Which scooter?

decoweenie

Where did you get 30 mins from ?

I use a N-19 on almost every single dive, and could tell you that it lasts more than 30 minutes. And I do absolutely no maintenance other than rinsing it after the dive.

In the past, IIRC, I did a long post about the different scooters since I have owned (in chronological order):

• Scubapro - POS
• Apollo - great bargain
• Gavin standard body - is now a heavy beast
• SS UV-18 / 42 - same as Gavin
• X - super easy to handle, lightest of all, lots of options
• SS N-19 - 12-lb heavier than X, still very light and easy to handle

Now, I only keep the X and N-19 and use them interchangably.

IMHO, the N-19 is faster and has more capacity. The X is lighter and easily configure into different options (i.e. CSI = onboard video, double battery packs, travel case, etc).

Support-wise, both Ben (X) and Rodney (SS) are great people to deal with and very responsive. You can't go worng with either one.

You just need to decide what do you want to use the scooter for to select which scooter...

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gtzavelas

Having owned both the SS (the UV 18) and the X (both short and long) I can say that both are great scooters and both companies provide great / fast /efficient support

I decided to keep the X because the short body is SUPER light and great for ferrying into caves , I also like to be able to switch speeds on the fly (using the trigger) and not having to stop adjust the pitch (well it’s more of a gadget that a real differentiator)

Now there are some arguments that technically the X is marginally better (one O-ring instead of 2 in the nose, brushless motor, stronger trigger versus wire) but I think that they are really marginal and not enough to say that’s its better/worse
I have found that their power/thrust is comparable. I don’t have the absolute numbers in thrust but a better streamline of the sling tanks for example would have a bigger impact on speed that the delta in thrust of the of the scooters.

So, as stated above, I agree that you can’t go wrong with any of the two, both are great scooters...

Ben Field

Off topic slightly I'm sorry...

Picked up an Apollo a couple of months back based on Phi's advice note above, wanted to try scooter diving without investing in something more expensive than my rebreather!

Its Bl**dy brilliant, have to admit the first few dives I was giggling like a school kid!

Last used it on a U-Boat at 50mtrs towing myself and buddy twice round the wreck at impressive speed. I hadn't realised how useful it would be at covering ground and getting an overview of a wreck or area.

Assuming you find something that runs as fast and as long (I got 60mins easy) as an Apollo I don't think you'll be dissapointed.

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lizardland

At the moment I've got a SS UV-18 and a Gavin short body (I got both cheap despite swearing I'd never buy another Gavin). The SS is absolutely superb (thanks, José!), the build quality is fantastic (especially compared to the Gavin, one of the latches fell off on the second dive) and it is much better trimmed than the Gavin. It's as fast as you'll ever need (after flooding my suit on Sunday speed 9 was much appreciated for getting home) even when towing another scooter. The SS is also about 4-5" shorter than the Gavin which surprised me too.

OK, lead acid batteries are heavy but they are very simple, easy to maintain and cheap to replace. And even in the grand scheme of things, the weight isn't that bad.

For open water use they are nice.

Cheers,

Stuart

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decoweenie

If you dive a deep big'ish wreck, using a scooter is great for getting down the wreck FAST - especially if there is any current. Looking back at the dive log, I might need to slow down my descend a bit (i.e. currently ~40m/min) to prevent long-term osteoporosis.

On a typical dive on a scooter (i.e. 70m 35min BT), I could do penetrations at 3 separate locations on the wreck and still have time to have a quick look-see in between independent of condition.

Without scooter, usually 1 with current or possible 2 if they are close.

Diving with a non-scooter buddy, no problem. Just tow him between penetration points.

Sure, 70-lb versus 38-lb.

Huhmm... let's see which one do I prefer to lug around on/off a wet rocking boat....

I have used the Apollo cave diving in France too. It is perfectly fine to be used for distances where swimming out isn't a problem with adequate gas.

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DeepBlueInnovation

Has anyone used Jet Boots: Jetboots

They are fairly pricey but would seem to be a lot easier to lug around and the advantage of having your hands free would be good...

decoweenie

I inquired about them, but Ben no longer target the recreational diving market thus the price went up from ~US$4000 to around US$10,000...

One of the things I didn't like about the JetBoots is carrying the large/heavy battery canister on top of the standard tech gears.

If it was split into 2 more managable canister that you could distribute better, it might be better.

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"...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..."

- Rebreather World PM

Ben Field

Wonder what market he is after then?

All the serious deep, tech, cave groups use "normal" scooters, I can't see the military using jet boots? Surely there aren't so many uber-rich holiday divers who can afford them?

THere is a good video on youtube of them in action, they don't look particularly fast, I wouldn't mind having a go though, look like abit of a laugh!

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decoweenie

IIRC, Ben mentioned commercial and military markets but there is no way to verify that.

Ben did mention on TDS that his annual sales is similar to X/SS revenue. Again, no way to verify that either.

There is some mentioning on JetBoot website about a large order thru Mr. KSS (Singapore IANTD franchise holder), but didn't say to where. If it goes to the Singaporean military, then they will sit and rot next to the batch of Cis MK-5 they bought a decade ago...

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spn2298

How about this?
http://www.spacesystems.co.jp/index.html (but Japanese only)

Weight 9kg
Max depth 50m
Runtime 80min

Regards,

-Masa