Stop Time or Run Time

cedricverdier · 2nd August 2005, 10:27

Hi,

Just a quick poll about what you prefer for your software-generated tables: Do you use actual Deco stop times or do you prefer tu read Run times?

I personaly always found the run times rather inconvenient:
- It's less flexible if you are a little bit ahead of your schedule, as you have to recalculate the run times (unless you prefer to wait and merge in the existing run times)
- underwater, when your buddy asks you how long you have to stay at a certain depth, you have to figure out the actual deco stop time (and I hate counting underwater, as my brain becomes "spongy" deeper than 2 meters)

So if you are a great supporter of the run times, please convince me!!

Cheers

***schford*** · 2nd August 2005, 10:29

I just follow 2 computers

although everything gone completely wrong bail out tables are stop time / depth rather than run time.

Stuart

pchanning · 2nd August 2005, 12:45

For me its stop times and I do it the old fashioned way. Two gauges (no computer) and a slate with different plans (depths/ times).

Stop times:
- require minimal brain power (my math is bad enough at 1 ata)

- if the plan goes wrong its easier to look at the stop times to "see the curve". If I had to take a view and add a chunk of time (for some un-godly reason) it would make it easier to spread over the stops. Sort of deco-on-the-fly.

The old fashioned way because:
- Prior Preperation and Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance. Planning it before gets the dive into my head (I like being autonomous) so even if I dropped the slate I could well do it from memory.
- I've not yet been beneath 70m so the dive times aren't as critical as those doing the deeper stuff.
- If I had a gas computer and it went wrong, eg: read shallower than the gauge, my deco could well be out the window.
- no risk of the slate 'locking up' or;
- having insufficient battery life.
- I'm not in a hurry to get out of the water, mainly as tea tastes much better if someone else has made it for me

- oh yeah, and I'm cheap.

Simple is as simple does

***EBT*** · 2nd August 2005, 12:58

Both actually....

my stops are written out as time at the stop+exit runtime.

ie......

Depth 12 9 6
3/56 4/60 15/70

Belt and braces and all that.

/Zak

Andy Del · 2nd August 2005, 20:51

I prefer stop times, although my slate/tables always have both the stop time and run time written in. My personal theory goes...

Use a VR3 to extrapolate a sensible ascent.
Carry tables/slate. (a timer is hanging abhout as well) Stop times are for me to stop at, but the run time is used to verify where I am and how long I need to stay there if my brain goes all gooey, AND for when some one asks what my run time is before the dive.

PeteS · 3rd August 2005, 07:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by cedricverdier)

Just a quick poll about what you prefer for your software-generated tables: Do you use actual Deco stop times or do you prefer to read Run times?

Yes.

DDPlan generates tables with run times and stop times on it. If I'm out of sync with a tabled run time , say a computer went tits up, I just merge into the best available bale out table and off I go. This is always a longer schedule than the computer gave, but who cares, it's a bale out.

The run times seem easier to use as they are the times on the dive timer. The stop times are nice because I can easily see how much time I have to stop for.

So overall, "Yes" is the best answer to your question.

**RichClark** · 3rd August 2005, 08:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel)

Both actually....

my stops are written out as time at the stop+exit runtime.

ie......

Depth 12 9 6
3/56 4/60 15/70

/Zak

This is how I write my tables out... other than that, I dive my VR3.

Cheers

Rich

Mike · 3rd August 2005, 08:15

Run times only.

My theory is that if I'm on schedule, I can follow the run times, and there is no ambiguity - either I'm on schedule or not. If not then I'm forced to have a good long think about it.

In the past, using stop times only, I stuffed around at ~30m for about 5 minutes screwing up shooting a bag etc. And didn't take it into consideration, so just ran my planned stop times. (From memory it was a 30min at 40m type profile, first stop around 20m) running the profile later I probably missed somewhere around 10minutes of deco at the level of conservatism I'd planned for the dive. Not a big deal for this dive, but not a mistake I want to make again.

So my main plan is for run times only - if I get far enough off it I'm going to an alternate plan that is more suitable.

I find that I can do maths pretty well from 20m on up, and for the diving I do, thats plenty early enough to fix any run time / deco mistakes I may have made.

Mike

wizbang · 3rd August 2005, 22:05

I do runtimes. As Mike said if all is going to plan I just match the Timer to the run times. Simple. If I am off schedule then it is still simple math, add how much I am off to each runtime as I go.

It means I don't need to do any math until I am off schedule.
DD-Plan is great for producing tables etc, just awesome.

decoweenie · 4th August 2005, 03:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by wizbang)

I do runtimes. As Mike said if all is going to plan I just match the Timer to the run times. Simple. If I am off schedule then it is still simple math, add how much I am off to each runtime as I go.

It means I don't need to do any math until I am off schedule.
DD-Plan is great for producing tables etc, just awesome.

