Picking the right rebreather (for me)

ScubaAl · 22nd November 2007, 15:26

Hello Everyone,

I have been looking at making the move to Rebreather diving. Been reading here on Rebreather World, and the RBW library, also other places I find information. Downloaded the Inspiration manual and have been reading it.
Seems the more I read, the harder the decision becomes.

eCCR or mCCR, I see advantages and disadvantages to both. Cost is going to be one of the most important factors I must consider. Because of this I have been looking at used units and the reconditioned Inspirations. I also have given some thought to KISS, but the depth limit of the units could rule them out of the running.
Today I was looking into the Megaladon COPIS and found this
Quote
"This removes the traditional
depth limit restriction of constant-flow manual CCR’s.
This depth limit is due to the oxygen regulator being
fixed so it cannot compensate as depth increases. This is
important or the oxygen flow will increase as depth
increases, resulting in a hazardous hyperoxic situation.
But by preventing the regulator from compensating as
depth increases, the regulator will no longer allow
oxygen flow — nor will the diver be able to manually
add oxygen at the depth that is the same as the
interstage pressure (IP). This is where the diver would
plug in off-board oxygen supply to the OTS CL mixed
gas bypass valve. Now the diver can carefully add
oxygen manually to the loop to maintain the PO2"
So this could be and option for my type of diving. Does anyone have experience with this unit and procedure?
Most of the diving I would be doing is on wrecks in Lake Superior. With depths from 150ft to about 300ft. Some traveling would also be involved from time to time.
TIA for any information you can pass along.
Al

**Dsix36** · 22nd November 2007, 15:31

In the end you must pick one that you are comfortable with and will match your needs.

Just remember to think about the availability of training, service, and parts where you are located.

JonORunde · 22nd November 2007, 15:33

I'm using my stock-COPIS, and this has a IP of about 10-11ish bar.

That means I can safely go to about 90-100m (300-330 feet?) before I have any problems with oxygen not flowing.

If I need to go deeper, I simply add another bottle of O2, with a normal 1. stage (read: a S40 of O2 that also can be used for bailout), and plug this directly in to the lung.
All manually added O2 now comes from this bottle, and the steady flow comes from the internal. This just means I have to press the button more often when very deep.

works for me

I bring plenty of bailout anyways, so the S40 of O2 would have been carried no matter what.

jon o

Mark Chase · 22nd November 2007, 16:08

Standard KISS is good for 90-100m too How deep do you want to go? There is a smaller oraface and a more powerfull first stage spring for the KISS which ill be having a go with prior to my 127m planned dive on the KISS next Aug.

ATB

Mark

ScubaAl · 22nd November 2007, 16:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonORunde)

I'm using my stock-COPIS, and this has a IP of about 10-11ish bar.

That means I can safely go to about 90-100m (300-330 feet?) before I have any problems with oxygen not flowing.

If I need to go deeper, I simply add another bottle of O2, with a normal 1. stage (read: a S40 of O2 that also can be used for bailout), and plug this directly in to the lung.
All manually added O2 now comes from this bottle, and the steady flow comes from the internal. This just means I have to press the button more often when very deep.

works for me

I bring plenty of bailout anyways, so the S40 of O2 would have been carried no matter what.

jon o

Great information, Thanks. Hope to get to Norway someday. My Grand parents came from there in the 1920's My Grandma made many trips back to her home in Bergen. I have several old calenders with pictures of the town she gave me years ago. A lot of Norwegians here in Minnesota.

Al

ScubaAl · 22nd November 2007, 16:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

In the end you must pick one that you are comfortable with and will match your needs.

Just remember to think about the availability of training, service, and parts where you are located.

Thanks for the reply. I agree 100%. As far as training and service, we have one of the best instructors here in Minnesota, Ron Benson. Spoke with him just the other day.
Thanks again, Al

ScubaAl · 22nd November 2007, 16:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Standard KISS is good for 90-100m too How deep do you want to go? There is a smaller oraface and a more powerfull first stage spring for the KISS which ill be having a go with prior to my 127m planned dive on the KISS next Aug.

