Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread

**PhilSiswick** · 29th August 2007, 08:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by jont)

This is getting stupid.

Diving is risky, deep diving, cave and wreck diving is even more risky. If you cant take responsibility for youself...don't dive.

If you are going to rely one anyone you shouldn't be diving.

People in our sport are going to die.

Rather then getting into all of this coast guard crap we should be reviewing the facts surrounding this incedent, it may help save a life.

To many people just want to put there 2 cents in, well here's mine if you arn't aware of FACT surrounding this trategy....shut the **** up!!!!

Jon

With respect, I don't agree, on a number of counts:

One - this thread was split from the one that is discussing the few facts about the incident, so it's fair game for anyone to discuss Coastguard methods and procedures. It's another opportunity to learn from the experience and knowledge of others so that, if we need it, we know what's going to happen.
Two - I strongly agree that understanding the facts of this incident is the most important factor in preventing it, but I'll bet you that a number of people who dive the Oriskany and other locations in the US that are not deemed to need CG Helicopter cover didn't know that they didn't have it. If they were relying on it as a backup mechanism, then they now know they don't have it. That's good news - reduced complacency is likely to lead to improved safety up front
Third - It isn't necessary to die if something goes wrong underwater. You can't legislate for every failure and issue. Having universal SAR cover, as we are very lucky to have here in the UK, is a wonderful thing. I certainly don't rely on it, but as a last resort, it's nice to have

Cheers,

burgerbozo · 29th August 2007, 09:08

No one wants to know , its the good old USA way = lawyers worry worry worry , i dont want them getting me money if i halp , so i wont help sorted ,

***Beanie*** · 29th August 2007, 09:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick)

With respect, I don't agree, on a number of counts:

One - this thread was split from the one that is discussing the few facts about the incident, so it's fair game for anyone to discuss Coastguard methods and procedures. It's another opportunity to learn from the experience and knowledge of others so that, if we need it, we know what's going to happen.
Two - I strongly agree that understanding the facts of this incident is the most important factor in preventing it, but I'll bet you that a number of people who dive the Oriskany and other locations in the US that are not deemed to need CG Helicopter cover didn't know that they didn't have it. If they were relying on it as a backup mechanism, then they now know they don't have it. That's good news - reduced complacency is likely to lead to improved safety up front
Third - It isn't necessary to die if something goes wrong underwater. You can't legislate for every failure and issue. Having universal SAR cover, as we are very lucky to have here in the UK, is a wonderful thing. I certainly don't rely on it, but as a last resort, it's nice to have

Cheers,

Totally agree a bit like have the fire brigade / dept doesn't encourage you to burn down your house and bloody nice to have if anything does happen!

jeff h · 29th August 2007, 22:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick)

.......but I'll bet you that a number of people who dive the Oriskany and other locations in the US that are not deemed to need CG Helicopter cover didn't know that they didn't have it. If they were relying on it as a backup mechanism, then they now know they don't have it. That's good news - reduced complacency is likely to lead to improved safety up front

Ironically a friend of mine was on a cattle boat last weekend and as part of the briefing they told him if anyone had any problems they would call the CG and a helicopter would be sent. Sadly, this was the weekend after the accident.

I wasn't there, so maybe he misunderstood what they were saying but it didn't sound that way.

doug allen · 28th September 2007, 00:00

I posted on the other thread about Lee Shortt....my good friend and dive buddy on the day he sustained his fatal injury.

There has been alot of talk about rescue efforts by the USCG.....was it fast enough, good enough, appropriate....etc.etc.etc.

Lee's injury, in retrospect, was so severe that even if a chamber was on the dive boat, he likely would not have survived.

Yes, the USCG sent a fast boat to meet the dive boat. Yes, it took about 15 to 20 mins to transfer him from the dive boat to the USCG boat. I also heard (on the radio) the USCG instruct the boat Capt. to prepare for a Helo extraction....don't know what happened to the Helo.

I do know that the USCG boat did not have a medic on board or medical O2....the EMT that just happened to be diving with us on the dive boat was gracious enough to board the USCG boat and assist with first aid. Additionally, we had to transfer the available O2 to the USCG boat.

All of this to say that the USCG should have Medical O2 on board at all times and any and all personnel on board a USCG boat should be able to deliver first aid to a diver.....but, we all know the risks of diving.....and none of us should rely on any form of rescue.....know your limits, dive within your limits and training.

I don't fault the USCG at all in the final outcome of this mess.....but there are a few changes that could be made with regard to procedures and equipment that just might save a life in the future when another less severe accident happens.

**PhilSiswick** · 28th September 2007, 09:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by doug allen)

I posted on the other thread about Lee Shortt....my good friend and dive buddy on the day he sustained his fatal injury.

There has been alot of talk about rescue efforts by the USCG.....was it fast enough, good enough, appropriate....etc.etc.etc.

Lee's injury, in retrospect, was so severe that even if a chamber was on the dive boat, he likely would not have survived.