2nd August 2005, 10:27	#1 (permalink)
cedricverdier S21 M.I.B. Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Worldwide! Posts: 497	Stop Time or Run Time Hi, Just a quick poll about what you prefer for your software-generated tables: Do you use actual Deco stop times or do you prefer tu read Run times? I personaly always found the run times rather inconvenient: - It's less flexible if you are a little bit ahead of your schedule, as you have to recalculate the run times (unless you prefer to wait and merge in the existing run times) - underwater, when your buddy asks you how long you have to stay at a certain depth, you have to figure out the actual deco stop time (and I hate counting underwater, as my brain becomes "spongy" deeper than 2 meters) So if you are a great supporter of the run times, please convince me!! Cheers __________________ Cedric Verdier PADI Course Director, ANDI-IANTD-PSAI-TDI-DSAT-DAN-NAUI-CMAS Instructor Trainer Trimix (CCR and OC) and Cave Diving Instructor Trainer www.CedricVerdier.com DIRrebreather member
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2nd August 2005, 10:29	#2 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,559	I just follow 2 computers although everything gone completely wrong bail out tables are stop time / depth rather than run time. Stuart
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2nd August 2005, 12:45	#3 (permalink)
pchanning PFO free :) Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: fixed! Posts: 454	For me its stop times and I do it the old fashioned way. Two gauges (no computer) and a slate with different plans (depths/ times). Stop times: - require minimal brain power (my math is bad enough at 1 ata) - if the plan goes wrong its easier to look at the stop times to "see the curve". If I had to take a view and add a chunk of time (for some un-godly reason) it would make it easier to spread over the stops. Sort of deco-on-the-fly. The old fashioned way because: - Prior Preperation and Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance. Planning it before gets the dive into my head (I like being autonomous) so even if I dropped the slate I could well do it from memory. - I've not yet been beneath 70m so the dive times aren't as critical as those doing the deeper stuff. - If I had a gas computer and it went wrong, eg: read shallower than the gauge, my deco could well be out the window. - no risk of the slate 'locking up' or; - having insufficient battery life. - I'm not in a hurry to get out of the water, mainly as tea tastes much better if someone else has made it for me - oh yeah, and I'm cheap. Simple is as simple does __________________ Cheers Paul The key to enlightenment... is survival.
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2nd August 2005, 12:58	#4 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,969	Both actually.... my stops are written out as time at the stop+exit runtime. ie...... Depth 12 9 6 3/56 4/60 15/70 Belt and braces and all that. /Zak __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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2nd August 2005, 20:51	#5 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 422	I prefer stop times, although my slate/tables always have both the stop time and run time written in. My personal theory goes... Use a VR3 to extrapolate a sensible ascent. Carry tables/slate. (a timer is hanging abhout as well) Stop times are for me to stop at, but the run time is used to verify where I am and how long I need to stay there if my brain goes all gooey, AND for when some one asks what my run time is before the dive. __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
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3rd August 2005, 07:13	#6 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 533	Quote: (Originally Posted by cedricverdier) Just a quick poll about what you prefer for your software-generated tables: Do you use actual Deco stop times or do you prefer to read Run times? Yes. DDPlan generates tables with run times and stop times on it. If I'm out of sync with a tabled run time , say a computer went tits up, I just merge into the best available bale out table and off I go. This is always a longer schedule than the computer gave, but who cares, it's a bale out. The run times seem easier to use as they are the times on the dive timer. The stop times are nice because I can easily see how much time I have to stop for. So overall, "Yes" is the best answer to your question. __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
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3rd August 2005, 08:11	#7 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 778	Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel) Both actually.... my stops are written out as time at the stop+exit runtime. ie...... Depth 12 9 6 3/56 4/60 15/70 /Zak This is how I write my tables out... other than that, I dive my VR3. Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
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3rd August 2005, 08:15	#8 (permalink)
Mike Prism 'prentice Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 329	Run times only. My theory is that if I'm on schedule, I can follow the run times, and there is no ambiguity - either I'm on schedule or not. If not then I'm forced to have a good long think about it. In the past, using stop times only, I stuffed around at ~30m for about 5 minutes screwing up shooting a bag etc. And didn't take it into consideration, so just ran my planned stop times. (From memory it was a 30min at 40m type profile, first stop around 20m) running the profile later I probably missed somewhere around 10minutes of deco at the level of conservatism I'd planned for the dive. Not a big deal for this dive, but not a mistake I want to make again. So my main plan is for run times only - if I get far enough off it I'm going to an alternate plan that is more suitable. I find that I can do maths pretty well from 20m on up, and for the diving I do, thats plenty early enough to fix any run time / deco mistakes I may have made. Mike
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3rd August 2005, 22:05	#9 (permalink)
wizbang WEB MERMEN Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Vision Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth Australia Posts: 386	I do runtimes. As Mike said if all is going to plan I just match the Timer to the run times. Simple. If I am off schedule then it is still simple math, add how much I am off to each runtime as I go. It means I don't need to do any math until I am off schedule. DD-Plan is great for producing tables etc, just awesome.
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4th August 2005, 03:31	#10 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by wizbang) I do runtimes. As Mike said if all is going to plan I just match the Timer to the run times. Simple. If I am off schedule then it is still simple math, add how much I am off to each runtime as I go. It means I don't need to do any math until I am off schedule. DD-Plan is great for producing tables etc, just awesome.
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