"Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion?

Ben Field · 21st March 2007, 14:14

I'm so glad this is staying on-topic...

Anyway, good to know its not a completely cuckoo idea.

rusty · 21st March 2007, 15:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

I'm so glad this is staying on-topic...

Anyway, good to know its not a completely cuckoo idea.

Ben,

when I was diving my classic KISS and Sport KISS I had the valves at the top on both units and dove them in this configuration for the entire time I owned them. With the right valves I think this is the best for trim on both the KISS units. Just my personal opinion

curt · 21st March 2007, 15:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

Okay, this is a random thought thats crossed my mind...please comment/laugh as necessary.

Many rebreathers seem to be heavier at the bottom resulting in the butt heavy trim and back pain to which divers normally counter by adding weight at the top.

However many of the Rebreather divers I've met have more than enough ballast anyway so this additional lead is otherwise uneccesary.

If this is the case- Why not make the bottom end of the rebreather lighter/more buoyant instead?

That's precisely the reason that we designed the Abyss and Stingray with the valves at the top. It makes a huge difference in trim, and no additional trim weights are needed.

cheers...

decoweenie · 21st March 2007, 16:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by curt)

...the Abyss and Stingray with the valves at the top...

Are they reachable ?

Ben Field · 21st March 2007, 16:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Are they reachable ?

And there we have it... the major issue with running Rebreather tanks the "right" way up.

Its something I'd be willing to try but suspect I'd end up worrying about smacking them on overheads again (ala old twinset days)

UKSteve · 21st March 2007, 17:11

Can't for the life of me remember why this post sticks in my mind... but it addresses your very issue on the orribilis...

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/ourob...foam-base.html

Enjoy...

Steve

curt · 21st March 2007, 17:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Are they reachable ?

Yes, and shutdowns may be done in much the same way as with manifolded doubles.

decoweenie · 21st March 2007, 18:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

...suspect I'd end up worrying about smacking them on overheads again (ala old twinset days)

Depending how often you penetrate tight wrecks, but I found they are less bumped than facing down on surface - especially when gearing up.

decoweenie · 21st March 2007, 18:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by curt)

Yes, and shutdowns may be done in much the same way as with manifolded doubles.

I will take your word for it, but the position is not same as OC manifold IMHO.

DZLHED · 22nd March 2007, 01:29

After much consideration and a butt heavy MK15 I decided to put the Enrique cage at the bottom to good use and stuck a Spiracle DD-lite carbon fiber tank down there for bailout. I dive in warm water so my options are limited but this seems to have done the trick. I added about 2 lbs to the frame and am now for all intents and purposes neutral and trimmed beautifully. The tank was $425 USD but my back says worth it...

21st March 2007, 14:14	#11 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,621	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? I'm so glad this is staying on-topic... Anyway, good to know its not a completely cuckoo idea. __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
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21st March 2007, 15:06	#12 (permalink)
rusty Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Ouroboros rEvo Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA,Monterey,CA Posts: 171	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) I'm so glad this is staying on-topic... Anyway, good to know its not a completely cuckoo idea. Ben, when I was diving my classic KISS and Sport KISS I had the valves at the top on both units and dove them in this configuration for the entire time I owned them. With the right valves I think this is the best for trim on both the KISS units. Just my personal opinion __________________ Best Regards, Russ Sanoian U/W Sales 831-645-1082 www.backscatter.com Breaching the Boundaries of the Abyss With Underwater Imaging Innovations
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21st March 2007, 15:11	#13 (permalink)
curt New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rockville, MD USA Posts: 93	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) Okay, this is a random thought thats crossed my mind...please comment/laugh as necessary. Many rebreathers seem to be heavier at the bottom resulting in the butt heavy trim and back pain to which divers normally counter by adding weight at the top. However many of the Rebreather divers I've met have more than enough ballast anyway so this additional lead is otherwise uneccesary. If this is the case- Why not make the bottom end of the rebreather lighter/more buoyant instead? That's precisely the reason that we designed the Abyss and Stingray with the valves at the top. It makes a huge difference in trim, and no additional trim weights are needed. cheers... __________________ Curt Harpold US Representative Rebreathers Australia http://rebreathers.com.au/
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21st March 2007, 16:35	#14 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? Quote: (Originally Posted by curt) ...the Abyss and Stingray with the valves at the top... Are they reachable ? __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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21st March 2007, 16:50	#15 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,621	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Are they reachable ? And there we have it... the major issue with running Rebreather tanks the "right" way up. Its something I'd be willing to try but suspect I'd end up worrying about smacking them on overheads again (ala old twinset days) __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
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21st March 2007, 17:11	#16 (permalink)
UKSteve Steve Collard Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Weymouth, UK Posts: 598	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? Can't for the life of me remember why this post sticks in my mind... but it addresses your very issue on the orribilis... http://www.rebreatherworld.com/ourob...foam-base.html Enjoy... Steve
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21st March 2007, 17:31	#17 (permalink)
curt New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rockville, MD USA Posts: 93	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Are they reachable ? Yes, and shutdowns may be done in much the same way as with manifolded doubles. __________________ Curt Harpold US Representative Rebreathers Australia http://rebreathers.com.au/
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21st March 2007, 18:42	#18 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) ...suspect I'd end up worrying about smacking them on overheads again (ala old twinset days) Depending how often you penetrate tight wrecks, but I found they are less bumped than facing down on surface - especially when gearing up. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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21st March 2007, 18:51	#19 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? Quote: (Originally Posted by curt) Yes, and shutdowns may be done in much the same way as with manifolded doubles. I will take your word for it, but the position is not same as OC manifold IMHO. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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22nd March 2007, 01:29	#20 (permalink)
DZLHED Swimmin' upstream Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maui County, Hawaii Posts: 101	Re: "Butt heavy" Rebreather Trim- stupid suggestion? After much consideration and a butt heavy MK15 I decided to put the Enrique cage at the bottom to good use and stuck a Spiracle DD-lite carbon fiber tank down there for bailout. I dive in warm water so my options are limited but this seems to have done the trick. I added about 2 lbs to the frame and am now for all intents and purposes neutral and trimmed beautifully. The tank was $425 USD but my back says worth it... __________________ Aloha, Dieselhead To err is Human... to ccr, Divine. www.NorthShoreExplorers.com
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