ATB

Mark

At this point in time, I believe 100m would be my max. Got to draw the line somewhere, right?
Thanks Mark, Al

Skipbreather · 22nd November 2007, 16:24

I’ve got to believe you’ve done this, but on the outside chance you have not: Run across town to Going Under Dive Center in Maple Grove & talk w/ Ron Benson. He teaches KISS, Inspo, and Meg. I have zero doubt he can help you decide which way to look and answer questions you didn’t know you had.

ScubaAl · 22nd November 2007, 16:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Skipbreather)

I’ve got to believe you’ve done this, but on the outside chance you have not: Run across town to Going Under Dive Center in Maple Grove & talk w/ Ron Benson. He teaches KISS, Inspo, and Meg. I have zero doubt he can help you decide which way to look and answer questions you didn’t know you had.

I have known Ron for 10yrs or so. Did my trimix class back in 1999 with GUDC and have been lucky enough to dive wrecks like the Gunilda and Kamaloops with Ron.
Thanks, Al

sddiverrob · 22nd November 2007, 17:29

If your motivated you can add off-board O2 that you manually add to any mCCR its simply a matter of method depending on which mCCR you are adding it to. Once you've added off-board manually injectable O2 you can get past the O2 flow being the depth limiting factor on the mCCRs.

Pick a unit that you are comfortable with mCCR or eCCR, can get training for, and can afford. Welcome to the silent world.

Rob

22nd November 2007, 15:26	#1 (permalink)
ScubaAl New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bloomington, Minnesota Posts: 34	Picking the right rebreather (for me) Hello Everyone, I have been looking at making the move to Rebreather diving. Been reading here on Rebreather World, and the RBW library, also other places I find information. Downloaded the Inspiration manual and have been reading it. Seems the more I read, the harder the decision becomes. eCCR or mCCR, I see advantages and disadvantages to both. Cost is going to be one of the most important factors I must consider. Because of this I have been looking at used units and the reconditioned Inspirations. I also have given some thought to KISS, but the depth limit of the units could rule them out of the running. Today I was looking into the Megaladon COPIS and found this Quote "This removes the traditional depth limit restriction of constant-flow manual CCR’s. This depth limit is due to the oxygen regulator being fixed so it cannot compensate as depth increases. This is important or the oxygen flow will increase as depth increases, resulting in a hazardous hyperoxic situation. But by preventing the regulator from compensating as depth increases, the regulator will no longer allow oxygen flow — nor will the diver be able to manually add oxygen at the depth that is the same as the interstage pressure (IP). This is where the diver would plug in off-board oxygen supply to the OTS CL mixed gas bypass valve. Now the diver can carefully add oxygen manually to the loop to maintain the PO2" So this could be and option for my type of diving. Does anyone have experience with this unit and procedure? Most of the diving I would be doing is on wrecks in Lake Superior. With depths from 150ft to about 300ft. Some traveling would also be involved from time to time. TIA for any information you can pass along. Al
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 15:31	#2 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: florida Posts: 856	Re: Picking the right rebreather (for me) In the end you must pick one that you are comfortable with and will match your needs. Just remember to think about the availability of training, service, and parts where you are located. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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22nd November 2007, 15:33	#3 (permalink)
JonORunde New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 86	Re: Picking the right rebreather (for me) I'm using my stock-COPIS, and this has a IP of about 10-11ish bar. That means I can safely go to about 90-100m (300-330 feet?) before I have any problems with oxygen not flowing. If I need to go deeper, I simply add another bottle of O2, with a normal 1. stage (read: a S40 of O2 that also can be used for bailout), and plug this directly in to the lung. All manually added O2 now comes from this bottle, and the steady flow comes from the internal. This just means I have to press the button more often when very deep. works for me I bring plenty of bailout anyways, so the S40 of O2 would have been carried no matter what. jon o
(Offline)

