Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience

robinzon · 6th May 2007, 12:12

Hey all,

I was recently at G Caymans and had a chance to try Evoltuion as a "rebreather experience". I dive OC but wanted to finally try/move to CCR. At any rate, things I did NOT like about the Evolution: mouthpiece is the cheapest POS I have ever seen

(cmon for that price tag you can get something a bit bigger ie Optima has a nice piece), swiveling closure of the circuit (I found that to be dangerous as opposed to having a handle), the BC is horrific with a thousand and one ways to tangle yourself - difficult to release. Now I have no rebreather experience but also Work of breathing is high (I hear Optima circuit is shorter for example and a little easier to breathe)... also when does the ADV kick in on the EVO? I had to use the diluent button all the time to fill up the CL .... What I did like is the new Vision Eletronics and the size... the unit is rel. small and well made.... ohh, almost forgot ... NO BOV VALVE

again for the price tag that should be Mandatory on it ....

Besides that the first 5 mins in the water were scary until you get a hand of filling counterlungs, controlling bouyancy, etc... there is certainly a learning curve... I dove with Divetech, which is the only CCR operation on the island.... as far as tech. diving they are great, though I do have to say I was dissappointed with most G. Cayman diving ops them included since they have that "here is the water go dive attitude..." (perhaps that is how it should be but I find that most other islands diving is much cheaper AND most dive boats really take care of you - ie sometimes its nice for someone to offer you the weights, change your tank, etc.... )

decoweenie · 6th May 2007, 12:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by robinzon)

I dive OC but wanted to finally try/move to CCR.

It is confusing to read that and see you selected Inspiration Classic as your unit under the avatar...

Quote:

Now I have no rebreather experience but also Work of breathing is high... also when does the ADV kick in on the EVO? I had to use the diluent button all the time to fill up the CL ....

Since you have not dived any Rebreather unit, how do you "measure" your experience on the WOB against ?

Do you know if your unit had an ADV ? Was there also an isolation valve, and turned on ?

Quote:

NO BOV VALVE

again for the price tag that should be Mandatory on it ....

I agree, but except for the KISS (which is even cheaper) all units in that price range still do not include BOV.

Mark Chase · 6th May 2007, 12:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by robinzon)

Hey all,

I was recently at G Caymans and had a chance to try Evoltuion as a "rebreather experience". I dive OC but wanted to finally try/move to CCR. At any rate, things I did NOT like about the Evolution: mouthpiece is the cheapest POS I have ever seen

(cmon for that price tag you can get something a bit bigger ie Optima has a nice piece), swiveling closure of the circuit (I found that to be dangerous as opposed to having a handle), the BC is horrific with a thousand and one ways to tangle yourself - difficult to release. Now I have no rebreather experience but also Work of breathing is high (I hear Optima circuit is shorter for example and a little easier to breathe)... also when does the ADV kick in on the EVO? I had to use the diluent button all the time to fill up the CL .... What I did like is the new Vision Eletronics and the size... the unit is rel. small and well made.... ohh, almost forgot ... NO BOV VALVE

again for the price tag that should be Mandatory on it ....

Besides that the first 5 mins in the water were scary until you get a hand of filling counterlungs, controlling buoyancy, etc... there is certainly a learning curve... I dove with Divetech, which is the only CCR operation on the island.... as far as tech. diving they are great, though I do have to say I was dissappointed with most G. Cayman diving ops them included since they have that "here is the water go dive attitude..." (perhaps that is how it should be but I find that most other islands diving is much cheaper AND most dive boats really take care of you - ie sometimes its nice for someone to offer you the weights, change your tank, etc.... )

The ADV fires when you bottom out the lungs and I guarantee you did that so it mus have been switched off (Isolated) The WOB is balanced around loop volume (ie did you have too much gas in the loop) and position of the counterlungs. (ie were they pulled down tight or riding up over your shoulders.

When i first dived a classic i thought the WOB was a bit high but i soon found out it was the fact i was trying to over inflate the counterlungs with my lungs that was causing the problem.

Running the correct loop volume takes practice. It wont happen straight away. As a result it will be a while before you feel you have a lid on the breathing. I dived the classic and the Evo and the WOB for those units is good compared to the KISS and Edo5.

AP are launching a BOV in the future but in the mean time there are many good BOVs available for the unit. The trade off is the weight of them in your mouth.

The mouthpiece may or may not have been standard but if it had the larger (Thicker) bite pieces it is the proper AP one. This feels odd at first but its done to open the jaw more and reduce C02 retention. Loads of people swap them out for other things but its important to understand that standard mouthpieces allow more c02 buildup than the AP item.

