HELP! Techno-muppet needs advice...

Mdemon · 27th July 2005, 10:10

I removed the mouthpiece plate from my DSV yesterday and unfortunately, along with the screws came some SS springs, called IIRC helicoils. These allow the screws to grip onto them rather than the softer delrin.

Unfortunately, it seems you need a special tool to get the damn things back in...

So, two questions to all you kind engineers out there...

1) Any ideas how I can get these things back in?

2) Anyone know where I can get threaded inserts (brass or SS) so worst-case I can replace the helicoils?

It's just occurred to me I am in Scapa Flow for a diving holiday in 2 week's time... Not with a working DSV given the current situation...

(The picture below shows the four screw holes - you can just see the glint of the helicoils inside...)

***EBT*** · 27th July 2005, 11:33

http://www.toolsnextday.ltd.uk/Helic...coil_usage.htm
http://www.toolsnextday.ltd.uk/Helic...icoil_kits.htm

Padowan · 27th July 2005, 11:54

Do you reckon the Helicoils were a design feature of the original DSV ie they were fitted from the start, or perhaps the threads were stripped at some point in the past, and these used to repair them?

Looks like it's gonna be a reasonably expensive repair, John, the cheapest kits are about £25 for 10 inserts.

Have you thought about drilling all the way through and using a long, stainless bolt and small nylock nut to sandwich it all together (I don't know if there's sufficient material in the design to allow this, although knowing the physical size of the Bob, I would think there is room...), that way you could torque it up good and proper without the fear of stripping delicate plastic threads.

pchanning · 27th July 2005, 12:05

Surely you can fix it with double-sided and some no-more-nails

Seriously, if you havn't sorted out the problem by the time you're off to scapa you welcome to use my AP DSV.

Good luck

Mdemon · 27th July 2005, 13:09

Interesting idea on the drilling front... It is the original design feature too...

Thanks for the offer Mr GB - much appreciated! Will see what I can do in the meantime...

Simon A · 27th July 2005, 13:14

Short term, you may be able to thread the helicoils back in.
Failing that your local mechanic may have thread inserts and the tools to fit them (although for smaller sizes you may need a motorcycle mechanic)

HTH
Simon A

Scuba_Vixen · 27th July 2005, 17:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

I removed the mouthpiece plate from my DSV yesterday and unfortunately, along with the screws came some SS springs, called IIRC helicoils. These allow the screws to grip onto them rather than the softer delrin.

Unfortunately, it seems you need a special tool to get the damn things back in...

So, two questions to all you kind engineers out there...

1) Any ideas how I can get these things back in?

2) Anyone know where I can get threaded inserts (brass or SS) so worst-case I can replace the helicoils?

It's just occurred to me I am in Scapa Flow for a diving holiday in 2 week's time... Not with a working DSV given the current situation...

(The picture below shows the four screw holes - you can just see the glint of the helicoils inside...)

Interestingly, the insertion tangs are still in place, at least in the clearly visible upper left corner inset. (they are usually removed after installation) If the others are still in place as well, you can use a suitably sized dowel rod with a groove in one end as a makeshift insertion tool to put them back in.

Helicoil kits are normally stocked items in most auto parts and hardware stores though, so having one for future "emergencies" may be a good plan.

Darlene

mixedangased · 27th July 2005, 17:26

hi,what you need is timeserts,made by whurth,i`ve got 5 sets but the inserts are steel,i need to know the size of the thread on the bolts/setscrews to see whether or not i`ve got the right size kit to help,and if they sell the brass inserts,im in stroud glos by the way ,if i can help let me know, where r u ?.

Mdemon · 27th July 2005, 21:19

Well, that's very kind mate.

They are 3mm screws. If no joy with the coils, threaded inserts would be great, brass or steel (stainless!). I can take the screws to Pirtek - they have thread gauges...

Devon, but know a lot of nice people in your part of the world!

mixedangased · 28th July 2005, 19:01

hi ,just found helicoils on rs site m3x0.5 last resort i know,part no 291896 £3.24 for pack of ten,will keep looking & let u know if i find proper solid inserts brass/ss.

