Nice starting point for a HomeBuild Sidemount unit...

dive2dive2000 · 11th October 2005, 16:00

Does the Kiss have a Pendulium or axil flow?

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

The Pendulum design I have been told is very very efficient - in fact Gordan Smith, used it as the inspiration for the way he designed the Sport Kiss scrubber.

I have talked to Gordon about how that works and it is most effecient when it comes to a persons normal use even whilst working, at a constant high flow rate with high gas velocity is becomes slightly less efficient (basically the corners done get used).

Stuart

zepp · 11th October 2005, 16:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan)

I did have a thought about the design though... Is it effectively a pendulim rebreather? Do you breathe out, through the scrubber, into the counterlung, then breathe in the gas from the c-lung, back through the scrubber a second time?

If this was the case, I could see how a such a tiny scrubber would work, as it can work on the gas twice - any CO2 that passed through the first time (due to short dwell time perhaps) would get a second chance at being scrubbed?

Maybe I'm talking bollocks...

Si

You may be getting mixed up a bit with a 'pendulum' which uses just ONE hose, and no non-return valves. You basically breath down the hose , thro' the scrubber, into a bag, and then breath it back. This gives a massive dead space between the mouthpiece and scrubber. A bit like breathing through a long pipe, you can see that the last bit of exhaled breath will be breathed in again without been scrubbed.

zepp · 11th October 2005, 16:23

A two hose system ensures that 99.9% of exhaled gas goes through the scrubber, with only the small bit within the mouthpiece been rebreathed. using two C/L's effectively halves the speed of gas flow through the canister, thus allowing it to work more efficiantley, but yes, a single bag set-up allows the gas to be scrubbed twice, but at twice the velocity.............. I THINK

***schford*** · 11th October 2005, 16:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000)

According to Jeff Bozanic "Mastering Rebreathers" Cp 7 p. 172 par. 2

Pendulum axil flow canisters pass the gas back and fourth thru the canister allowing the absorbant at both ends to effectively scrub the gas. However, this design had a large dead space in the breathing hose, and its use has been discontinued in modern rebreather designs.

I was thinking about this on the way back in the car and was trying to think of the disdvantages and the one I came up with was well the scrubber will be very efficient but I bet you have too much dead gas space sort of like a really big snorkel and low and behold you had allready explained it!

***EBT*** · 11th October 2005, 17:02

24 Hour auction on a high value item. Very High fraud risk
Sellers account started in germany but is now selling in uk. Medium fraud risk
Item quotes in USD with DOT spec tanks, for sale in the UK. Medium fraud risk

All in all, I'd agree with Jonny, this one is a fraud.

zepp · 11th October 2005, 17:15

I know that ads on ebay can be reported if suspicious,but I have looked and cant find the link. I assume you have to say why it could be fake, ie everythink that wreckweasel has just said.

Crazyduck · 11th October 2005, 17:27

This is perhaps the more interestering design for quazi pendulmn-
OMG C-96 Oxygen rebreather.
http://www.nobubblediving.com/aro.c96.htm

The pictues show how the gas enters through the scrubber and back through the scrubber a slightly different locations and the hoses keep the gas separate for inbound and outbound.

Andrew

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

I was thinking about this on the way back in the car and was trying to think of the disdvantages and the one I came up with was well the scrubber will be very efficient but I bet you have too much dead gas space sort of like a really big snorkel and low and behold you had allready explained it!

Duncan Price · 12th October 2005, 09:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck)

This is perhaps the more interestering design for quazi pendulmn-
OMG C-96 Oxygen rebreather.
http://www.nobubblediving.com/aro.c96.htm

The pictues show how the gas enters through the scrubber and back through the scrubber a slightly different locations and the hoses keep the gas separate for inbound and outbound.

Andrew

It's not at all a pendulum. The P-96 (http://www.therebreathersite.nl/Zuurstofrebreathers/Italian/fotos_p96.htm ) which is a bit like the http://www.nobubblediving.com/aro-57.htm in design.

