KLM just became anti-diver

mempilot · 9th December 2007, 23:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

I thought piece concept is mostly applied flying from europ to the west (flying AA for example, or delta, to USA, or iberia to dominican)
(2 * 23 kg free, each bag between 23 and 32 extra $50/flight)
weight concept mostly flying from europ to east:... max 20 kg and extra payment for a second bag 20 kg..)

just my experience

paul

This is pulled right from their website:

• If the abbreviation PC appears in the ‘allow’ or ‘baggage’ box, the piece concept applies to your baggage allowance. The table below states the number of pieces of baggage that you can take with you free of charge. This concept only applies to flights to or from:

• USA, USA territories, Canada, Mexico and Brazil
• Air France flights to or from Papeete, Havana, Santo Domingo, Punta Cana, Madagascar, West Africa and Djibouti
• Direct KLM flights to or from Ghana (Accra), Ethiopia (Addis Ababa), Kenya (Nairobi), Sudan (Khartoum), Tanzania (Kilimanjaro and Dar Es Salaam) and Uganda (Entebbe)
• Air France/KLM flights to or from Egypt (Cairo) and Nigeria (Lagos, Kano and Abuja)

AD_ward9 · 12th December 2007, 10:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Alex, the above only applies to WC (weight concept) and not PC (piece concept).

I am based in Europe, so all destinations I fly to regularly use the Weight Concept. That is now very severely restricted (20kg per person), plus 150 Euro extra for a 20Kg piece of dive gear.

A Platinum lifetime card gives 20Kg extra.

My dry suit alone weights 20kg when put in a suitcase!

There is no rounding up. 1kg is now causing people to have to dispose of items/fit it into coat pockets/pay a lot extra (Lufthansa and KLM, both did this).

The cheapo airlines like Globespan and especially Zoom, are now a much better deal for divers.

Alex

PCDiver · 12th December 2007, 10:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

I am based in Europe, so all destinations I fly to regularly use the Weight Concept. That is now very severely restricted (20kg per person), plus 150 Euro extra for a 20Kg piece of dive gear.

A Platinum lifetime card gives 20Kg extra.

My dry suit alone weights 20kg when put in a suitcase!

There is no rounding up. 1kg is now causing people to have to dispose of items/fit it into coat pockets/pay a lot extra (Lufthansa and KLM, both did this).

The cheapo airlines like Globespan and especially Zoom, are now a much better deal for divers.

Alex

How much you pay for the dive gear (weight concept) depends on the zone you fly too. Flying to bonaire economy for example gives you
25 kg (5 extra) and 20 kg dive equipment. The dive equipment surcharge is only 20€. Not bad at all.

The 150€ you refer to applies to the Piece Concept not the weight concept.(Overbagage sportuitrustingen).

I'd wish all airlines were as diverfriendly as KLM.
Singapore airlines: no extra allowance for divers anymore and 70€ per kg one-way!!

Did they ask you to empty your pockets??? I don't think that is legal.

decoweenie · 12th December 2007, 10:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver)

Singapore airlines: no extra allowance for divers anymore and 70€ per kg one-way!!

WHAT ???

That's ~US$100 per kg, or US$50 per pound.

PCDiver · 12th December 2007, 11:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

WHAT ???

That's ~US$100 per kg, or US$50 per pound.

Yep. I'm going to have fun getting our rebreathers and video stuff from AMS to Bali. They give everybody 5 Kg extra without charge, so that helps a bit, but once you are over your 25 (eco) or 35 (bus) they will charge you 70€.

Shipping a set of rebreather tanks (AMS - Bali) would cost me based on the overweight charges from sin airlines 1400€. I can buy 6 sets of rebreather tanks for that price!!!

Somebody should inform these airlines that divers are frequent travellers, i.e. valued customers, not open wallets.

decoweenie · 12th December 2007, 11:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver)

Shipping a set of rebreather tanks (AMS - Bali) would cost me based on the overweight charges from sin airlines 1400€.

Just UPS a set of tanks and leave them behind / sell them to the Operators for that price...

mempilot · 12th December 2007, 14:08

Crate and ship. Give the revenue to someone else.

**Freef** · 13th December 2007, 21:58

One of the budget airlines, I think Ryan Air, are charging for any luggage going in the hold, if you want a printed ticket instead of online booking, and just about anything they can get away with.

As for airlines not making a profit, how can the cheapies sell tickets for a couple of quid???

mempilot · 14th December 2007, 00:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by Freef)

As for airlines not making a profit, how can the cheapies sell tickets for a couple of quid

Labor, maintenance, bricks and mortar, etc...When the crew members and mechanics are on working for sub-industry wages, you subcontract your maintenance to 3rd world countries, and you don't own/maintain multiple hubs/gate space around the world, you can charge a lot less for a ticket.The average length of service of an employee at KLM is over ten years. On a payscale labor system, their salary is quite a bit higher than someone flying the same size aircraft for a fraction of that. The same is true for the mechanics. This is fallout from the labor supply and demand curve being way out of balance. There are too many peeps to fill too little jobs. Therefore, the starting and average wage at startup discount airlines is drastically lower than the airlines that have labor unions decades old.Good for the passenger that wants a cheap ticket though.

jaap · 8th January 2008, 09:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

WHAT ???

That's ~US$100 per kg, or US$50 per pound.

Not dive related but we got an even nicer unnegotiable figure from the staff at the Air France counter in Dubai this weekend. 20 kg sharp, then 100€/kg...

BTW, happened to have a roll of office tape in my hand luggage that I had to hand over at the screening. Any ideas why that is not allowed?

