[kybrt]

To the best of my knowledge the only agency in the US offering near real time response via helicopter to maritime emergencies is the NYPD. They offer 24 -7 coverage with scuba divers they can deploy anywhere in nyc within 5 min of takeoff and can deploy assets up to 60 nm offshore in a reasonable time frame.

Off New Jersey your USCG asset is scrambling from Cape Cod MASS or Atlantic City NJ. Not ideal but better than nothing.

Whoever and wherever notwithstanding, They will have to fly a little to get you, and then they have to find you. That always takes time.

condolences of course.

[bobby]

I also have had nothing but great experiences with our USCG. I have been air lifted one time myself and was directly involved in an air lift for a young teenager that resulted in him living. The teenager situation was in the Bahamas and the victim was from Mexico. My situation was a very serious type 2 hit and the only reason that I had a full recovery is because of the very quick response from the CG in getting me into a chamber.

Bobby

[Bazza]

Guys .... a sad event and I trust the family are bearing up.

I have a few simple questions that have puzzled me when reading this thread, I am not knocking anyone but I cannot get my head around this.

Dropping a huge ship 25 miles of the coast as a tourist trap is fine, more of it in my book BUT ... always a but

If the plan is to get divers to dive this wreck and thus inject capital into the area then :

Why was not adequate rescue facilities provided, like a chopper and
whay is there not a top notch chamber available ???

To me I cannot see how they got approval to dump such a big money earner so far out to sea without having to provide the paying customer such services as chopper rescue and multi person chambers.

Big ship lots of divers equals potential problems ... does it not ???

Maybe the community needs to think about putting some of the dosh they collect back into providing a safe environment if only from a rescue side of things.

Don't flame just think about it, as a potential tour group leader I do.

regards Baz

[hchoat]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bazza)

Guys .... a sad event and I trust the family are bearing up.

I have a few simple questions that have puzzled me when reading this thread, I am not knocking anyone but I cannot get my head around this.

Dropping a huge ship 25 miles of the coast as a tourist trap is fine, more off it in my book BUT ... always a but

If the plan is to get divers to dive this wreck and thus inject capital into the area then :

Why was not adequate rescue facilities provided, like a chopper and
whay is there not a top notch chamber available ???

To me I cannot see how they got approval to dump such a big money earner so far out to sea without having to provide the paying customer such services as chopper rescue and multi person chambers.

Big ship lots of divers equals potential problems ... does it not ???

Maybe the community needs to think about putting some of the dosh they collect back into providing a safe environment if only from a rescue side of things.

Don't flame just think about it, as a potential tour group leader I do.

regards Baz

Baz,

As a resident of Escambia County (the gov. entity which secured the ship for Pensacola), and someone who was at many of the pre-procurement and pre-sinking meetings- let me say straight up that the Oriskany was not placed here for divers. Everyone seems to think that is the case, but it most definitely is not. The Oriskany was sunk to provide habitat for fish, specifically game fish. The revenue from charter fishing boats is much, much greater in this area than that of charter dive vessels. Offhore fishing is BIG BUSINESS in the tourist industry.

As to the rescue side of things, in short, it comes down to revenue and allocation of resources. The USCG has a huge area to cover, and finite resources (especially funding) to do it with. Since Pensacola is not, and is not relatively close to, a large shipping port, we have limited CG facilites. With regard to recompression chambers, there is quite a snazzy one right here in town. Less than 10 years old, with hoods, tv's, can treat at least a half dozen, the whole nine yards. Unfortunately, the issue again is funding. When Pensacola Hyperbaric Care first opened, they were a DAN facility, however, they were unable to justify the cost of keeping a crew on call 24/7/365, so they stopped. It is a private facility, so the bottom line is profit. I really wish they still treated divers, but I can understand that the revenue just isn't there to support the expense.

Finally, most of the industry here (including me) believes that the Oriskany will be a "flash in the pan". Personally I think that after the first five years it wont be nearly the draw that it is now. We just don't have what other locations (like the Keys) have to offer in variety. If this turns out not to be the case, hopefully we will see some of these issues addressed more fully. However, at the tail end of season 2, I just don't see that the dollars are there to justify it at this point.

[JS1scuba]

Quote: (Originally Posted by hchoat)

Baz,

Less than 10 years old, with hoods, tv's, can treat at least a half dozen, the whole nine yards. Unfortunately, the issue again is funding. When Pensacola Hyperbaric Care first opened, they were a DAN facility, however, they were unable to justify the cost of keeping a crew on call 24/7/365, so they stopped. It is a private facility, so the bottom line is profit. I really wish they still treated divers, but I can understand that the revenue just isn't there to support the expense.

Topic change .....

HBO Facilities for Divers

Heather -- i think i can be of some help here. In 1994 NYC had basically one hyperbaric chamber that was in a hospital and one old mothballed system at a commercial diving company. The problem we were having was that there was no place for divers to go where they were welcome. I put together a system with the old commercial diving company where we refurbed the system, put together an on-call staff, got physicians involved etc. and in a matter of months put on-line a 24/7/365 call system. City Island Chamber became one of the busiest facilities in the country. We installed a community education system, a 24 hour hotline, etc.

You can coordinate with the existiing facility you have and help set that up down there. It takes a total of 9 dedicated volunteers who will work with the facility to get it "prepared" to take a diver in. Our system was set up in such a way that with a single call from a diver / DAN/ Doctor / USCG we could be ready to take that patient in under 45 minutes ready to pressurize.

