KLM just became anti-diver

Dutchy

A similar density to a known explosive?

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PhilSiswick

You can use it to restrain people - I assume they'd take zip ties off you too (though probably not, as that would imply some level of consistency in policy and implementation. All evidence would imply that they make it up as they go along ).

Ryanair made my mother take christmas crackers out of her hold baggage, as they are 'explosives'. No such treatment from BA.

Cheers,

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Phil (WSKD 0001)

I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007

The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh

www.hugsac.org.uk

AD_ward9

Air France and KLM are now one company, but with two different brand names.

100€/kg is plain theft/fraud, as it is way above what is on their web site.

Alex

CCR900

I once got charged €50 for 10kgs over which I didn't think was too bad until I saw the guy slip it in his pocket. Alitalia that one - Sardinha.

Air lines are just like any other crack dealer in the market, they've got what you want and they know it.

As fuel prices climb they cry their little hearts out but in reality they've locked in the fuel prices for next couple of years, so as fuel prices rise the cash the diference.

As someone pointed out, plan in advance and ship it before hand, or just rent when you get there, if you can.

Fil

mempilot

So you reported the theft, right?

They cry their little hearts out like any other industry reliant on fossil fuels. They just know that if they raise the ticket price enough to cover the cost of the fuel, so many people would stop traveling by air and they would go out of business. They make up for it on those that carry heavy equipment.

The locked in fuel pricing you speak of is called "fuel hedging". The cheap fuel hedges have all run out years ago. The hedges they are working off now are quite high in price. As they forecast the future hedges, the profit margin is looking negative. They are banking money as you say now to ensure survivability in the near future.

This is no different than the fuel station owner that reflects the increase in cost per barrel into his immediate pump prices. He is also working on a hedge, but banks profit immediately. It's called business. Most of these stations are privately owned franchises. Believe it or not, most stations in the US sell fuel at a very thin profit margin. It is a loss leader to get you into buy the real rip off: food, soda, candy, etc... If you don't believe me, talk to an owner over beers. My brother used to do financial analysis for some Conoco owners.

If the airlines were charging you an extra 100 for the ticket price, but not for the baggage, would you as a diver carrying all that gear be whining? Probably not. The other passengers just going about normal travel would. It's all about perception and where you get sacked.

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Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"

AD_ward9

It is not just an extra $100: if the airline charge an extra $100 for dive kit, like many discount airlines do (Globespan, Norwegian Air, Zoom), that is OK. We are not whining about that, but about plain fraud and theft.

The issue here is the older European airline charges are totally out of order through the use of caps that are too low: DrMike reported paying over $3000 on one flight, one way, for dive kit. Others are reporting charges of 100 Euro per kilo. Say a diver has 60kg of kit, of which 20kg is free (in Europe). If 100 Euro/kg is applied to the rest, that is 4,000 Euro on top of the ticket price! This is not on their web sites. Customers are deceived until they are hit with the charge.

Now compare that with carrying people. If an average person is 120kg check in (man dressed in a coat, 20kg check in, 10kg carry on), and was charged 100 Euro/kg, he would pay 12,000 Euro for a ticket ($17,000). If the airlines try charging that to any group, even in first class, we would see their revenues wash down the toilet and they would all be bust. So why are these astronomical charges being applied to divers? Answer: divers clearly have more disposable income than the average, so extract it out of them.

I do wish every success to the good discount airlines: they are knocking the pants off the old airlines on every score that matters:

1. Cost, including that of bags. On Zoom dive kit is free (even 150kg), Globespan charge $60, Norwegian Air charged $30, Evergreen was free.
2. Baggage arriving: the four I mentioned at least delivered my bags, which is better than BA and Flybee managed to do (they lost them 20 times in 21 trips). I am sure that when a bag does go astray, they can find it faster too: the last trip I got rerouted onto Flybee due to a late connection on SAS, it took them five days to deliver from Birmingam to Edinburgh. A previous BA trip took 8 weeks to return my bags. Flybee are a BA offshoot.
3. Seat size. On Zoom, Evergreen and Globespan the seats were business seats for an economy price.
4. On time arrival. A journey from St Petersburg to Edinburgh on Sunday on SAS and Flybee took 32 hours, and loss of all bags for 5 days.
5. Security. Zoom, Globespan, Norwegian Air and Evergreen do not go via hubs that employ the thugs and pervert types for security, such as at Amsterdam. Apart from items being taken from baggage, at least the TSA screeners are ordinary people and have been trained. In contrast, Amsterdam security sometimes brings to mind the Stanford Prison Experiment: what happens when you put untrained people into power.

Budget airlines are where the wise travellers go. Pity KLM joined the "bad" group: they used to be excellent. Now they face problems of their pervert security screeners at Amsterdam and their decision to stop taking diver's luggage over 20kg even with a charge, puts them in with BA and Flybee for service level.

Sending stuff in advance by freight is hopeless: I have been hit by Customs charges this year of 130% of the cost of the goods, and 9 months to clear one item. Carnets do not work for unaccompanied baggage. For any serious tech diving, renting it on arrival is just not an option.

Vote with our feet. Once the divers are gone these old airlines will pick on another group. Eventually when target groups are too thin, they will think about who pays their salaries, and what service level their customers expect for that.


Alex

mempilot

I'm not sure why someone would pay 3000 to take it on an airline. That is obviously a lot more than freight would cost via DHL and the kit would probably get handled a lot better. It sounds like your airline is telling you they don't want your freight in their hold.

Believe me, I am with you on this. I'm just trying to explain the difference in revenue models between the legacy carriers and the new low cost budget startups. Their cost structures are completely different and therefore their charge sceme will be as well.

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Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"

Ant Slegg

I flew Luxembourg, London-Gatwick, Inverness, Stromness in October with BA.
At check in my two bags (as usual clothes are considered as packing to protect the dive kit) weighed in at a total of 55kg.
One phone call (with the words SPORTS EQUIPMENT in the conversation and the lot went for free).

So maybe the European airport of choice should be Luxembourg?

Of course LoganAir (BA Scotland) sent it all on to Shetland and it took three days to get it back but that's another story!

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Ant' S
Learning to dive since 1990...

CCR900

Urrr nope, should have done but I just wanted to get home and not spend the night chatting to the caribinari, yup what a pussy.

As for jet fuel hedging, guys over here are still at it.

Fil

Ivon

I flew with Alitalia last week from Stansted to Regio Calabria, in Italy. I was 10kg over and they charged me an extra 80 euros, not bad i thought.

One think I will note is that i never mentioned dive equipment.

The flight was Stansted - Rome - Regio Calabria. There were passengers who were purchasing a ticket at the counter when I went to pay my excess. They were charged 500 euros just for Stansted to Rome! I paid 130 euros booking a week before for the full distance, now who was shafted!!! And both planes still had plenty of empty seats, Rome to Calabria had 40 people on max, rows of 4 seats at a time empty.