YBODs in body recovery/salvage work in the Baltic Sea

jhaaja · 12th August 2005, 06:53

10th of August a Sikorsky helicopter crashed in to the Gulf of Finland. The helicopter was found quite fast on the seabed at depth around 50meters.

Finnish and Estonian divers have been bringing the deceased to the surface. At least the estonian professional divers are using YBODs. Finnish goast guard and navy divers might be using SIVA 55 or SIVA+ RBs.

Estonian divers companys page:
http://www.tuuker.ee/eng/

Carleton:
http://www.carltech.com/diving/default.html

Helsinikin Sanomat newspaper story:
http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/engli.../1101980567038

JH
Finland

jhaaja · 12th August 2005, 07:39

I think many know it. I have newer seen one. Those Carleton RBs are basically used only in military diving. They are really expensive. A few of my friends just finished the finnish navy diver course. They dived quite a lot with the SIVA 55 Rebreather.

The SIVA+ operating principle is quite interesting. It maintains nearly constant ppO2 without any electronics...

JH
Finland

decoweenie · 12th August 2005, 08:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja)

The SIVA+ operating principle is quite interesting. It maintains nearly constant ppO2 without any electronics...

How does it work ?

jhaaja · 12th August 2005, 09:32

The unit falls into constant ratio (Quasi-constant PO2) gategory.

It uses diluent and oxygen as feed gases. Diluent is added to the loop through an addition valve that is hydrostatically compensated. So the feed depends on dive depth. Oxygen feed is done by basic mass-flow valve. The mass-flow off course does not account for different metabolism rate of the diver. The Rebreather needs an overpressure valve to purge the excess gas from the loop.

I have read about the princible from Jeffrey E. Bozanics book "Mastering Rebreathers".

JH
Finland

decoweenie · 12th August 2005, 09:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja)

The unit falls into constant ratio (Quasi-constant PO2) gategory.

It uses diluent and oxygen as feed gases. Diluent is added to the loop through an (1) addition valve that is hydrostatically compensated. So the feed depends on dive depth. Oxygen feed is done by (2) basic mass-flow valve. The mass-flow off course does not account for different metabolism rate of the diver. The Rebreather needs an (3) overpressure valve to purge the excess gas from the loop.

I have read about the princible from Jeffrey E. Bozanics book "Mastering Rebreathers".

JH
Finland

I will look it up in Jeff's book, but what was explained above doesn't seem to be anything different than a standard (1) ADV, an (2) O2 mass flow valve and an (3) OPV so I fail to understand how it could achieve constant PO2 without any electronic...

jhaaja · 12th August 2005, 10:04

I might be wrong but I think the diluent valve is not like ADV. I think it feeds gas to the loop all the time, but the amount varies depending on depth

I have never seen one or dived one so I am just guessing. Need to do some thinking...

JH
Finland

sensor330 · 12th August 2005, 15:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I will look it up in Jeff's book, but what was explained above doesn't seem to be anything different than a standard (1) ADV, an (2) O2 mass flow valve and an (3) OPV so I fail to understand how it could achieve constant PO2 without any electronic...

The Siva + does maintain a constant PPO2 without electronics. I'm a navy diver so I have first hand knowledge of this Rebreather. Basically there is a constant flow of O2 at all times, and diluant is added in ratio to the depth thru mechanical means. The deeper you go the more diluant is added into the rebreather at a rate to maintain the desired constant PPO2 all O2 not metablized and excess dil are vented by relief valves. The RB also has a HUD so the diver can monitor the PPO2. The Siva + does not hold a constant PPO2 as close as a ECCR can but it does the job.

Scott

***caveseeker7*** · 12th August 2005, 16:13

The SIVA series are CC O2 or semiclosed mixed gas units.
Have a look at the pdf info sheets.

Janwillem recently added the Dräger SM1 (Self Mixing) SCR to his website, with plenty of specs and pictures. That self mixing SCR is a 60s design, so the idea, as usual, isn't new.

decoweenie · 12th August 2005, 16:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330)

The Siva + does not hold a constant PPO2 as close as a ECCR can but it does the job.

So how close does the SIva+ able to hold the PO2 ?

Let's say that the diver desires to have a constant PO2 of 1.2, what is the range of PO2 could the diver expect the unit to deliver at:

normal descent around 20m/min to 80m
stay at 80m for 20min
ascend thru the deco stop to surface

Thanks for the info.

***caveseeker7*** · 12th August 2005, 18:08

I split off the Viper as we were drifting off the subject further than wet cells correct readings.

Let's keep this at the recovery effort at hand and the units used to accomplish it.
Grimm task, recovering bodies ...