27th July 2005, 10:10	#1 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,926	HELP! Techno-muppet needs advice... I removed the mouthpiece plate from my DSV yesterday and unfortunately, along with the screws came some SS springs, called IIRC helicoils. These allow the screws to grip onto them rather than the softer delrin. Unfortunately, it seems you need a special tool to get the damn things back in... So, two questions to all you kind engineers out there... 1) Any ideas how I can get these things back in? 2) Anyone know where I can get threaded inserts (brass or SS) so worst-case I can replace the helicoils? It's just occurred to me I am in Scapa Flow for a diving holiday in 2 week's time... Not with a working DSV given the current situation... (The picture below shows the four screw holes - you can just see the glint of the helicoils inside...) __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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27th July 2005, 11:33	#2 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,970	http://www.toolsnextday.ltd.uk/Helic...coil_usage.htm http://www.toolsnextday.ltd.uk/Helic...icoil_kits.htm __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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27th July 2005, 11:54	#3 (permalink)
Padowan Proper Boffin Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 518	Do you reckon the Helicoils were a design feature of the original DSV ie they were fitted from the start, or perhaps the threads were stripped at some point in the past, and these used to repair them? Looks like it's gonna be a reasonably expensive repair, John, the cheapest kits are about £25 for 10 inserts. Have you thought about drilling all the way through and using a long, stainless bolt and small nylock nut to sandwich it all together (I don't know if there's sufficient material in the design to allow this, although knowing the physical size of the Bob, I would think there is room...), that way you could torque it up good and proper without the fear of stripping delicate plastic threads. __________________ Padowan The future's bright, the future's Yellow .....for now padowan.net - Latest Video: Scapa Flow Rebreather Diving
(Online)

27th July 2005, 12:05	#4 (permalink)
pchanning PFO free :) Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: fixed! Posts: 454	Surely you can fix it with double-sided and some no-more-nails Seriously, if you havn't sorted out the problem by the time you're off to scapa you welcome to use my AP DSV. Good luck
(Offline)

27th July 2005, 13:09	#5 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,926	Interesting idea on the drilling front... It is the original design feature too... Thanks for the offer Mr GB - much appreciated! Will see what I can do in the meantime... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

27th July 2005, 13:14	#6 (permalink)
Simon A Escapee from DIY Rebreather's Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 312	Short term, you may be able to thread the helicoils back in. Failing that your local mechanic may have thread inserts and the tools to fit them (although for smaller sizes you may need a motorcycle mechanic) HTH Simon A
(Online)

27th July 2005, 17:06	#7 (permalink)
Scuba_Vixen e/mCCR Dolphin Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: St. Croix USVI Posts: 557	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) I removed the mouthpiece plate from my DSV yesterday and unfortunately, along with the screws came some SS springs, called IIRC helicoils. These allow the screws to grip onto them rather than the softer delrin. Unfortunately, it seems you need a special tool to get the damn things back in... So, two questions to all you kind engineers out there... 1) Any ideas how I can get these things back in? 2) Anyone know where I can get threaded inserts (brass or SS) so worst-case I can replace the helicoils? It's just occurred to me I am in Scapa Flow for a diving holiday in 2 week's time... Not with a working DSV given the current situation... (The picture below shows the four screw holes - you can just see the glint of the helicoils inside...) Interestingly, the insertion tangs are still in place, at least in the clearly visible upper left corner inset. (they are usually removed after installation) If the others are still in place as well, you can use a suitably sized dowel rod with a groove in one end as a makeshift insertion tool to put them back in. Helicoil kits are normally stocked items in most auto parts and hardware stores though, so having one for future "emergencies" may be a good plan. Darlene
(Offline)

27th July 2005, 17:26	#8 (permalink)
mixedangased mixedangased Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: gloucestershire Posts: 60	helicoil replacement hi,what you need is timeserts,made by whurth,i`ve got 5 sets but the inserts are steel,i need to know the size of the thread on the bolts/setscrews to see whether or not i`ve got the right size kit to help,and if they sell the brass inserts,im in stroud glos by the way ,if i can help let me know, where r u ?. __________________ if it ain`t broke,fix it till`it is!
(Offline)

27th July 2005, 21:19	#9 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,926	Well, that's very kind mate. They are 3mm screws. If no joy with the coils, threaded inserts would be great, brass or steel (stainless!). I can take the screws to Pirtek - they have thread gauges... Devon, but know a lot of nice people in your part of the world! __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

28th July 2005, 19:01	#10 (permalink)
mixedangased mixedangased Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: gloucestershire Posts: 60	thread repair hi ,just found helicoils on rs site m3x0.5 last resort i know,part no 291896 £3.24 for pack of ten,will keep looking & let u know if i find proper solid inserts brass/ss. __________________ if it ain`t broke,fix it till`it is!
(Offline)

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