ATB

Mark Chase

Dave Crampton · 6th May 2007, 14:12

I find your post confusing. My first try dive was on the Inspo Classic. I had very little trouble with it, as the instructor had given me a nice brief on how to use it, for the purposes of the trydive. I didn't know about Min lung volume but over the hour I dived it it was fine, and venting through the cheeks, was very easy on the finishing ascent. The only new thing I found was the scilence and the lack of bouyancy adjustment with my lungs. Perhaps you read a lot up before hand and were expecting something else when you did the trydive.

Persevere and try several units until you find one which you are happy with after all, thats the purpose of a try dive isn't it?

robinzon · 6th May 2007, 18:11

I am not sure why you are confused.. again, as you have mentioned I would love to try the O2Ptima... as far as the mouthpice I am mostly talking about the length, its very short bite and my jaw was very fatigued... I am used to diving with my SeaCure which I think makes diving about 75% easier, I wouldn't dive without it... I am sure others were right in saying that the ADV was isolated, which was probably a poor choice for someone trying to dive the EVO for the first time. I do have to say that I got the hang of it after about 5-10 mins and it was a good dive, though I was quite tired after about 30 mins (then again I did 2 wall dives in the AM). Actually bouyancy becames fun with having counterlungs but if initially you are venting and suddenly you can't take a breath because couterlungs are empty and ADV is not helping it can be a bit scary having been used to OC easy air delivery thorugh my S600/MK25... as far as the mouthpiece again its so small its leaky..

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Crampton)

I find your post confusing. My first try dive was on the Inspo Classic. I had very little trouble with it, as the instructor had given me a nice brief on how to use it, for the purposes of the trydive. I didn't know about Min lung volume but over the hour I dived it it was fine, and venting through the cheeks, was very easy on the finishing ascent. The only new thing I found was the scilence and the lack of bouyancy adjustment with my lungs. Perhaps you read a lot up before hand and were expecting something else when you did the trydive.

Persevere and try several units until you find one which you are happy with after all, thats the purpose of a try dive isn't it?

joesympatico · 8th May 2007, 20:22

maybe you should try an optma since it far superior

please try before you cry, or keep it simple, and stay on OC

**nigelh** · 8th May 2007, 21:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by robinzon)

I dive OC but wanted to finally try/move to CCR. At any rate, things I did NOT like about...

You worry me.
You have all the buzz words but you don't describe the equipment that a good percentage of us dive.

A BOV is mandatory? No it isn't. Handy I grant but...
WOB is high? The Evo is amongst the lowest and it makes OC look sick.
The ADV... you did test it? But we always test it...
The harness must be snug so you wont get a custom made that you don't have to adjust on a try dive.
There's a learning curve? You haven't started yet.

You aren't going to find a rebreather that meets your obviously high standards. You want OC style: turn on the gas, put reg in mouth and dive. It isn't going to happen. Not in twenty years. Rebreathers change the way you dive but they make you become meticulous and careful. There are problems but they are not what you describe.

**wedivebc** · 8th May 2007, 21:43

Am I catching a whiff of troll here?

shell-back · 8th May 2007, 22:13

A wiff ?yea it looks stinky but Come on give the guy a break .
he just wants more info and can't seem to put it into words with the plethera of experts here

Here's my take, he tried the evolution.. he was a bit scared (good for him) he was shaking like a hound dog shitin a pinecone and he missed half of the briefing while his inner voice was screaming at him.

Welcome to the Rebreather World robinzon!

Gilles · 8th May 2007, 22:49

One should expect mediocre pleasure (at best) during first experience on Rebreather. There is much to learn about the relationship between buoyancy and loop volume, and controlling these so that you have perfect (and I mean perfect) comfort and control.

With time (10's of hours) you'll begin to understand why we are in love with CCR. Be patient as there is very much to learn.

You'll also need to tolerate the sometimes unfreindly (and often rather daft)remarks on this and other forums. Such is life. I can assure you, the learning value of Rebreather World far exceeds the above-mentioned negatives. There are also very many wise and gifted contributors. As in your diving, proceed with an open-mind, care, and tolerance.

Good luck and have fun.

