Preventing wet O2...

silent running · 16th September 2005, 10:33

Hello all, I've just had the entire O2 side of my Prism(1st stage, piping, solenoid) replaced(ouch$$$)and had to have my O2 pillar valve and cyl cleaned. This was almost certainly due to moisture in my O2 supply. I'm pretty sure I know where the wet O2 came from, but it does not matter much now. I talked to Joe Radomski about this as he so nicely cleaned up my valve and tank, and he didn't think there was much you could do in advance to protect against getting wet O2 in some unfamiliar place. Anybody else had this happen? Any suggestions about how to detect/avoid/dry out a wet O2 supply? This was definitely not an expense I'd counted on when I bought my CCR... Andy

KISSit! · 16th September 2005, 17:51

Well first things first, make sure the diptubes in your valves are still in place, especially if your tanks are mounted inverted. Before filling your cylinders, make sure to crack them open to blow out any minute amounts of water that might be trapped on the valve face. If you're getting o2 filled at a shop, make sure it's ABO or medical grade - just in case... technically ABO has a very low threshhold for moisture content.

If you're sure that the o2 is wet, then let the supplier know because it's proably rusting the insides out of their steel bottles!

***jradomski*** · 16th September 2005, 18:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hello all, I've just had the entire O2 side of my Prism(1st stage, piping, solenoid) replaced(ouch$$$)and had to have my O2 pillar valve and cyl cleaned. This was almost certainly due to moisture in my O2 supply. I'm pretty sure I know where the wet O2 came from, but it does not matter much now. I talked to Joe Radomski about this as he so nicely cleaned up my valve and tank, and he didn't think there was much you could do in advance to protect against getting wet O2 in some unfamiliar place. Anybody else had this happen? Any suggestions about how to detect/avoid/dry out a wet O2 supply? This was definitely not an expense I'd counted on when I bought my CCR... Andy

Hey Andy,

The one thing I did not mention isto make sure the guys who fill your oxygen partially fill it then purge it.. This not only will get rid of some "air" but will pick up some moisture if its there from the bottles being open...

The only real solution like I said is to get a conbo coalescor with a filter chamber you could put media in.. the imput would be fitted with a female din (like I have on my o2 bank that I showed you) and equip it with a whip so that you could connect their whip to your filter and then connect it to your tank.. The only problem is weight...

I am assuming the place yor tanks got trashed was a remote location, if so they probably made their oxygen from a PSA system and did insufficiet air drying on the inlet to the oxygen generator... They should also be drying the output as well befor ethey put it in theor bank..

***caveseeker7*** · 16th September 2005, 19:43

The correct answer from you should have been
"Get your tanks filled at an ANDI shop as they abide by a higher standard!"

silent running · 20th September 2005, 01:30

Thanks for the info guys-Andy

KISSit! · 20th September 2005, 02:41

You're welcome! (Can you tell I'm just posting to get to 100 and earn a custom title, so I can show off my wit?)

Underwaterbear · 20th September 2005, 12:56

Hiya Andy,

Believe me, I can sympathise when it comes to unscheduled Prism expenses!!

Just for my macabre interest (and in the hope of avoiding something similar in the future) can you tell us a bit more about the damage the moisture did? ...also I automatically assumed it must have been fresh water that got in (along the lines of Joes' post) ...but was it?

Cheers
Andrew

MHD · 20th September 2005, 21:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by KISSit!)

Well first things first, make sure the diptubes in your valves are still in place, especially if your tanks are mounted inverted.

I have a problem with this, I recently got to review an O2 fire, and spent quite a bit of time with a expert in the field and access to some USA DOT investigators comments as well, and snorkels may well be a big contributor to O2 fires in certain situations. Basically if you have the type with the closed end and the exit holes at 90 degrees to the air flow you are introducing another adiabatic compression point. The info I got was enough for me to remove the snorkels from all my O2 tanks.

Matt

***Beanie*** · 20th September 2005, 21:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD)

I have a problem with this, I recently got to review an O2 fire, and spent quite a bit of time with a expert in the field and access to some USA DOT investigators comments as well, and snorkels may well be a big contributor to O2 fires in certain situations. Basically if you have the type with the closed end and the exit holes at 90 degrees to the air flow you are introducing another adiabatic compression point. The info I got was enough for me to remove the snorkels from all my O2 tanks.

Matt

er do you mean anti debris tube rather than snorkel?

if you do that would explain why the dip tubes were changed on my cylinder when I had it cleaned

if you meant snorkel funny post and good enough reason to leave it behind

my definition of snorkel when used in diving context:
Surafe breathing device whihc sucks air from above the water level allowing you to breathe just below the surface

MHD · 20th September 2005, 21:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

er do you mean anti debris tube rather than snorkel?

if you do that would explain why the dip tubes were changed on my cylinder when I had it cleaned

if you meant snorkel funny post and good enough reason to leave it behind

my definition of snorkel when used in diving context:
Surafe breathing device whihc sucks air from above the water level allowing you to breathe just below the surface