9th December 2007, 23:49	#31 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,469	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) I thought piece concept is mostly applied flying from europ to the west (flying AA for example, or delta, to USA, or iberia to dominican) (2 * 23 kg free, each bag between 23 and 32 extra $50/flight) weight concept mostly flying from europ to east:... max 20 kg and extra payment for a second bag 20 kg..) just my experience paul This is pulled right from their website: • If the abbreviation PC appears in the ‘allow’ or ‘baggage’ box, the piece concept applies to your baggage allowance. The table below states the number of pieces of baggage that you can take with you free of charge. This concept only applies to flights to or from: • USA, USA territories, Canada, Mexico and Brazil • Air France flights to or from Papeete, Havana, Santo Domingo, Punta Cana, Madagascar, West Africa and Djibouti • Direct KLM flights to or from Ghana (Accra), Ethiopia (Addis Ababa), Kenya (Nairobi), Sudan (Khartoum), Tanzania (Kilimanjaro and Dar Es Salaam) and Uganda (Entebbe) • Air France/KLM flights to or from Egypt (Cairo) and Nigeria (Lagos, Kano and Abuja) __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Online)

12th December 2007, 10:19	#32 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,862	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Alex, the above only applies to WC (weight concept) and not PC (piece concept). I am based in Europe, so all destinations I fly to regularly use the Weight Concept. That is now very severely restricted (20kg per person), plus 150 Euro extra for a 20Kg piece of dive gear. A Platinum lifetime card gives 20Kg extra. My dry suit alone weights 20kg when put in a suitcase! There is no rounding up. 1kg is now causing people to have to dispose of items/fit it into coat pockets/pay a lot extra (Lufthansa and KLM, both did this). The cheapo airlines like Globespan and especially Zoom, are now a much better deal for divers. Alex
(Offline)

12th December 2007, 10:43	#33 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 968	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) I am based in Europe, so all destinations I fly to regularly use the Weight Concept. That is now very severely restricted (20kg per person), plus 150 Euro extra for a 20Kg piece of dive gear. A Platinum lifetime card gives 20Kg extra. My dry suit alone weights 20kg when put in a suitcase! There is no rounding up. 1kg is now causing people to have to dispose of items/fit it into coat pockets/pay a lot extra (Lufthansa and KLM, both did this). The cheapo airlines like Globespan and especially Zoom, are now a much better deal for divers. Alex How much you pay for the dive gear (weight concept) depends on the zone you fly too. Flying to bonaire economy for example gives you 25 kg (5 extra) and 20 kg dive equipment. The dive equipment surcharge is only 20€. Not bad at all. The 150€ you refer to applies to the Piece Concept not the weight concept.(Overbagage sportuitrustingen). I'd wish all airlines were as diverfriendly as KLM. Singapore airlines: no extra allowance for divers anymore and 70€ per kg one-way!! Did they ask you to empty your pockets??? I don't think that is legal.
(Online)

12th December 2007, 10:58	#34 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver) Singapore airlines: no extra allowance for divers anymore and 70€ per kg one-way!! WHAT ??? That's ~US$100 per kg, or US$50 per pound.
(Offline)

12th December 2007, 11:04	#35 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 968	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) WHAT ??? That's ~US$100 per kg, or US$50 per pound. Yep. I'm going to have fun getting our rebreathers and video stuff from AMS to Bali. They give everybody 5 Kg extra without charge, so that helps a bit, but once you are over your 25 (eco) or 35 (bus) they will charge you 70€. Shipping a set of rebreather tanks (AMS - Bali) would cost me based on the overweight charges from sin airlines 1400€. I can buy 6 sets of rebreather tanks for that price!!! Somebody should inform these airlines that divers are frequent travellers, i.e. valued customers, not open wallets.
(Online)

12th December 2007, 11:16	#36 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver) Shipping a set of rebreather tanks (AMS - Bali) would cost me based on the overweight charges from sin airlines 1400€. Just UPS a set of tanks and leave them behind / sell them to the Operators for that price...
(Offline)

12th December 2007, 14:08	#37 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,469	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Crate and ship. Give the revenue to someone else. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Online)

13th December 2007, 21:58	#38 (permalink)
Freef Custom Title Disallowed! Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Land of the Freef, UK. Posts: 1,353	Re: KLM just became anti-diver One of the budget airlines, I think Ryan Air, are charging for any luggage going in the hold, if you want a printed ticket instead of online booking, and just about anything they can get away with. As for airlines not making a profit, how can the cheapies sell tickets for a couple of quid??? __________________ David. Currently owner of two differently sized ankles.
(Offline)

14th December 2007, 00:16	#39 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,469	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Quote: (Originally Posted by Freef) As for airlines not making a profit, how can the cheapies sell tickets for a couple of quid Labor, maintenance, bricks and mortar, etc...When the crew members and mechanics are on working for sub-industry wages, you subcontract your maintenance to 3rd world countries, and you don't own/maintain multiple hubs/gate space around the world, you can charge a lot less for a ticket.The average length of service of an employee at KLM is over ten years. On a payscale labor system, their salary is quite a bit higher than someone flying the same size aircraft for a fraction of that. The same is true for the mechanics. This is fallout from the labor supply and demand curve being way out of balance. There are too many peeps to fill too little jobs. Therefore, the starting and average wage at startup discount airlines is drastically lower than the airlines that have labor unions decades old.Good for the passenger that wants a cheap ticket though. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Online)

8th January 2008, 09:34	#40 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 451	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) WHAT ??? That's ~US$100 per kg, or US$50 per pound. Not dive related but we got an even nicer unnegotiable figure from the staff at the Air France counter in Dubai this weekend. 20 kg sharp, then 100€/kg... BTW, happened to have a roll of office tape in my hand luggage that I had to hand over at the screening. Any ideas why that is not allowed? __________________ My initials: JAAP
(Online)

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