6th May 2007, 12:12	#1 (permalink)
robinzon New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NY Posts: 34	Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience Hey all, I was recently at G Caymans and had a chance to try Evoltuion as a "rebreather experience". I dive OC but wanted to finally try/move to CCR. At any rate, things I did NOT like about the Evolution: mouthpiece is the cheapest POS I have ever seen (cmon for that price tag you can get something a bit bigger ie Optima has a nice piece), swiveling closure of the circuit (I found that to be dangerous as opposed to having a handle), the BC is horrific with a thousand and one ways to tangle yourself - difficult to release. Now I have no rebreather experience but also Work of breathing is high (I hear Optima circuit is shorter for example and a little easier to breathe)... also when does the ADV kick in on the EVO? I had to use the diluent button all the time to fill up the CL .... What I did like is the new Vision Eletronics and the size... the unit is rel. small and well made.... ohh, almost forgot ... NO BOV VALVE again for the price tag that should be Mandatory on it .... Besides that the first 5 mins in the water were scary until you get a hand of filling counterlungs, controlling bouyancy, etc... there is certainly a learning curve... I dove with Divetech, which is the only CCR operation on the island.... as far as tech. diving they are great, though I do have to say I was dissappointed with most G. Cayman diving ops them included since they have that "here is the water go dive attitude..." (perhaps that is how it should be but I find that most other islands diving is much cheaper AND most dive boats really take care of you - ie sometimes its nice for someone to offer you the weights, change your tank, etc.... )
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6th May 2007, 12:25	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience Quote: (Originally Posted by robinzon) I dive OC but wanted to finally try/move to CCR. It is confusing to read that and see you selected Inspiration Classic as your unit under the avatar... Quote: Now I have no rebreather experience but also Work of breathing is high... also when does the ADV kick in on the EVO? I had to use the diluent button all the time to fill up the CL .... Since you have not dived any Rebreather unit, how do you "measure" your experience on the WOB against ? Do you know if your unit had an ADV ? Was there also an isolation valve, and turned on ? Quote: NO BOV VALVE again for the price tag that should be Mandatory on it .... I agree, but except for the KISS (which is even cheaper) all units in that price range still do not include BOV. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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6th May 2007, 12:50	#3 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,418	Re: Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience Quote: (Originally Posted by robinzon) Hey all, I was recently at G Caymans and had a chance to try Evoltuion as a "rebreather experience". I dive OC but wanted to finally try/move to CCR. At any rate, things I did NOT like about the Evolution: mouthpiece is the cheapest POS I have ever seen (cmon for that price tag you can get something a bit bigger ie Optima has a nice piece), swiveling closure of the circuit (I found that to be dangerous as opposed to having a handle), the BC is horrific with a thousand and one ways to tangle yourself - difficult to release. Now I have no rebreather experience but also Work of breathing is high (I hear Optima circuit is shorter for example and a little easier to breathe)... also when does the ADV kick in on the EVO? I had to use the diluent button all the time to fill up the CL .... What I did like is the new Vision Eletronics and the size... the unit is rel. small and well made.... ohh, almost forgot ... NO BOV VALVE again for the price tag that should be Mandatory on it .... Besides that the first 5 mins in the water were scary until you get a hand of filling counterlungs, controlling buoyancy, etc... there is certainly a learning curve... I dove with Divetech, which is the only CCR operation on the island.... as far as tech. diving they are great, though I do have to say I was dissappointed with most G. Cayman diving ops them included since they have that "here is the water go dive attitude..." (perhaps that is how it should be but I find that most other islands diving is much cheaper AND most dive boats really take care of you - ie sometimes its nice for someone to offer you the weights, change your tank, etc.... ) The ADV fires when you bottom out the lungs and I guarantee you did that so it mus have been switched off (Isolated) The WOB is balanced around loop volume (ie did you have too much gas in the loop) and position of the counterlungs. (ie were they pulled down tight or riding up over your shoulders. When i first dived a classic i thought the WOB was a bit high but i soon found out it was the fact i was trying to over inflate the counterlungs with my lungs that was causing the problem. Running the correct loop volume takes practice. It wont happen straight away. As a result it will be a while before you feel you have a lid on the breathing. I dived the classic and the Evo and the WOB for those units is good compared to the KISS and Edo5. AP are launching a BOV in the future but in the mean time there are many good BOVs available for the unit. The trade off is the weight of them in your mouth. The mouthpiece may or may not have been standard but if it had the larger (Thicker) bite pieces it is the proper AP one. This feels odd at first but its done to open the jaw more and reduce C02 retention. Loads of people swap them out for other things but its important to understand that standard mouthpieces allow more c02 buildup than the AP item. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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6th May 2007, 14:12	#4 (permalink)
Dave Crampton CK #051 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bury St Edmunds, UK Posts: 278	Re: Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience I find your post confusing. My first try dive was on the Inspo Classic. I had very little trouble with it, as the instructor had given me a nice brief on how to use it, for the purposes of the trydive. I didn't know about Min lung volume but over the hour I dived it it was fine, and venting through the cheeks, was very easy on the finishing ascent. The only new thing I found was the scilence and the lack of bouyancy adjustment with my lungs. Perhaps you read a lot up before hand and were expecting something else when you did the trydive. Persevere and try several units until you find one which you are happy with after all, thats the purpose of a try dive isn't it?
(Offline)

