Things to be aware of in Dorethea

**PhilSiswick** · 28th March 2007, 08:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by bletso)

The more lines from the surface to depth increases the potential for OW dives to do deep bounce dives.

I'd say that that is exactly the issue. In trying to make the site 'safer' by putting in lots of lines, the wrong behaviours have been encouraged. As I said, I've never been there, but I can't be alone in having heard myriad tales of horror along the lines of 'three divers, in semi-drys, with single cylinders and no bailout, were spotted after having done 85m in Dorothea'. Together with the stories of people being helicoptered out of Stoney, it's standard weekend fare....

Cheers,

Phil (working hard to avoid that avoidable cockup, but still waiting for it, as it's out there somewhere ;-)

**PhilSiswick** · 28th March 2007, 08:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

The shot lines are different. I'd happily see at least of them get removed but some of them are serving a good purpose. The rest are a waste of time but there are a lot of people who whinge they are there for safety i.e. you are never more than pissing distance from an ascent line when you're single cylinder of air goes into freeflow at 50m.

LOL. Sad, but by all accounts, all too true.

Cheers,

lizardland · 28th March 2007, 08:46

Dale,

that's exactly the problem but even when the lines weren't there then there was still the same number of trophy divers. The shot lines don't change anything, they just get in the way.

As for instructors tidying them up... when I first suggested it a year or two ago it was instructors doing the most whining about leaving them in.

Cheers,

Stuart

AM · 28th March 2007, 11:29

Instructors shouldn't even be diving there with no proper support infrastructure.

But I suppose it's better than teaching trimix courses in Stoney Cove!!!!

As for the ascent lines, no, I don't agree that they encourage deep diving, if anything, more people got bent without the line to the bottom as they tried to do a big long clusterf*ck swim to find the bottom and would get fixated while down there. The line gives them an easy marker to the 90m hut, cutting out a lot of travelling.

As for the other lines - you can't blame lines for people's lack of discipline. When people learn to dive, they are taught to dive within their experience and equipment. If they want to push those limits, they know the potential consequences and whether lines are there or not, those people will still push their own boundaries.

As for cleaning up the lines - the worst hazard of floating lines is at the bottom. I am not going to remove lines every time I find them underwater - there are lines on wrecks in the sea and people need to know that they exist and to carry knives.

As for the actual guidelines, I don't go around removing guidelines from in there. If they were badly laid lines in a cave, I would replace them, but in an open water site, there ARE badly trained divers that know NOTHING about navigation and these lines actually assist them when they decide to take deathly swims through tunnels on single tanks etc. It's easy to for more experienced divers to think oh surely nobody needs those lines but you get fools going in there on singles and no torches because there's ambient light at the surface, then they end up at 50m+ in pitch darkness, lost, like utter fools.

I leave the lines that I come across - in this sport, you pays your money, you takes your chances, you know the risks.

Regards

AnneMarie

***Decodiver*** · 28th March 2007, 19:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by am)

Instructors shouldn't even be diving there with no proper support infrastructure.

This is very true, last week I cancelled a course because my in water divemaster support put his back out.

I could have quite easily gone in with my two students, but where is my duty of care to them.

It has cost me a lot of money to cancel the course, but no support, no course.

It is the only way to operate IMHO.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Jon Adams · 28th March 2007, 19:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

This is very true, last week I cancelled a course because my in water divemaster support put his back out.

I could have quite easily gone in with my two students, but where is my duty of care to them.

It has cost me a lot of money to cancel the course, but no support, no course.

It is the only way to operate IMHO.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Dave

Professionalism,safety and integrity are in my opinion far better attributes than the ability to make a quick buck!

