air driven Vs manual booster

**jmurba** · 24th March 2007, 19:31

Hi all,

2 years ago I bought a manual frau draeger booster, a state of the art booster.
For long I've thougth manual boosters were longer to fill tanks.
a couple of monthes ago I could see for the first time a micro booster working (it was a maximator).
I noticed the boosting process was very slow and that the booster could only add 100 bars to the supply pressure afert equalizing.
I amazed me cause I really experience very different condition with my manual booster,
once equalized passing from 100 bars to 200 take one minute, mabye 2 , in fact I can see the pressure gauge increasing at every stroke ,
the second thing that surprised me is that this small booster air consumption was mutch bigger then what I imagined.
the guy was using a 15 liter air thank, and we could see it emptying rapidly.

my question is, are all the micro boostr the same, or are there mutch better one that can fill a tank in a couple of minutes without emptying a whole scuba air tank ?

regards

jean mi

Barrie Law · 24th March 2007, 20:25

Hi Jean,

The performance of a Booster can be effected by;

* Booster design and the quality of the Manufacturer.

* Piston size and displacement

* Dead space in the head

* Air drive Single or Double acting

Generally the bigger the piston size the more efficient the Booster operates with the given Air Drive so it would use the air drive gas quicker but Boost more Oxygen at the same time.

The other key point would be to Boost Oxygen only using a double acting type that ensures drive air gas and Oxygen are not allowed to mix.

Other than that it comes down to price and availability as there are several manufacturers all producing small booster pumps.

Regards

Mark Chase · 24th March 2007, 21:14

I have a booster and I can say it will fill a 3ltr to 250 bar in a frighteningly short time on full power, but only if the feed tank has a good fill. Once the feed tank drops below 100 bar it takes much longer. Once it drops to 50bar it can take a whole 11ltr of air to boost my 3ltr to about 200 bar max. Often it doesn't even make the 200.

The pressure in the drive tank doesn't seem to be relevant. It pumps well right up until the dive tank is exhausted. The rate of fill seems to be totally dependent on the feed tank pressure.

ATB

Mark Chase

**jmurba** · 25th March 2007, 20:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I have a booster and I can say it will fill a 3ltr to 250 bar in a frighteningly short time on full power, but only if the feed tank has a good fill. Once the feed tank drops below 100 bar it takes much longer. Once it drops to 50bar it can take a whole 11ltr of air to boost my 3ltr to about 200 bar max. Often it doesn't even make the 200.

The pressure in the drive tank doesn't seem to be relevant. It pumps well right up until the dive tank is exhausted. The rate of fill seems to be totally dependent on the feed tank pressure.

ATB

Mark Chase

Hi mark,

so it is then same then me with my frau drager
I wonder why I alway attemp to fill my tanks up to 150 or 180 bars....I alway come back to the surface with 100 bars and always pump and pump....
I should fill the tanks up to 120 bars not more for a single dive.
On a one hour dive I use around 1bar/minute, (including prebreathing and o2 fushes) so it means 60 bars, I don't know why the hell I pump up to 180 bars !!!
regards

jean mi

**jmurba** · 25th March 2007, 20:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law)

Hi Jean,

The performance of a Booster can be effected by;

* Booster design and the quality of the Manufacturer.

* Piston size and displacement

* Dead space in the head

* Air drive Single or Double acting

Generally the bigger the piston size the more efficient the Booster operates with the given Air Drive so it would use the air drive gas quicker but Boost more Oxygen at the same time.

The other key point would be to Boost Oxygen only using a double acting type that ensures drive air gas and Oxygen are not allowed to mix.

Other than that it comes down to price and availability as there are several manufacturers all producing small booster pumps.

Regards

Hi Barrie,
thanks for details, in fact what I have to keep in mind is that a booster is not a compressors....arghhh
I sometime fill like to ordrer a rix oil free compressor to get rid of all this mess
the problem is that it does not get higer then 150 bars...but do I really need more then that????
regards
jean mi

Mark Chase · 25th March 2007, 22:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

