Oxygen Cleanliness - Again

Ant Slegg

I know it has been discussed before but I'd be interested in comments on the following (preferably from the Europeans on here but anyone is who is willing to give it a shot is welcome). For the record having seen O2 and oil mix I am right behind regular checks.

The baseline assumptions I am making are:
1) We all know that oxygen and oils/lubricants don't go well together
2) We all know that oxygen and various types of "O" rings and other materials don't go well together


3) We all are as careful as we can when:

a) getting cylinders filled and

b) using them

4) We are all sane enough to get a cylinder cleaned if we suspected contamination
5) We are all used to the idea that we have to get oxygen/EANx cylinders inspected annually and having a nice big sticker on it afterwards

Living in Luxembourg getting the latter done has been a challenge and I am concerned that although the cylinders I own now have a test stamp (valid until 2012!) I will have difficulty getting the cylinders filled especially in the UK. I also seem to have difficulty explaining the annual inspection idea locally.

What surprised me (in talking to people in England) is that the annual inspection for O2 service and O2 cleanliness is not mandatory but is down to "custom and practice".

What I am interested in knowing is:
1) Has anyone got experience of getting cylinders filled (by commercial dove shops) that lack that all important official looking sticker?
2) Has anyone got any experience of O2 cleaning cylinders/valves etc. themselves? (will a dive shop accept a home made sticker?)

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Ant' S
Learning to dive since 1990...

teomannaskali

I have cleaned for O2 my cylinders and valves. I had to change the o rings and then lubricate with christolube.

For the filling part I had no problems as the filling station only dealt with commercial oxygen for special thanks It was beyond their grasp that a cylinder could not be O2 clean. (Thank god it is them who will blow up if they screw up)

They said that they had to paint my cylinder blue before they could fill it. And the pain job was the crappiest I have ever seen.

Teoman

nigelh

Correct.
No rules.
It's not even what the shops decided it was what they were told was 'this is what you do' when they did their blending courses and nobody bothered to question it.

I've just realised I need to check my cylinders are in test/clean as I'm taking the box on a live aboard next month and I ought to try to comply with the rules. Normally I fill them myself at home so I know they are clean.

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nigelh

Ant Slegg

Good luck - it seems even when this IS successful it is taking longer and longer

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Ant' S
Learning to dive since 1990...

teomannaskali

So what would be a good action to take? Buy some commercial say 10 - 20 liter steel tank (type that you see in hospitals) and then fill your small tanks from that?


Howmuch do DIN to DIN hoses cost? so that I can transfer from one tank to another? O2 clean ofcourse

Teoman

Ant Slegg

A DIN/DIN whip O2 clean is available from AP Valves for not a lot of money *35GBP??) but of course DIN is (currently) a diving fitting. Oxygen kits (used for first aid for DCI for example) have a different fitting that has its origins in the medical use of gases. Two pins have to engage with the cylinder valve. This was intended to stop the patient getting the wrong gas! You therefore have to get the right type of cylinder or valve.

I suppose in the end it depends how much O2 you use and how difficult it is to get. The big problem is that as you decant off the O2 the pressure drops and you can quickly end up with a cylinder with 100bar in that is of no use to you. That's why Haskel pumps were created. These pumps are effectively pressure boosters and allow more gas to be use. See Jetsam Products Page for an example (and an example price!)

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Ant' S
Learning to dive since 1990...

zepp

Can I just say that been 02 clean IS important...this valve was apparentley 'clean' on my homebuild but blew up when opened!!!!

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I'm not a bad person.....HONEST
my homebuild photos http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...ery.php/cat/48
CLASSIC KISS #052

PhilSiswick

Ant,

I'm sure this was discussed a few times in the good old days of Scuba-UK. It'll be in the archives (at The Drogon Network [Search Scuba-UK and NDG]).

As I remember it, if you do the course, you can buy the stickers and clean your own cylinders. If you have the right stickers, who is to know that you did it yourself? I could be wrong - this is in the dim and distant past.

FWIW, as I'm in the UK and cleaning is easy to arrange, I grumble about the cost and hassle of O2 cleaning, but I'm not willing to forego it. I doubt my insurance would pay up if something blew up because my kit wasn't O2 clean and I can't readily afford to replace all my kit (contrary to the rumours ;-). There's also the potential for third party liability.

On that note, I'm off to good old Deep Dive to get a twinset cleaned. Hopefully it'll be the last time (not a trip to DD, which I always enjoy, but cleaning the wife's twinset :-).

Cheers,

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Phil

No comment on open circuit... it's an evolutionary dead end not really worth discussing here. Dave Sutton, 2007

I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007

www.hugsac.org.uk

Ant Slegg

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No arguments from here - O2 cleanliness is a necessity as that photo shows.
What irritates a little is the dive shop logic that Sticker=O2 clean.

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Ant' S
Learning to dive since 1990...

ardhill

Yep, but it is a VERY strong practice in the UK. Many shops would probably argue that it is actually law, it is that strong a practice.


There will not be many in the UK that will fill them for you. I don't know of any that will, but I only know of the ones that I use.


Due to the strength of desire to have the tanks O2 cleaned, you have as much hope of getting away with a home made sticker as you have of no sticker.

Those who don't want to clean annually, or clean themselves, normally fill themselves too.

I currently have a deco tank out of test, but as I fill myself at my dive club, I do it at my own risk. If I wanted to get that cylinder filled at a shop, I would need to get it O2 cleaned by a qualified technician and have a proper sticker saying so.

HTH.
.

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Paul

(Note: I currently don't dive a Rebreather, but dive OC. So if anything I say about breathers sounds suspect - it probably is)