12th August 2005, 06:53	#1 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 884	YBODs in body recovery/salvage work in the Baltic Sea 10th of August a Sikorsky helicopter crashed in to the Gulf of Finland. The helicopter was found quite fast on the seabed at depth around 50meters. Finnish and Estonian divers have been bringing the deceased to the surface. At least the estonian professional divers are using YBODs. Finnish goast guard and navy divers might be using SIVA 55 or SIVA+ RBs. Estonian divers companys page: http://www.tuuker.ee/eng/ Carleton: http://www.carltech.com/diving/default.html Helsinikin Sanomat newspaper story: http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/engli.../1101980567038 JH Finland
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12th August 2005, 07:39	#2 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 884	I think many know it. I have newer seen one. Those Carleton RBs are basically used only in military diving. They are really expensive. A few of my friends just finished the finnish navy diver course. They dived quite a lot with the SIVA 55 Rebreather. The SIVA+ operating principle is quite interesting. It maintains nearly constant ppO2 without any electronics... JH Finland
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12th August 2005, 08:26	#3 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja) The SIVA+ operating principle is quite interesting. It maintains nearly constant ppO2 without any electronics... How does it work ? __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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12th August 2005, 09:32	#4 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 884	The unit falls into constant ratio (Quasi-constant PO2) gategory. It uses diluent and oxygen as feed gases. Diluent is added to the loop through an addition valve that is hydrostatically compensated. So the feed depends on dive depth. Oxygen feed is done by basic mass-flow valve. The mass-flow off course does not account for different metabolism rate of the diver. The Rebreather needs an overpressure valve to purge the excess gas from the loop. I have read about the princible from Jeffrey E. Bozanics book "Mastering Rebreathers". JH Finland
(Offline)

12th August 2005, 09:54	#5 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja) The unit falls into constant ratio (Quasi-constant PO2) gategory. It uses diluent and oxygen as feed gases. Diluent is added to the loop through an (1) addition valve that is hydrostatically compensated. So the feed depends on dive depth. Oxygen feed is done by (2) basic mass-flow valve. The mass-flow off course does not account for different metabolism rate of the diver. The Rebreather needs an (3) overpressure valve to purge the excess gas from the loop. I have read about the princible from Jeffrey E. Bozanics book "Mastering Rebreathers". JH Finland I will look it up in Jeff's book, but what was explained above doesn't seem to be anything different than a standard (1) ADV, an (2) O2 mass flow valve and an (3) OPV so I fail to understand how it could achieve constant PO2 without any electronic... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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12th August 2005, 10:04	#6 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 884	I might be wrong but I think the diluent valve is not like ADV. I think it feeds gas to the loop all the time, but the amount varies depending on depth I have never seen one or dived one so I am just guessing. Need to do some thinking... JH Finland
(Offline)

12th August 2005, 15:44	#7 (permalink)
sensor330 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 581	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I will look it up in Jeff's book, but what was explained above doesn't seem to be anything different than a standard (1) ADV, an (2) O2 mass flow valve and an (3) OPV so I fail to understand how it could achieve constant PO2 without any electronic... The Siva + does maintain a constant PPO2 without electronics. I'm a navy diver so I have first hand knowledge of this Rebreather. Basically there is a constant flow of O2 at all times, and diluant is added in ratio to the depth thru mechanical means. The deeper you go the more diluant is added into the rebreather at a rate to maintain the desired constant PPO2 all O2 not metablized and excess dil are vented by relief valves. The RB also has a HUD so the diver can monitor the PPO2. The Siva + does not hold a constant PPO2 as close as a ECCR can but it does the job. Scott
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12th August 2005, 16:13	#8 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,498	The SIVA series are CC O2 or semiclosed mixed gas units. Have a look at the pdf info sheets. Janwillem recently added the Dräger SM1 (Self Mixing) SCR to his website, with plenty of specs and pictures. That self mixing SCR is a 60s design, so the idea, as usual, isn't new. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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12th August 2005, 16:18	#9 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330) The Siva + does not hold a constant PPO2 as close as a ECCR can but it does the job. So how close does the SIva+ able to hold the PO2 ? Let's say that the diver desires to have a constant PO2 of 1.2, what is the range of PO2 could the diver expect the unit to deliver at: normal descent around 20m/min to 80m stay at 80m for 20min ascend thru the deco stop to surface Thanks for the info. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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12th August 2005, 18:08	#10 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,498	Viper Moved I split off the Viper as we were drifting off the subject further than wet cells correct readings. Let's keep this at the recovery effort at hand and the units used to accomplish it. Grimm task, recovering bodies ... __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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