Well done

Jon

28th March 2007, 08:13	#11 (permalink)
PhilSiswick WSKD 0001 Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 923	Re: Things to be aware of in Dorethea Quote: (Originally Posted by bletso) The more lines from the surface to depth increases the potential for OW dives to do deep bounce dives. I'd say that that is exactly the issue. In trying to make the site 'safer' by putting in lots of lines, the wrong behaviours have been encouraged. As I said, I've never been there, but I can't be alone in having heard myriad tales of horror along the lines of 'three divers, in semi-drys, with single cylinders and no bailout, were spotted after having done 85m in Dorothea'. Together with the stories of people being helicoptered out of Stoney, it's standard weekend fare.... Cheers, Phil (working hard to avoid that avoidable cockup, but still waiting for it, as it's out there somewhere ;-) __________________ Phil No comment on open circuit... it's an evolutionary dead end not really worth discussing here. Dave Sutton, 2007 I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 08:14	#12 (permalink)
PhilSiswick WSKD 0001 Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 923	Re: Things to be aware of in Dorethea Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) The shot lines are different. I'd happily see at least of them get removed but some of them are serving a good purpose. The rest are a waste of time but there are a lot of people who whinge they are there for safety i.e. you are never more than pissing distance from an ascent line when you're single cylinder of air goes into freeflow at 50m. LOL. Sad, but by all accounts, all too true. Cheers, __________________ Phil No comment on open circuit... it's an evolutionary dead end not really worth discussing here. Dave Sutton, 2007 I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 08:46	#13 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,256	Re: Things to be aware of in Dorethea Dale, that's exactly the problem but even when the lines weren't there then there was still the same number of trophy divers. The shot lines don't change anything, they just get in the way. As for instructors tidying them up... when I first suggested it a year or two ago it was instructors doing the most whining about leaving them in. Cheers, Stuart __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 11:29	#14 (permalink)
AM Highly amused!! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Earth. Posts: 559	Re: Things to be aware of in Dorethea Instructors shouldn't even be diving there with no proper support infrastructure. But I suppose it's better than teaching trimix courses in Stoney Cove!!!! As for the ascent lines, no, I don't agree that they encourage deep diving, if anything, more people got bent without the line to the bottom as they tried to do a big long clusterfck swim to find the bottom and would get fixated while down there. The line gives them an easy marker to the 90m hut, cutting out a lot of travelling. As for the other lines - you can't blame lines for people's lack of discipline. When people learn to dive, they are taught to dive within their experience and equipment. If they want to push those limits, they know the potential consequences and whether lines are there or not, those people will still push their own boundaries. As for cleaning up the lines - the worst hazard of floating lines is at the bottom. I am not going to remove lines every time I find them underwater - there are lines on wrecks in the sea and people need to know that they exist and to carry knives. As for the actual guidelines, I don't go around removing guidelines from in there. If they were badly laid lines in a cave, I would replace them, but in an open water site, there ARE badly trained divers that know NOTHING about navigation and these lines actually assist them when they decide to take deathly swims through tunnels on single tanks etc. It's easy to for more experienced divers to think oh surely nobody needs those lines but you get fools going in there on singles and no torches because there's ambient light at the surface, then they end up at 50m+ in pitch darkness, lost, like utter fools. I leave the lines that I come across - in this sport, you pays your money, you takes your chances, you know the risks. Regards AnneMarie __________________ Attitude keeps you alive*
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 19:28	#15 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: Things to be aware of in Dorethea Quote: (Originally Posted by am) Instructors shouldn't even be diving there with no proper support infrastructure. This is very true, last week I cancelled a course because my in water divemaster support put his back out. I could have quite easily gone in with my two students, but where is my duty of care to them. It has cost me a lot of money to cancel the course, but no support, no course. It is the only way to operate IMHO. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 19:59	#16 (permalink)
Jon Adams New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic MK 15.X Ouroboros Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 39	Re: Things to be aware of in Dorethea Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) This is very true, last week I cancelled a course because my in water divemaster support put his back out. I could have quite easily gone in with my two students, but where is my duty of care to them. It has cost me a lot of money to cancel the course, but no support, no course. It is the only way to operate IMHO. Cheers, Dave Cooper. Dave Professionalism,safety and integrity are in my opinion far better attributes than the ability to make a quick buck! Well done Jon
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode