CCR and Spearfishing

Beckave · 19th January 2008, 21:40

I know you cant spearfish on a rebreather, but Im trying to plan a trip where I will be on CCR shooting video of spearfishing. Does anyone know what the laws are? Can Rebreather divers and spearfishers even be on the same vessel? Thanks in advance!

Becky

**Dave Sutton** · 19th January 2008, 21:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beckave)

I know you cant spearfish on a rebreather, but Im trying to plan a trip where I will be on CCR shooting video of spearfishing. Does anyone know what the laws are? Can Rebreather divers and spearfishers even be on the same vessel? Thanks in advance!

Becky

Spearfishing laws difffer everywhere. Here in NJ and RI, you *can* spearfish on a rebreather... and people do (on deeper wrecks for bottom fish) although it would be considered gauche to shoot striped bass in the littoral depths that can be dived freediving. Elsewhere the laws differ. So.... check local regs. There's no one sized fits all rule. I *think* Florida has a rule. Check.

A photographer ought to be exempt from the regs in any case.

Best,

Dave

.

Beckave · 19th January 2008, 21:51

Thanks Dave, but I dont want to spearfish on CCR, Im just wondering what Florida laws are reguarding being on the same boat.

**Dave Sutton** · 19th January 2008, 22:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beckave)

Thanks Dave, but I dont want to spearfish on CCR, Im just wondering what Florida laws are reguarding being on the same boat.

I understood your question, you had just not mentioned a state. My idea was that if it's legal to spearfish on a rebreather in a particular jurisdiction, then the photography of the spearfishing is a moot point. For Florida, I'd ask the Fish-Cops there in advance but my guess is that it'll not be a problem. The regs ought to be able to be downloaded from the Florida Fish-Cops website. I'm very sure that there's no need to have a 'sterile boat' for one person to spearfish and others to do whatever they like.

Best,

Dave

.

**kybrt** · 19th January 2008, 22:25

the guy driving the boat for silent world last week in key largo said if you have
Rebreather's and spearguns on same boat in fl youll get one. we didnt get into the exact regs or legal presumptions about the laws tho.

good luck,

barney · 19th January 2008, 22:27

Becky-
There is no problem being on the same boat. The regulations for the South Atlantic (NC - FL east coast beyond 3nm) specify its a possession issue (just for the snapper-grouper complex), and its an in-water possession issue at that:

Quote:

In the South Atlantic EEZ, a person using a rebreather may not harvest South Atlantic snapper-grouper with spearfishing gear. The possession of such snapper-grouper while in the water with a rebreather is prima facie evidence that such fish was harvested with spearfishing gear while using a rebreather.

In the Gulf of Mexico (i.e., beyond 9nm off Florida), there are no rebreather-specific spearfishing restrictions, so you could spear and film if you so chose.

Florida's regulations are a bit more fuzzy:

Quote:

(a) No person diving in state waters by means of a rebreather shall harvest any marine species. Use of rebreathers for any nonconsumptive purpose is allowed in state waters.

(b) The possession of any fish that has been harvested by a person diving in state waters by means of a rebreather, aboard a vessel fishing or at rest in state waters, shall constitute a violation of this subsection.

Regardless, as long as there are OC divers on board, you are fine.

Are you going out to film with the Headhunter guys?

If you are filming in other areas, let me know where and I can give you the specific regs.

**vidodivr** · 19th January 2008, 22:46

We dive on the same boats and spots while people spearfish all the time down here in Lauderdale. No one has said anything yet! I really don't think they have issue unless you are actually spearing.

**Dave Sutton** · 19th January 2008, 23:44

The EEZ (Economic Exclusion Zone) is FEDERAL water, outside of state water (the zone further than 3 miles offshore, but less than 200 NM). State rules prevail inside of the 3 NM boundry. Don't confuse the two. States have no jurisdiction offshore. Transiting in to the dock with your catch taken in federal waters can pose some issues.

Here's an example that I deal with every time I run a freediving trip here: Fish (Striped Bass) shot in NY waters around Montauk Point (legally) cannot be transited thru the EEC (sport fishing for Striped Bass is illegal in the EEZ, as is posession) on the way back to RI (where they can legally be posessed also). We NEED to run thru the EEZ to get from Montauk to RI, so it's an issue. Now if we run towards Connecticut we can avoid transit thru the EEZ, *but* we then transit thru Connecticut waters where you may posess Striped Bass but NOT those taken by spearfishing (spearing bass there is not legal according to CT state regs)..... so we're still screwed.

<got all that?>

Talk to the locals: They will have the local word. Based on what I read above in the Florida regs, it's not an issue to do what you want to do.

Dave

.

**Dsix36** · 20th January 2008, 00:08

I have been diving Rebreather's on several boats in the S. Florida area for over 2 years now. I have been photographing the harvest of Lobster and fish by snare, net, stick, and spearguns on many many occassions and this issue has never even been brought up by any of the Captains or other divers. I have even been "buddied up" with a spearfisher (needless to say, this sucked).