6th May 2007, 18:11	#5 (permalink)
robinzon New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NY Posts: 34	Re: Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience I am not sure why you are confused.. again, as you have mentioned I would love to try the O2Ptima... as far as the mouthpice I am mostly talking about the length, its very short bite and my jaw was very fatigued... I am used to diving with my SeaCure which I think makes diving about 75% easier, I wouldn't dive without it... I am sure others were right in saying that the ADV was isolated, which was probably a poor choice for someone trying to dive the EVO for the first time. I do have to say that I got the hang of it after about 5-10 mins and it was a good dive, though I was quite tired after about 30 mins (then again I did 2 wall dives in the AM). Actually bouyancy becames fun with having counterlungs but if initially you are venting and suddenly you can't take a breath because couterlungs are empty and ADV is not helping it can be a bit scary having been used to OC easy air delivery thorugh my S600/MK25... as far as the mouthpiece again its so small its leaky.. Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Crampton) I find your post confusing. My first try dive was on the Inspo Classic. I had very little trouble with it, as the instructor had given me a nice brief on how to use it, for the purposes of the trydive. I didn't know about Min lung volume but over the hour I dived it it was fine, and venting through the cheeks, was very easy on the finishing ascent. The only new thing I found was the scilence and the lack of bouyancy adjustment with my lungs. Perhaps you read a lot up before hand and were expecting something else when you did the trydive. Persevere and try several units until you find one which you are happy with after all, thats the purpose of a try dive isn't it?
(Offline)

8th May 2007, 20:22	#6 (permalink)
joesympatico New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Newmarket Ontario Canada Posts: 29	Re: Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience maybe you should try an optma since it far superior please try before you cry, or keep it simple, and stay on OC __________________ Always dive with a briefcase: Sharks may mistake you for an attorney and leave you alone out of professional courtesy
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8th May 2007, 21:13	#7 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 787	Re: Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience Quote: (Originally Posted by robinzon) I dive OC but wanted to finally try/move to CCR. At any rate, things I did NOT like about... You worry me. You have all the buzz words but you don't describe the equipment that a good percentage of us dive. A BOV is mandatory? No it isn't. Handy I grant but... WOB is high? The Evo is amongst the lowest and it makes OC look sick. The ADV... you did test it? But we always test it... The harness must be snug so you wont get a custom made that you don't have to adjust on a try dive. There's a learning curve? You haven't started yet. You aren't going to find a rebreather that meets your obviously high standards. You want OC style: turn on the gas, put reg in mouth and dive. It isn't going to happen. Not in twenty years. Rebreathers change the way you dive but they make you become meticulous and careful. There are problems but they are not what you describe. __________________ nigelh
(Online)

8th May 2007, 21:43	#8 (permalink)
wedivebc FIGJAM Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,339	Re: Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience Am I catching a whiff of troll here? __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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8th May 2007, 22:13	#9 (permalink)
shell-back I do all my own stunts Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: middle of US Posts: 481	Re: Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience A wiff ?yea it looks stinky but Come on give the guy a break . he just wants more info and can't seem to put it into words with the plethera of experts here Here's my take, he tried the evolution.. he was a bit scared (good for him) he was shaking like a hound dog shitin a pinecone and he missed half of the briefing while his inner voice was screaming at him. Welcome to the Rebreather World robinzon! __________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge. ----Daniel Boorstin Billy Beal SDITDI IT #3507 Rebreather World FIGJAM commitee member
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8th May 2007, 22:49	#10 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 761	Re: Recent Evolution Rebreather Experience One should expect mediocre pleasure (at best) during first experience on Rebreather. There is much to learn about the relationship between buoyancy and loop volume, and controlling these so that you have perfect (and I mean perfect) comfort and control. With time (10's of hours) you'll begin to understand why we are in love with CCR. Be patient as there is very much to learn. You'll also need to tolerate the sometimes unfreindly (and often rather daft)remarks on this and other forums. Such is life. I can assure you, the learning value of Rebreather World far exceeds the above-mentioned negatives. There are also very many wise and gifted contributors. As in your diving, proceed with an open-mind, care, and tolerance. Good luck and have fun. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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