Are all CCR manufacturers F#####

Drmike

.....blimey I really had a good rant there didnt I lol!

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Cave diving is a sport
Wreck diving is a sport
Diving in general is a sport

'Rebreather diving' is not a sport
its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment

Drmike

Ive also had good experiences with Juergesen Marine.

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Cave diving is a sport
Wreck diving is a sport
Diving in general is a sport

'Rebreather diving' is not a sport
its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment

J. V.

All ! Except mam !

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--------------------
Jacques
NPSFQQA-EDS IT # 007
(remué non agité)

Stephane

[french private joke]
Who? Michèle Alliot-Marie ?
[/french private joke]

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Stéphane
Hammer-rEvo powered!

JCdesign97

As usual, I fought a losing battle against donning my devil's advocate costume here. I couldn't agree more with the above points about life support equipment, adequate vs. inadequate testing thereof, recalling faulty products, etc. But two things jump out at me ...

1) The title of the thread and the initial issue(s) sound like they may have more to do with dealer support in the given country than with the manufacturer or the overall product (pardon if I'm wrong here).

2) As far as the bigger picture and the comparison with other industries - particularly automobiles - although a good one, I think at the same time it's no secret that we're talking about unit numbers and price points that make rebreather sales look literally like a drop in the bucket. Let's not forget that CCR manufacturers are businesses first and foremost. Every hour of design, testing, prototyping, etc. costs money; which then gets put directly into the number of units sold ... so in terms of RBs vs. cars we're talking about hundreds of units as opposed to hundreds of thousands.

Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not defending any manufacturer or the industry as a whole in any way; and I would agree that past issues have ranged from poorly thought out to bordering on criminally negligent. But as has been pointed out here many times before we're all adults who are ultimately solely responsible for the risk level we assume. The only absolute, 100% certain way to remove all risk from the equation is to not dive at all, let alone a rebreather. I would love to live in that perfect world where I could dive a unit wherein every last component and material has been tested for thousands and thousands of hours for every conceivable failure mode, that monitors every parameter without failure, every subsystem has triple (or more) redundancy ... oh and it would cost $2000 US or less. But the sad reality is that same unit would end up easily costing more like $50,000 or $100,000 per copy if we really look at the simple economics. There is no doubt in my mind that every manufacturer started with good intentions and would love to have a limitless development budget. But unless the Rebreather community as a whole suddenly increases either it's ranks (by about 1000 fold) and/or our discretionary incomes, it ain't gonna happen ...

I could cite personal examples with my admittedly tiny experience thus far, but this reply has already gotten far too long ... so let the flames begin!

Cheers,

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Cheers,

John

silent running

Mike, I agree with everything you said in the rest of this post. But I think the car analogy is better thought of not in terms of today's cars, but the first automobiles. Today's CCRs are more like the model T than the 07' Toyota with the highest crash test rating.

How long did it take to get metal dashboards out of cars and airbags into them? I sure hope CCR development doesn't take that long to get to the same place...

Drmike

a rebreather, even the very best, is just a simple machine -theres very little technology in them and none of it is anything like advanced! Nor does it really need to be. Your average kitchen electronic appliance is likely far more technologiocaly advanced - and more reliable


technology wise compare the functionality of say a Meg or Prism to a 20+ year old MK15...We are NOT moving forward (nor do we really need to as they are simple machines in their basic form)- all we have done is lower the cost to manufacture and made them afordable and accessible to the masses....possibly at the expense of.....well you know


damn what a ranty day im having ....Oh G&T has arrived..alls well with the world

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Cave diving is a sport
Wreck diving is a sport
Diving in general is a sport

'Rebreather diving' is not a sport
its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment

bgpartri

Mverick,

I try very hard to answer all emails promptly. Could you tell me your name or question so I can search for your emails?

Bruce

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http://www.rebreather.ca

Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.

Dave O

I've had great response from Jetsam. BTW all the parts I've needed were either damaged by me, or standard replacement parts (O-ring kits ... )

Others I've had great service from:
LDS
Oxycheq
TDL

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Only people who bat for the wrong team wash their undersuits......... I wanna smell piss when I go diving, not ferkin' fabric softener! <decodiver>

Schizophrenics never dive solo.

My Blog

fireman

Yes I was wondering how do I get into these "Beta" test programs for rebreathers I everybody keeps talking about, and how much do they pay you, do they pay for the life insurence...

I used to be a (bad) waiter and one of our maxims was no matter what even if the kitchen is one fire, greet people in a timely manner, and get them a cocktail. In case thats too oblique, make sure you communicate--Its bad to be kept waiting, even worse not to know why or for how long.

Jetsam and Shearwater outstanding, Mcmaster Carr the best but their warehouse is 45min away. Love John at Northeast Scuba supply, Also a thumbs up for Ron at Going Under Scuba Center.

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Heres to you Capt. Bill
Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.