Hi mark,

so it is then same then me with my frau drager
I wonder why I alway attemp to fill my tanks up to 150 or 180 bars....I alway come back to the surface with 100 bars and always pump and pump....
I should fill the tanks up to 120 bars not more for a single dive.
On a one hour dive I use around 1bar/minute, (including prebreathing and o2 fushes) so it means 60 bars, I don't know why the hell I pump up to 180 bars !!!
regards

jean mi

I have often had the same thaught

ATB

Mark Chase

**jmurba** · 29th March 2007, 08:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I have often had the same thaught

ATB

Mark Chase

Hi mark what do you think about the rix microboost oil free oxygen compressor? it seems to be a good solution even if the max pressure is 152 bars and even if it takes 45 minute to fill a 2 liter at 152 bars...
to be honest 152 bars are just enough for me , I think that Tom Rose has one.

regards

jean mi

Philippe GERIN · 29th March 2007, 14:39

Jean-Mi,
Keep boosting manually or you gonna have to resume jogging for your workout

By the way, I see the same thing as Mark on my Jetsam BabyBooster.
Best
Philippe

seppu · 29th March 2007, 15:38

hello
2 points for high pressure booster.
first,sometimes the mixing goes wrong.everybody now this situation.afternoon-filling,next day morning-analyseing,upps bad mix.now a topoff with helium or oxygen is easy.ok,be careful with oxygen.
second,this is a private rule.every tank have a second stage.full 2x3 liter.are ok for 40 meter quarrydives.a full 02 tank better than nothing.
gruss sepp
i use the little devil mo22

**jmurba** · 29th March 2007, 15:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by Philippe GERIN)

Jean-Mi,
Keep boosting manually or you gonna have to resume jogging for your workout

+++m'en parle pas je fais le régime depuis 3 mois(((-:

By the way, I see the same thing as Mark on my Jetsam BabyBooster.

+++ hem it seems to be a little bit the same with all booster ,
nevertheless last time when I saw the guy dumping 80% on his 15 liters air tanks to pass from 70 bars to 130 or so after a king of 20 ish minutes...it seemed to me mutch longer then with the frau drager with what you pump fast until it becomes nearly impossible to get higer and then you stop.
let's say that with the frauplus 100 bars is easy with at least 50 bars, plus 120 bars is possible after it is a pain in the neck

I am really interrested in the rix

regards

jean mi

Best
Philippe

aa

24th March 2007, 19:31	#1 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 672	air driven Vs manual booster Hi all, 2 years ago I bought a manual frau draeger booster, a state of the art booster. For long I've thougth manual boosters were longer to fill tanks. a couple of monthes ago I could see for the first time a micro booster working (it was a maximator). I noticed the boosting process was very slow and that the booster could only add 100 bars to the supply pressure afert equalizing. I amazed me cause I really experience very different condition with my manual booster, once equalized passing from 100 bars to 200 take one minute, mabye 2 , in fact I can see the pressure gauge increasing at every stroke , the second thing that surprised me is that this small booster air consumption was mutch bigger then what I imagined. the guy was using a 15 liter air thank, and we could see it emptying rapidly. my question is, are all the micro boostr the same, or are there mutch better one that can fill a tank in a couple of minutes without emptying a whole scuba air tank ? regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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24th March 2007, 20:25	#2 (permalink)
Barrie Law RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 726	Re: air driven Vs manual booster Hi Jean, The performance of a Booster can be effected by; * Booster design and the quality of the Manufacturer. * Piston size and displacement * Dead space in the head * Air drive Single or Double acting Generally the bigger the piston size the more efficient the Booster operates with the given Air Drive so it would use the air drive gas quicker but Boost more Oxygen at the same time. The other key point would be to Boost Oxygen only using a double acting type that ensures drive air gas and Oxygen are not allowed to mix. Other than that it comes down to price and availability as there are several manufacturers all producing small booster pumps. Regards __________________ Barrie Law Rebreather World Store Supplying the Rebreather World Tel:US +19548403892 Fax:US+19543333792 Tel:EU+442071930496 Fax:EU+442077606344 Mobile+353876880628 Skype:barrielaw Email: barrie@rebreatherworldstore.com
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24th March 2007, 21:14	#3 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: air driven Vs manual booster I have a booster and I can say it will fill a 3ltr to 250 bar in a frighteningly short time on full power, but only if the feed tank has a good fill. Once the feed tank drops below 100 bar it takes much longer. Once it drops to 50bar it can take a whole 11ltr of air to boost my 3ltr to about 200 bar max. Often it doesn't even make the 200. The pressure in the drive tank doesn't seem to be relevant. It pumps well right up until the dive tank is exhausted. The rate of fill seems to be totally dependent on the feed tank pressure. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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25th March 2007, 20:29	#4 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 672	Re: air driven Vs manual booster Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I have a booster and I can say it will fill a 3ltr to 250 bar in a frighteningly short time on full power, but only if the feed tank has a good fill. Once the feed tank drops below 100 bar it takes much longer. Once it drops to 50bar it can take a whole 11ltr of air to boost my 3ltr to about 200 bar max. Often it doesn't even make the 200. The pressure in the drive tank doesn't seem to be relevant. It pumps well right up until the dive tank is exhausted. The rate of fill seems to be totally dependent on the feed tank pressure. ATB Mark Chase Hi mark, so it is then same then me with my frau drager I wonder why I alway attemp to fill my tanks up to 150 or 180 bars....I alway come back to the surface with 100 bars and always pump and pump.... I should fill the tanks up to 120 bars not more for a single dive. On a one hour dive I use around 1bar/minute, (including prebreathing and o2 fushes) so it means 60 bars, I don't know why the hell I pump up to 180 bars !!! regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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25th March 2007, 20:36	#5 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 672	Re: air driven Vs manual booster Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law) Hi Jean, The performance of a Booster can be effected by; * Booster design and the quality of the Manufacturer. * Piston size and displacement * Dead space in the head * Air drive Single or Double acting Generally the bigger the piston size the more efficient the Booster operates with the given Air Drive so it would use the air drive gas quicker but Boost more Oxygen at the same time. The other key point would be to Boost Oxygen only using a double acting type that ensures drive air gas and Oxygen are not allowed to mix. Other than that it comes down to price and availability as there are several manufacturers all producing small booster pumps. Regards Hi Barrie, thanks for details, in fact what I have to keep in mind is that a booster is not a compressors....arghhh I sometime fill like to ordrer a rix oil free compressor to get rid of all this mess the problem is that it does not get higer then 150 bars...but do I really need more then that???? regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