OK the anti debris Tube for you more technically minded

Matt

16th September 2005, 10:33	#1 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,881	Preventing wet O2... Hello all, I've just had the entire O2 side of my Prism(1st stage, piping, solenoid) replaced(ouch$$$)and had to have my O2 pillar valve and cyl cleaned. This was almost certainly due to moisture in my O2 supply. I'm pretty sure I know where the wet O2 came from, but it does not matter much now. I talked to Joe Radomski about this as he so nicely cleaned up my valve and tank, and he didn't think there was much you could do in advance to protect against getting wet O2 in some unfamiliar place. Anybody else had this happen? Any suggestions about how to detect/avoid/dry out a wet O2 supply? This was definitely not an expense I'd counted on when I bought my CCR... Andy
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16th September 2005, 17:51	#2 (permalink)
KISSit! New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sea-Town Posts: 29	Well first things first, make sure the diptubes in your valves are still in place, especially if your tanks are mounted inverted. Before filling your cylinders, make sure to crack them open to blow out any minute amounts of water that might be trapped on the valve face. If you're getting o2 filled at a shop, make sure it's ABO or medical grade - just in case... technically ABO has a very low threshhold for moisture content. If you're sure that the o2 is wet, then let the supplier know because it's proably rusting the insides out of their steel bottles!
(Offline)

16th September 2005, 18:43	#3 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,133	Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hello all, I've just had the entire O2 side of my Prism(1st stage, piping, solenoid) replaced(ouch$$$)and had to have my O2 pillar valve and cyl cleaned. This was almost certainly due to moisture in my O2 supply. I'm pretty sure I know where the wet O2 came from, but it does not matter much now. I talked to Joe Radomski about this as he so nicely cleaned up my valve and tank, and he didn't think there was much you could do in advance to protect against getting wet O2 in some unfamiliar place. Anybody else had this happen? Any suggestions about how to detect/avoid/dry out a wet O2 supply? This was definitely not an expense I'd counted on when I bought my CCR... Andy Hey Andy, The one thing I did not mention isto make sure the guys who fill your oxygen partially fill it then purge it.. This not only will get rid of some "air" but will pick up some moisture if its there from the bottles being open... The only real solution like I said is to get a conbo coalescor with a filter chamber you could put media in.. the imput would be fitted with a female din (like I have on my o2 bank that I showed you) and equip it with a whip so that you could connect their whip to your filter and then connect it to your tank.. The only problem is weight... I am assuming the place yor tanks got trashed was a remote location, if so they probably made their oxygen from a PSA system and did insufficiet air drying on the inlet to the oxygen generator... They should also be drying the output as well befor ethey put it in theor bank.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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16th September 2005, 19:43	#4 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,577	The correct answer from you should have been "Get your tanks filled at an ANDI shop as they abide by a higher standard!" __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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20th September 2005, 01:30	#5 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,881	Thanks for the info guys-Andy
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20th September 2005, 02:41	#6 (permalink)
KISSit! New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sea-Town Posts: 29	You're welcome! (Can you tell I'm just posting to get to 100 and earn a custom title, so I can show off my wit?)
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20th September 2005, 12:56	#7 (permalink)
Underwaterbear A Prismer in Megland Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 203	Hiya Andy, Believe me, I can sympathise when it comes to unscheduled Prism expenses!! Just for my macabre interest (and in the hope of avoiding something similar in the future) can you tell us a bit more about the damage the moisture did? ...also I automatically assumed it must have been fresh water that got in (along the lines of Joes' post) ...but was it? Cheers Andrew
(Offline)

20th September 2005, 21:08	#8 (permalink)
MHD Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia Posts: 239	Quote: (Originally Posted by KISSit!) Well first things first, make sure the diptubes in your valves are still in place, especially if your tanks are mounted inverted. I have a problem with this, I recently got to review an O2 fire, and spent quite a bit of time with a expert in the field and access to some USA DOT investigators comments as well, and snorkels may well be a big contributor to O2 fires in certain situations. Basically if you have the type with the closed end and the exit holes at 90 degrees to the air flow you are introducing another adiabatic compression point. The info I got was enough for me to remove the snorkels from all my O2 tanks. Matt
(Offline)

20th September 2005, 21:25	#9 (permalink)
*Beanie* Gallery Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,329	Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD) I have a problem with this, I recently got to review an O2 fire, and spent quite a bit of time with a expert in the field and access to some USA DOT investigators comments as well, and snorkels may well be a big contributor to O2 fires in certain situations. Basically if you have the type with the closed end and the exit holes at 90 degrees to the air flow you are introducing another adiabatic compression point. The info I got was enough for me to remove the snorkels from all my O2 tanks. Matt er do you mean anti debris tube rather than snorkel? if you do that would explain why the dip tubes were changed on my cylinder when I had it cleaned if you meant snorkel funny post and good enough reason to leave it behind my definition of snorkel when used in diving context: Surafe breathing device whihc sucks air from above the water level allowing you to breathe just below the surface __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk
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20th September 2005, 21:57	#10 (permalink)
MHD Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia Posts: 239	Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) er do you mean anti debris tube rather than snorkel? if you do that would explain why the dip tubes were changed on my cylinder when I had it cleaned if you meant snorkel funny post and good enough reason to leave it behind my definition of snorkel when used in diving context: Surafe breathing device whihc sucks air from above the water level allowing you to breathe just below the surface OK the anti debris Tube for you more technically minded Matt
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