22nd November 2007, 16:08	#4 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,410	Re: Picking the right rebreather (for me) Standard KISS is good for 90-100m too How deep do you want to go? There is a smaller oraface and a more powerfull first stage spring for the KISS which ill be having a go with prior to my 127m planned dive on the KISS next Aug. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 16:15	#5 (permalink)
ScubaAl New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bloomington, Minnesota Posts: 34	Re: Picking the right rebreather (for me) Quote: (Originally Posted by JonORunde) I'm using my stock-COPIS, and this has a IP of about 10-11ish bar. That means I can safely go to about 90-100m (300-330 feet?) before I have any problems with oxygen not flowing. If I need to go deeper, I simply add another bottle of O2, with a normal 1. stage (read: a S40 of O2 that also can be used for bailout), and plug this directly in to the lung. All manually added O2 now comes from this bottle, and the steady flow comes from the internal. This just means I have to press the button more often when very deep. works for me I bring plenty of bailout anyways, so the S40 of O2 would have been carried no matter what. jon o Great information, Thanks. Hope to get to Norway someday. My Grand parents came from there in the 1920's My Grandma made many trips back to her home in Bergen. I have several old calenders with pictures of the town she gave me years ago. A lot of Norwegians here in Minnesota. Al
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 16:18	#6 (permalink)
ScubaAl New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bloomington, Minnesota Posts: 34	Re: Picking the right rebreather (for me) Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) In the end you must pick one that you are comfortable with and will match your needs. Just remember to think about the availability of training, service, and parts where you are located. Thanks for the reply. I agree 100%. As far as training and service, we have one of the best instructors here in Minnesota, Ron Benson. Spoke with him just the other day. Thanks again, Al
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 16:22	#7 (permalink)
ScubaAl New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bloomington, Minnesota Posts: 34	Re: Picking the right rebreather (for me) Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Standard KISS is good for 90-100m too How deep do you want to go? There is a smaller oraface and a more powerfull first stage spring for the KISS which ill be having a go with prior to my 127m planned dive on the KISS next Aug. ATB Mark At this point in time, I believe 100m would be my max. Got to draw the line somewhere, right? Thanks Mark, Al
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 16:24	#8 (permalink)
Skipbreather WAY past the barber pole Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA Posts: 523	Re: Picking the right rebreather (for me) I’ve got to believe you’ve done this, but on the outside chance you have not: Run across town to Going Under Dive Center in Maple Grove & talk w/ Ron Benson. He teaches KISS, Inspo, and Meg. I have zero doubt he can help you decide which way to look and answer questions you didn’t know you had. __________________ "Entropy RULES! Enjoy the interim." Last edited by Skipbreather : 22nd November 2007 at 16:26.
(Offline)

22nd November 2007, 16:30	#9 (permalink)
ScubaAl New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bloomington, Minnesota Posts: 34	Re: Picking the right rebreather (for me) Quote: (Originally Posted by Skipbreather) I’ve got to believe you’ve done this, but on the outside chance you have not: Run across town to Going Under Dive Center in Maple Grove & talk w/ Ron Benson. He teaches KISS, Inspo, and Meg. I have zero doubt he can help you decide which way to look and answer questions you didn’t know you had. I have known Ron for 10yrs or so. Did my trimix class back in 1999 with GUDC and have been lucky enough to dive wrecks like the Gunilda and Kamaloops with Ron. Thanks, Al
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 17:29	#10 (permalink)
sddiverrob New Member Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic rEvo Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 78	Re: Picking the right rebreather (for me) If your motivated you can add off-board O2 that you manually add to any mCCR its simply a matter of method depending on which mCCR you are adding it to. Once you've added off-board manually injectable O2 you can get past the O2 flow being the depth limiting factor on the mCCRs. Pick a unit that you are comfortable with mCCR or eCCR, can get training for, and can afford. Welcome to the silent world. Rob __________________ "Tech divers are the same all over the world..."
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