25th March 2007, 22:55	#6 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: air driven Vs manual booster Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) Hi mark, so it is then same then me with my frau drager I wonder why I alway attemp to fill my tanks up to 150 or 180 bars....I alway come back to the surface with 100 bars and always pump and pump.... I should fill the tanks up to 120 bars not more for a single dive. On a one hour dive I use around 1bar/minute, (including prebreathing and o2 fushes) so it means 60 bars, I don't know why the hell I pump up to 180 bars !!! regards jean mi I have often had the same thaught ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

29th March 2007, 08:12	#7 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 672	Re: air driven Vs manual booster Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I have often had the same thaught ATB Mark Chase Hi mark what do you think about the rix microboost oil free oxygen compressor? it seems to be a good solution even if the max pressure is 152 bars and even if it takes 45 minute to fill a 2 liter at 152 bars... to be honest 152 bars are just enough for me , I think that Tom Rose has one. regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

29th March 2007, 14:39	#8 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 626	Re: air driven Vs manual booster Jean-Mi, Keep boosting manually or you gonna have to resume jogging for your workout By the way, I see the same thing as Mark on my Jetsam BabyBooster. Best Philippe
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29th March 2007, 15:38	#9 (permalink)
seppu i ko nix dafüa Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: bayern Posts: 184	Re: air driven Vs manual booster hello 2 points for high pressure booster. first,sometimes the mixing goes wrong.everybody now this situation.afternoon-filling,next day morning-analyseing,upps bad mix.now a topoff with helium or oxygen is easy.ok,be careful with oxygen. second,this is a private rule.every tank have a second stage.full 2x3 liter.are ok for 40 meter quarrydives.a full 02 tank better than nothing. gruss sepp i use the little devil mo22
(Offline)

29th March 2007, 15:44	#10 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 672	Re: air driven Vs manual booster Quote: (Originally Posted by Philippe GERIN) Jean-Mi, Keep boosting manually or you gonna have to resume jogging for your workout +++m'en parle pas je fais le régime depuis 3 mois(((-: By the way, I see the same thing as Mark on my Jetsam BabyBooster. +++ hem it seems to be a little bit the same with all booster , nevertheless last time when I saw the guy dumping 80% on his 15 liters air tanks to pass from 70 bars to 130 or so after a king of 20 ish minutes...it seemed to me mutch longer then with the frau drager with what you pump fast until it becomes nearly impossible to get higer and then you stop. let's say that with the frauplus 100 bars is easy with at least 50 bars, plus 120 bars is possible after it is a pain in the neck I am really interrested in the rix regards jean mi Best Philippe aa __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

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