Yes, the USCG sent a fast boat to meet the dive boat. Yes, it took about 15 to 20 mins to transfer him from the dive boat to the USCG boat. I also heard (on the radio) the USCG instruct the boat Capt. to prepare for a Helo extraction....don't know what happened to the Helo.

I do know that the USCG boat did not have a medic on board or medical O2....the EMT that just happened to be diving with us on the dive boat was gracious enough to board the USCG boat and assist with first aid. Additionally, we had to transfer the available O2 to the USCG boat.

All of this to say that the USCG should have Medical O2 on board at all times and any and all personnel on board a USCG boat should be able to deliver first aid to a diver.....but, we all know the risks of diving.....and none of us should rely on any form of rescue.....know your limits, dive within your limits and training.

I don't fault the USCG at all in the final outcome of this mess.....but there are a few changes that could be made with regard to procedures and equipment that just might save a life in the future when another less severe accident happens.

Hi Doug,

First - my condolences to you and Lee's family.

Thanks for posting so openly on this and the other thread - this information will help those who dive in that area understand what cover they have if something happens.

Cheers,

doug allen · 9th October 2007, 04:20

Skipbreather....regarding the first post on this thread....

Where is the comment from a USCG person saying that Mr. Lee Shortt Jr. got what he deserved? I've looked all over.......and can't find it.

Anyone?

Please show me.....I have words for that person.

***sadave*** · 9th October 2007, 06:50

I can't find it now, but it was a comment on the page of the initial news report, Oriskany diver dies | Local News | pnj.com

Supposedly made by a member of the USCG, but like with all forums / posters to news websites, it could have been anyone.

Skipbreather · 9th October 2007, 18:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by sadave)

I can't find it now, but it was a comment on the page of the initial news report, Oriskany diver dies | Local News | pnj.com

Supposedly made by a member of the USCG, but like with all forums / posters to news websites, it could have been anyone.

I just checked the link- and the comment was at the bottom of the page by "Coastie04". If you click on the 'all comments' tab, several folks gave him some (IMHO well deserved) flak.

29th August 2007, 08:29	#41 (permalink)
PhilSiswick WSKD 0001 Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 922	Re: Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread Quote: (Originally Posted by jont) This is getting stupid. Diving is risky, deep diving, cave and wreck diving is even more risky. If you cant take responsibility for youself...don't dive. If you are going to rely one anyone you shouldn't be diving. People in our sport are going to die. Rather then getting into all of this coast guard crap we should be reviewing the facts surrounding this incedent, it may help save a life. To many people just want to put there 2 cents in, well here's mine if you arn't aware of FACT surrounding this trategy....shut the **** up!!!! Jon With respect, I don't agree, on a number of counts: One - this thread was split from the one that is discussing the few facts about the incident, so it's fair game for anyone to discuss Coastguard methods and procedures. It's another opportunity to learn from the experience and knowledge of others so that, if we need it, we know what's going to happen. Two - I strongly agree that understanding the facts of this incident is the most important factor in preventing it, but I'll bet you that a number of people who dive the Oriskany and other locations in the US that are not deemed to need CG Helicopter cover didn't know that they didn't have it. If they were relying on it as a backup mechanism, then they now know they don't have it. That's good news - reduced complacency is likely to lead to improved safety up front Third - It isn't necessary to die if something goes wrong underwater. You can't legislate for every failure and issue. Having universal SAR cover, as we are very lucky to have here in the UK, is a wonderful thing. I certainly don't rely on it, but as a last resort, it's nice to have Cheers, __________________ Phil No comment on open circuit... it's an evolutionary dead end not really worth discussing here. Dave Sutton, 2007 I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

29th August 2007, 09:08	#42 (permalink)
burgerbozo New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK Posts: 12	Re: Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread No one wants to know , its the good old USA way = lawyers worry worry worry , i dont want them getting me money if i halp , so i wont help sorted ,
(Offline)

29th August 2007, 09:28	#43 (permalink)
*Beanie* Close to that red button Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,207	Re: Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick) With respect, I don't agree, on a number of counts: One - this thread was split from the one that is discussing the few facts about the incident, so it's fair game for anyone to discuss Coastguard methods and procedures. It's another opportunity to learn from the experience and knowledge of others so that, if we need it, we know what's going to happen. Two - I strongly agree that understanding the facts of this incident is the most important factor in preventing it, but I'll bet you that a number of people who dive the Oriskany and other locations in the US that are not deemed to need CG Helicopter cover didn't know that they didn't have it. If they were relying on it as a backup mechanism, then they now know they don't have it. That's good news - reduced complacency is likely to lead to improved safety up front Third - It isn't necessary to die if something goes wrong underwater. You can't legislate for every failure and issue. Having universal SAR cover, as we are very lucky to have here in the UK, is a wonderful thing. I certainly don't rely on it, but as a last resort, it's nice to have Cheers, Totally agree a bit like have the fire brigade / dept doesn't encourage you to burn down your house and bloody nice to have if anything does happen! __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk www.divelife.co.uk
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29th August 2007, 22:33	#44 (permalink)
jeff h New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 89	Re: Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick) .......but I'll bet you that a number of people who dive the Oriskany and other locations in the US that are not deemed to need CG Helicopter cover didn't know that they didn't have it. If they were relying on it as a backup mechanism, then they now know they don't have it. That's good news - reduced complacency is likely to lead to improved safety up front Ironically a friend of mine was on a cattle boat last weekend and as part of the briefing they told him if anyone had any problems they would call the CG and a helicopter would be sent. Sadly, this was the weekend after the accident. I wasn't there, so maybe he misunderstood what they were saying but it didn't sound that way.
(Offline)