I will be happy to share with you how we did it and how we treated more than 100 divers over the few years we had the system. Our project was an interim system until the hospitals would readily take the divers. Now they do.

PM me and I will be happy to help.

Cheers

[Dave Sutton]

Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc)

I am not beating the CG I just thought the post that coastie posted on that forum was quite callous.

Coming from a USCG Family...

The USCG is absolutely unrecognizable as the service it was when my family served it, from what I grew up with every day as a kid. It's gone from being a "you do need to go, but you don't need to come back" search and rescue mission organization to just another bloated and risk-adverse Dept of Homeland Security group. I used to look forward to meeting the Coasties out on the ocean... sometimes we would toss over a cold beer and share a story. Now I get a 20 year old farm kid from Nebraska coming onto my boat in *black shoes* (teak decks), and instead of wearing a grin, he's wearing a pistol. I'll tell ya this: It's not the USCG I loved.

So..... in any event:

Many of the guys are good, the guys in Kodiak are still the best. Their aviators are all *top quality* But the organization as a group? Hmm..... the budget is not going to SAR any longer, it's going to Port Security. Loss of SAR resources is the result. Homeland *Security* not Homeland Seach and Rescue.... plenty of machine-gun armed USCG helicopters flying around NY Harbor, but that means less helo-hours available to go to sea to save lives. Sad. Now, with this said: There's not a USCG Air Station "everywhere you want one", and that's the case in P-Cola. There's a huge USN SAR system in place there, but it's not designed for civil SAR use. New Orleans is a ways away.... just the way it is. And the USCG small boats are "not too bad" when it comes to hauling ass, so it could have been worse. Up here I'm lucky, close to Air Station Cape Cod, and when we're off NJ close to Air Station Brooklyn. Other places of the USA? Not always going to be true. Knowing what SAR assets are available is part of dive planning. Ditto for chamber access. Pre-program the numbers into your cellphone (or Iridium SATPHONE like we have on EXPLORER). Test the numbers and talk to the Rescue Coordination Center and ask them what assets they have. Know before you go.....


Dave

Dad was 39 years in the USCG, went from E-1 to O-6, or Seaman Recruit (enlisted rating) to 4 stripe Captain. Grandpa was a USCG sub-hunter in WW-II, Great Grandpa lost his life on a breeches bouy rescue in 1906 in the Life Saving Service, and Great-Great Grandpa was a Surfboatman on the privately run Lifeboat New Jersey in the late 1800's... I grew up with the USCG as the centerpiece of all life. Never knew otherwise. Semper P.


.

[Dave O]

FWIW

We had a CG pilot stop by our local dive club and give a great presentation on their activities off the NJ coast. While he was clearly not in the PR game, he did a great job of telling us how they do business.

As fate would have it, within the next few months I was witness to the efficiency with which they operate. We were 10 miles of the coast, when a diver surfaced with problems. (BTW his buddy brought him to the surface unconscious and saved his life.). The Coast Guard was notified immediately, and they dispatched a helo, and boats. The boats arrived first (within 15-20 minutes). They put crew on board who took command and prepared for the airlift. The helo was there shortly. The diver was airlifted, taken to the closest available chamber, and treated. ( He was fine after treatment.)

Three thoughts stick with me after this experience. 1) The Coast Guard crews did a great job! 2) The crew of our boat did a great job! 3) Those CG boats are FAST.

Everyone is talking about the helos, but don't underestimate the capabilities of those little boats. It was my understanding that they can to well in excess of 30 knots.

I'm not sure how many popular dive locations there are off Pensacola, but if the Big-O is the only large attraction, then it clearly does not justify a helo just for divers. Mobile is a much larger port, and New Orleans (HUGE) is not to far. How do you justify having those resources available for the two divers that have had problems in the last two years?

[kybrt]

Air station brooklyn no longer exists. its now the home of NYPD special operations. they even moved the monument out from in front of the headquarters building to set up a "fun house" for the esu folks.

if you get an orange helicopter its coming from Atlantic city or cape cod.

Dave you going to drop by the revo class in Pa this sept?

[grandizer52]

First off, a sincere condolence to the family,
second. having worked with the coast gaurd on several missions over the years...when things don't go in a happy ending way it's not right to place blame on the USCG. For one, since 9/11 they have been spread so thin in FL state between, Antiterrorism/port security, drug interdiction, immigration interdiction. Also bear in mind, by proceedure it takes them 30 min, to safely launch a helo. is that to long? well how many crashes have they had in rescue missions? no numbers come up...
It hurts when we lose someone in the dive community, we all question our on morality after, but when my fellow sailors get a malee cause the out come wasn't desireable....maybe we need to A) get some votes to get more resources present, B)...go to the recruiter and go USN/USCG Search and rescue, C) maybe do some research on VBSS Missions gulf coast.
this post isn't ment to kick over a hornets nest, but since septemer 11th there's been alot of finger pointing at the military.
thank you

R
MM1/SS Stephen Porter
Center for Antiterrorism Pearl Harbor

[UKSteve]

Quote: (Originally Posted by grandizer52)

Also bear in mind, by proceedure it takes them 30 min, to safely launch a helo.

30 mins!!

We are seriously blessed here in the UK with the combination of military and coastguard / civilian SAR coverage... a very different level of service if you have a diving accident.. especially in the English Channel.

Even had a case last week where a helicopter was hovering over a diver's SMB when their cover boat broke down..