I am taking pictures and that is all. Oh yeah, and having a good time!

barney · 20th January 2008, 00:42

For Florida, there are three jurisdictions at play -- the South Atlantic Fishery Management Council, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council, and the State of Florida.
I posted the SAFMC regs applicable to Florida, as well as the State of Florida regs, and mentioned there are no rebreather issues in the Gulf of Mexico EEZ off Florida (which is 9nm and greater, not 3nm).
As long as you are in continuous transit from federal waters, states cannot enforce their fishery regulations based on fish harvested in the EEZ. Keep in mind, state enforcement agents CAN have jurisdiction offshore if given the authority by the feds, as is the case in the Gulf of Mexico for Florida Marine Patrol officers (but only to enforce federal regs in federal waters).
Fishing regulations can be very confusing, and in some situations LEOs might get confused.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

The EEZ (Economic Exclusion Zone) is FEDERAL water, outside of state water (the zone further than 3 miles offshore, but less than 200 NM). State rules prevail inside of the 3 NM boundry. Don't confuse the two. States have no jurisdiction offshore. Transiting in to the dock with your catch taken in federal waters can pose some issues.

Here's an example that I deal with every time I run a freediving trip here: Fish (Striped Bass) shot in NY waters around Montauk Point (legally) cannot be transited thru the EEC (sport fishing for Striped Bass is illegal in the EEZ, as is posession) on the way back to RI (where they can legally be posessed also). We NEED to run thru the EEZ to get from Montauk to RI, so it's an issue. Now if we run towards Connecticut we can avoid transit thru the EEZ, *but* we then transit thru Connecticut waters where you may posess Striped Bass but NOT those taken by spearfishing (spearing bass there is not legal according to CT state regs)..... so we're still screwed.

<got all that?>

Talk to the locals: They will have the local word. Based on what I read above in the Florida regs, it's not an issue to do what you want to do.

Dave

.

19th January 2008, 21:40	#1 (permalink)
Beckave New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tampa / Philly Posts: 8	CCR and Spearfishing I know you cant spearfish on a rebreather, but Im trying to plan a trip where I will be on CCR shooting video of spearfishing. Does anyone know what the laws are? Can Rebreather divers and spearfishers even be on the same vessel? Thanks in advance! Becky __________________ Becky Kagan Liquid Productions, LLC
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19th January 2008, 21:46	#2 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: CCR and Spearfishing Quote: (Originally Posted by Beckave) I know you cant spearfish on a rebreather, but Im trying to plan a trip where I will be on CCR shooting video of spearfishing. Does anyone know what the laws are? Can Rebreather divers and spearfishers even be on the same vessel? Thanks in advance! Becky Spearfishing laws difffer everywhere. Here in NJ and RI, you can spearfish on a rebreather... and people do (on deeper wrecks for bottom fish) although it would be considered gauche to shoot striped bass in the littoral depths that can be dived freediving. Elsewhere the laws differ. So.... check local regs. There's no one sized fits all rule. I think Florida has a rule. Check. A photographer ought to be exempt from the regs in any case. Best, Dave . __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
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19th January 2008, 21:51	#3 (permalink)
Beckave New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tampa / Philly Posts: 8	Re: CCR and Spearfishing Thanks Dave, but I dont want to spearfish on CCR, Im just wondering what Florida laws are reguarding being on the same boat. __________________ Becky Kagan Liquid Productions, LLC
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19th January 2008, 22:12	#4 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: CCR and Spearfishing Quote: (Originally Posted by Beckave) Thanks Dave, but I dont want to spearfish on CCR, Im just wondering what Florida laws are reguarding being on the same boat. I understood your question, you had just not mentioned a state. My idea was that if it's legal to spearfish on a rebreather in a particular jurisdiction, then the photography of the spearfishing is a moot point. For Florida, I'd ask the Fish-Cops there in advance but my guess is that it'll not be a problem. The regs ought to be able to be downloaded from the Florida Fish-Cops website. I'm very sure that there's no need to have a 'sterile boat' for one person to spearfish and others to do whatever they like. Best, Dave . __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
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19th January 2008, 22:25	#5 (permalink)
kybrt too legit to quit Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Neuw Yawk Posts: 233	Re: CCR and Spearfishing the guy driving the boat for silent world last week in key largo said if you have Rebreather's and spearguns on same boat in fl youll get one. we didnt get into the exact regs or legal presumptions about the laws tho. good luck, __________________ Marv Fidelis Ad Mortem www.diveboatkaren.com
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19th January 2008, 22:27	#6 (permalink)
barney Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 224	Re: CCR and Spearfishing Becky- There is no problem being on the same boat. The regulations for the South Atlantic (NC - FL east coast beyond 3nm) specify its a possession issue (just for the snapper-grouper complex), and its an in-water possession issue at that: Quote: In the South Atlantic EEZ, a person using a rebreather may not harvest South Atlantic snapper-grouper with spearfishing gear. The possession of such snapper-grouper while in the water with a rebreather is prima facie evidence that such fish was harvested with spearfishing gear while using a rebreather. In the Gulf of Mexico (i.e., beyond 9nm off Florida), there are no rebreather-specific spearfishing restrictions, so you could spear and film if you so chose. Florida's regulations are a bit more fuzzy: Quote: (a) No person diving in state waters by means of a rebreather shall harvest any marine species. Use of rebreathers for any nonconsumptive purpose is allowed in state waters. (b) The possession of any fish that has been harvested by a person diving in state waters by means of a rebreather, aboard a vessel fishing or at rest in state waters, shall constitute a violation of this subsection. Regardless, as long as there are OC divers on board, you are fine. Are you going out to film with the Headhunter guys? If you are filming in other areas, let me know where and I can give you the specific regs. __________________ Michael C. Barnette ASSOCIATION OF UNDERWATER EXPLORERS Last edited by barney : 19th January 2008 at 22:30.
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19th January 2008, 22:46	#7 (permalink)
vidodivr swims in fishes toilets Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Florida/Michigan Posts: 471	Re: CCR and Spearfishing We dive on the same boats and spots while people spearfish all the time down here in Lauderdale. No one has said anything yet! I really don't think they have issue unless you are actually spearing. __________________ Have a good one, Rob LaLonde CK #087 Narked@90 frame URM
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19th January 2008, 23:44	#8 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: CCR and Spearfishing The EEZ (Economic Exclusion Zone) is FEDERAL water, outside of state water (the zone further than 3 miles offshore, but less than 200 NM). State rules prevail inside of the 3 NM boundry. Don't confuse the two. States have no jurisdiction offshore. Transiting in to the dock with your catch taken in federal waters can pose some issues. Here's an example that I deal with every time I run a freediving trip here: Fish (Striped Bass) shot in NY waters around Montauk Point (legally) cannot be transited thru the EEC (sport fishing for Striped Bass is illegal in the EEZ, as is posession) on the way back to RI (where they can legally be posessed also). We NEED to run thru the EEZ to get from Montauk to RI, so it's an issue. Now if we run towards Connecticut we can avoid transit thru the EEZ, but we then transit thru Connecticut waters where you may posess Striped Bass but NOT those taken by spearfishing (spearing bass there is not legal according to CT state regs)..... so we're still screwed. <got all that?> Talk to the locals: They will have the local word. Based on what I read above in the Florida regs, it's not an issue to do what you want to do. Dave . __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled. Last edited by Dave Sutton : 19th January 2008 at 23:48.
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20th January 2008, 00:08	#9 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: florida Posts: 856	Re: CCR and Spearfishing I have been diving Rebreather's on several boats in the S. Florida area for over 2 years now. I have been photographing the harvest of Lobster and fish by snare, net, stick, and spearguns on many many occassions and this issue has never even been brought up by any of the Captains or other divers. I have even been "buddied up" with a spearfisher (needless to say, this sucked). I am taking pictures and that is all. Oh yeah, and having a good time! __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Offline)