28th September 2007, 00:00	#45 (permalink)
doug allen New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Optima Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Asheboro, NC Posts: 29	Re: Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread I posted on the other thread about Lee Shortt....my good friend and dive buddy on the day he sustained his fatal injury. There has been alot of talk about rescue efforts by the USCG.....was it fast enough, good enough, appropriate....etc.etc.etc. Lee's injury, in retrospect, was so severe that even if a chamber was on the dive boat, he likely would not have survived. Yes, the USCG sent a fast boat to meet the dive boat. Yes, it took about 15 to 20 mins to transfer him from the dive boat to the USCG boat. I also heard (on the radio) the USCG instruct the boat Capt. to prepare for a Helo extraction....don't know what happened to the Helo. I do know that the USCG boat did not have a medic on board or medical O2....the EMT that just happened to be diving with us on the dive boat was gracious enough to board the USCG boat and assist with first aid. Additionally, we had to transfer the available O2 to the USCG boat. All of this to say that the USCG should have Medical O2 on board at all times and any and all personnel on board a USCG boat should be able to deliver first aid to a diver.....but, we all know the risks of diving.....and none of us should rely on any form of rescue.....know your limits, dive within your limits and training. I don't fault the USCG at all in the final outcome of this mess.....but there are a few changes that could be made with regard to procedures and equipment that just might save a life in the future when another less severe accident happens.
(Offline)

28th September 2007, 09:05	#46 (permalink)
PhilSiswick WSKD 0001 Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 922	Re: Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread Quote: (Originally Posted by doug allen) I posted on the other thread about Lee Shortt....my good friend and dive buddy on the day he sustained his fatal injury. There has been alot of talk about rescue efforts by the USCG.....was it fast enough, good enough, appropriate....etc.etc.etc. Lee's injury, in retrospect, was so severe that even if a chamber was on the dive boat, he likely would not have survived. Yes, the USCG sent a fast boat to meet the dive boat. Yes, it took about 15 to 20 mins to transfer him from the dive boat to the USCG boat. I also heard (on the radio) the USCG instruct the boat Capt. to prepare for a Helo extraction....don't know what happened to the Helo. I do know that the USCG boat did not have a medic on board or medical O2....the EMT that just happened to be diving with us on the dive boat was gracious enough to board the USCG boat and assist with first aid. Additionally, we had to transfer the available O2 to the USCG boat. All of this to say that the USCG should have Medical O2 on board at all times and any and all personnel on board a USCG boat should be able to deliver first aid to a diver.....but, we all know the risks of diving.....and none of us should rely on any form of rescue.....know your limits, dive within your limits and training. I don't fault the USCG at all in the final outcome of this mess.....but there are a few changes that could be made with regard to procedures and equipment that just might save a life in the future when another less severe accident happens. Hi Doug, First - my condolences to you and Lee's family. Thanks for posting so openly on this and the other thread - this information will help those who dive in that area understand what cover they have if something happens. Cheers, __________________ Phil No comment on open circuit... it's an evolutionary dead end not really worth discussing here. Dave Sutton, 2007 I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

9th October 2007, 04:20	#47 (permalink)
doug allen New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Optima Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Asheboro, NC Posts: 29	Re: Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread Skipbreather....regarding the first post on this thread.... Where is the comment from a USCG person saying that Mr. Lee Shortt Jr. got what he deserved? I've looked all over.......and can't find it. Anyone? Please show me.....I have words for that person.
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9th October 2007, 06:50	#48 (permalink)
*sadave* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Posts: 1,030	Re: Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread I can't find it now, but it was a comment on the page of the initial news report, Oriskany diver dies \| Local News \| pnj.com Supposedly made by a member of the USCG, but like with all forums / posters to news websites, it could have been anyone. __________________ Wave!
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9th October 2007, 18:36	#49 (permalink)
Skipbreather Reads the fine print Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA Posts: 543	Re: Coast Guard Thread - Split from Oriskany thread Quote: (Originally Posted by sadave) I can't find it now, but it was a comment on the page of the initial news report, Oriskany diver dies \| Local News \| pnj.com Supposedly made by a member of the USCG, but like with all forums / posters to news websites, it could have been anyone. I just checked the link- and the comment was at the bottom of the page by "Coastie04". If you click on the 'all comments' tab, several folks gave him some (IMHO well deserved) flak. __________________ "Entropy RULES! Enjoy the interim."
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