I built and tested a sidemounted pendulum based design using components from my P1SS rebreather. In order to keep the dead volume between the mouthpiece and scrubber to a minimum the counterlung was at the bottom of the white pipe. This made the WOB unacceptable unless you were horizontal. Never made it out of the pool and I went on to what finally became the D5 design which has the same basic layout as most other sidemount units I've seen - scrubber at base, counterlung on top - next to chest.

I'm still a fan of the pendulum design - a particularly if you put the O2 injection (for a pure O2 unit) or diluent add (for a mixed gas unit) right up at the mouthpiece - that way you can flush the dead volume of the single hose easily. It would be interesting to make a semi-closed pendulum sidemounted unit along these principles although I'm not a fan of SCR's.

Duncan

11th October 2005, 16:00	#11 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 793	Does the Kiss have a Pendulium or axil flow? Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) The Pendulum design I have been told is very very efficient - in fact Gordan Smith, used it as the inspiration for the way he designed the Sport Kiss scrubber. I have talked to Gordon about how that works and it is most effecient when it comes to a persons normal use even whilst working, at a constant high flow rate with high gas velocity is becomes slightly less efficient (basically the corners done get used). Stuart __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
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11th October 2005, 16:18	#12 (permalink)
zepp "Dyson with Death" daddy Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: midlands Posts: 276	Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan) I did have a thought about the design though... Is it effectively a pendulim rebreather? Do you breathe out, through the scrubber, into the counterlung, then breathe in the gas from the c-lung, back through the scrubber a second time? If this was the case, I could see how a such a tiny scrubber would work, as it can work on the gas twice - any CO2 that passed through the first time (due to short dwell time perhaps) would get a second chance at being scrubbed? Maybe I'm talking bollocks... Si You may be getting mixed up a bit with a 'pendulum' which uses just ONE hose, and no non-return valves. You basically breath down the hose , thro' the scrubber, into a bag, and then breath it back. This gives a massive dead space between the mouthpiece and scrubber. A bit like breathing through a long pipe, you can see that the last bit of exhaled breath will be breathed in again without been scrubbed.
(Offline)

11th October 2005, 16:23	#13 (permalink)
zepp "Dyson with Death" daddy Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: midlands Posts: 276	A two hose system ensures that 99.9% of exhaled gas goes through the scrubber, with only the small bit within the mouthpiece been rebreathed. using two C/L's effectively halves the speed of gas flow through the canister, thus allowing it to work more efficiantley, but yes, a single bag set-up allows the gas to be scrubbed twice, but at twice the velocity.............. I THINK
(Offline)

11th October 2005, 16:45	#14 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,687	Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000) According to Jeff Bozanic "Mastering Rebreathers" Cp 7 p. 172 par. 2 Pendulum axil flow canisters pass the gas back and fourth thru the canister allowing the absorbant at both ends to effectively scrub the gas. However, this design had a large dead space in the breathing hose, and its use has been discontinued in modern rebreather designs. I was thinking about this on the way back in the car and was trying to think of the disdvantages and the one I came up with was well the scrubber will be very efficient but I bet you have too much dead gas space sort of like a really big snorkel and low and behold you had allready explained it!
(Offline)

11th October 2005, 17:02	#15 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,996	24 Hour auction on a high value item. Very High fraud risk Sellers account started in germany but is now selling in uk. Medium fraud risk Item quotes in USD with DOT spec tanks, for sale in the UK. Medium fraud risk All in all, I'd agree with Jonny, this one is a fraud. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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11th October 2005, 17:15	#16 (permalink)
zepp "Dyson with Death" daddy Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: midlands Posts: 276	I know that ads on ebay can be reported if suspicious,but I have looked and cant find the link. I assume you have to say why it could be fake, ie everythink that wreckweasel has just said.
(Offline)

11th October 2005, 17:27	#17 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 712	something a little different This is perhaps the more interestering design for quazi pendulmn- OMG C-96 Oxygen rebreather. http://www.nobubblediving.com/aro.c96.htm The pictues show how the gas enters through the scrubber and back through the scrubber a slightly different locations and the hoses keep the gas separate for inbound and outbound. Andrew Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) I was thinking about this on the way back in the car and was trying to think of the disdvantages and the one I came up with was well the scrubber will be very efficient but I bet you have too much dead gas space sort of like a really big snorkel and low and behold you had allready explained it!
(Offline)

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