20th January 2008, 00:42	#10 (permalink)
barney Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 224	Re: CCR and Spearfishing For Florida, there are three jurisdictions at play -- the South Atlantic Fishery Management Council, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council, and the State of Florida. I posted the SAFMC regs applicable to Florida, as well as the State of Florida regs, and mentioned there are no rebreather issues in the Gulf of Mexico EEZ off Florida (which is 9nm and greater, not 3nm). As long as you are in continuous transit from federal waters, states cannot enforce their fishery regulations based on fish harvested in the EEZ. Keep in mind, state enforcement agents CAN have jurisdiction offshore if given the authority by the feds, as is the case in the Gulf of Mexico for Florida Marine Patrol officers (but only to enforce federal regs in federal waters). Fishing regulations can be very confusing, and in some situations LEOs might get confused. Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) The EEZ (Economic Exclusion Zone) is FEDERAL water, outside of state water (the zone further than 3 miles offshore, but less than 200 NM). State rules prevail inside of the 3 NM boundry. Don't confuse the two. States have no jurisdiction offshore. Transiting in to the dock with your catch taken in federal waters can pose some issues. Here's an example that I deal with every time I run a freediving trip here: Fish (Striped Bass) shot in NY waters around Montauk Point (legally) cannot be transited thru the EEC (sport fishing for Striped Bass is illegal in the EEZ, as is posession) on the way back to RI (where they can legally be posessed also). We NEED to run thru the EEZ to get from Montauk to RI, so it's an issue. Now if we run towards Connecticut we can avoid transit thru the EEZ, but we then transit thru Connecticut waters where you may posess Striped Bass but NOT those taken by spearfishing (spearing bass there is not legal according to CT state regs)..... so we're still screwed. <got all that?> Talk to the locals: They will have the local word. Based on what I read above in the Florida regs, it's not an issue to do what you want to do. Dave . __________________ Michael C. Barnette ASSOCIATION OF UNDERWATER EXPLORERS
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