[Dave Sutton]

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

I think the Prism has a small LCD on the mouthpiece

Uhhh...... not.

Best HUD I've ever seen so far is the ordinary Mark-15/16 Primary held to the top of the exhale hose close to the DSV with a little surgical tubing. I'm using the LED upgraded Primary with Lumberg connector and associated (thin) cord to reaplce the old fat Bendix cable so the cord lays well along the breathing hose. Distance is far enough away to allow the diver to see the LED's and since they are color coded you can see instantly what the rig is doing. We're working now to make a miniaturized one to replace the full sized one which will be a plug-in exchange for the originals. These both give full status of the rig as they *are* the primary displays (IE they *are* the handsets)

'Boris has the other "fully usable" HUD. All of the others I have seen are "adjuncts" and not "replacements" for the handsets.


Dave

[heyydude]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Uhhh...... not.

Best HUD I've ever seen so far is the ordinary Mark-15/16 Primary held to the top of the exhale hose close to the DSV with a little surgical tubing. I'm using the LED upgraded Primary with Lumberg connector and associated (thin) cord to reaplce the old fat Bendix cable so the cord lays well along the breathing hose. Distance is far enough away to allow the diver to see the LED's and since they are color coded you can see instantly what the rig is doing. We're working now to make a miniaturized one to replace the full sized one which will be a plug-in exchange for the originals. These both give full status of the rig as they *are* the primary displays (IE they *are* the handsets)

'Boris has the other "fully usable" HUD. All of the others I have seen are "adjuncts" and not "replacements" for the handsets.


Dave

Dave,

The Mark 16 was the only model to have a HUD - the 15 has the 6 lamp Primary worn on the Left Wrist. The Mark 16 HUD is actually the Primary, and is worn over the Right Top of the divers mask (in all configs - Half Mask, AGA, M-48).

The Primary Display on the Mark 16 (Mod 0 & 1) is essentially an "idiot light" to put it succinctly. The diver is told Solid Green = Good.

Flashing Green, Flasing Red, and Alternating Red/Green = Bad.

Bad = Bailout. There are little, if any, exceptions to this.

There are several other reasons why a "replacement plug-in" won't work, but the simplest one is that all that comes out of a Mark 16 Primary connector is voltage for the 2 LED's in the display itself - no data for a "new" HUD to deal with (like displaying numbers instead of status).

Or were you talking about some other project?

And the Hammerhead Primary can tell the diver EXACTLY what the ppO2 is for each of 3 cells. How much more "Fully Usable" can you be??

Kevin.

[Paul Evans]

quote = Dave Sutton Uhhh...... not.

Best HUD I've ever seen so far is the ordinary Mark-15/16 Primary held to the top of the exhale hose close to the DSV with a little surgical tubing. I'm using the LED upgraded Primary with Lumberg connector and associated (thin) cord to reaplce the old fat Bendix cable so the cord lays well along the breathing hose. Distance is far enough away to allow the diver to see the LED's and since they are color coded you can see instantly what the rig is doing. We're working now to make a miniaturized one to replace the full sized one which will be a plug-in exchange for the originals. These both give full status of the rig as they *are* the primary displays (IE they *are* the handsets)

'Boris has the other "fully usable" HUD. All of the others I have seen are "adjuncts" and not "replacements" for the handsets.



OK.............

If this is the best you HAVE seen What would be the best you think could be developed, I ask this for a simple reason, as a test pilot you know more than most what a HUD can be capapable of.
A couple of years ago Oceanic proposed (but to my knowlege never sold) a Air intergrated HUD computer based on the principle used in Aircraft HUD's of projecting the image on the inside of the mask ( in the aircrafts case the cockpit canopy or a tranparent screen).
Cost is obviuosly a problem but is there no future in this technology

[heyydude]

Paul,

Let me respond:

Why does anyone dive? To see fish, to look for treasure, to get a porthole, to take some pretty pictures, or to attract Chicks.

For military dudes, it's to defuse a mine, to swim up to the shore to shoot some bad guys, or to do some quiet reconnaissance.

In all of these cases, NO ONE dives to stare at gauges, displays.

All you really need is some kind of monitoring system to let you know that you're o.k., you're not going to die.

I had a student once, who passed out at the bottom of the pool, because he was so busy staring at his Secondary. Go figure.

While it "sounds" nice to have a more complex HUD, the reality of it is (in my opinion, I hasten to add) that it is much ado about nothing.

"System Status" is all that is really necessary.

Will and I came up with the now famous "Smithers Code" as a way to tell divers in cave systems (who couldn't necessarily look at their Primary LCD displays if they were trying to get through a restriction) what their exact ppO2 was for each cell. Will argued it would give them confidence, and "quiet the chattering monkeys" as he called them. I thought it was a nice idea, but would detract from the diver's attention. Phi Le was the first "crash test dummy" to try it out (after Will) and he said after a while he loved it.

So - once I built the HH, I put both modes in there - so you have a choice.

Kevin.

[paulraymaekers]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Paul Evans)

quote = Dave Sutton Uhhh...... not.

If this is the best you HAVE seen What would be the best you think could be developed, I ask this for a simple reason, as a test pilot you know more than most what a HUD can be capapable of.
A couple of years ago Oceanic proposed (but to my knowlege never sold) a Air intergrated HUD computer based on the principle used in Aircraft HUD's of projecting the image on the inside of the mask ( in the aircrafts case the cockpit canopy or a tranparent screen).
Cost is obviuosly a problem but is there no future in this technology

hello, the rEvodream HUD gives you for each cell the PPO2, and the closer to the setpoint, the more accurate
.. and you don't have to count :-)
paul

[Dave Sutton]

Quote: (Originally Posted by heyydude)

Dave,The Mark 16 was the only model to have a HUD - the 15 has the 6 lamp Primary worn on the Left Wrist. .

Yup, but what I figured out is that if you take the old Mark-15 Primary (LED version or Incandescent version, makes no diff...), remove the straps, add two loops of small (1/8 diam) latex tubing, and slide the whole thing over the exhale hose, you can find a spot near the DSV where the entire thing is just visible at the edge of the mask. Works great... and if it bugs you in dark water you just slide it further out on the hose. Works better with re-done primaries that use Lumberg rather than Bendix cables as the old Bendix cables are really just too stiff to work well along the breathing hoses.

What we are building is simply a smaller version of the original Primary, with LED's replacing the old bulbs, and with the resistors for the LED's remotely located about halfway down the cord to the rig (in a potted tube that lays along the center section inside the shell). This way we can make a "mini-primary" about 1/3 the length of the old one and it'll be a better primary for either wrist or exhale hose mounting. The old primary housing are, as you know, sized to accept the incandescent bulbs. Once we go to LED's we can (A) make the housing smaller and (B) pot the entire thing as we never need to change bulbs in the thing. Think a 2 inch length of clear tubing with a cord on one end and LED's potted internally. Wear it either on the wrist or on the exhale hose.

And, err...... *one day* I'll have a cool HH system on the Mark-15 , but will not have a HUD, will I since it's driven from the secondary on the HH and I'm keeping the old secondary....

And yes the Smithers Code HUD's work well... it's what is on the bailout breather.


Dave

[heyydude]

Ahh. I see.

Just don't talk about the Mark 16 and 15 electronics in the same sentence. They are vastly different beasts, even though some may think they're the same.

And if I told you how they are different, I'd have to kill you. Then everyone on Rebreather World would hate me.



Kevin.

[Dave Sutton]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Paul Evans)

If this is the best you HAVE seen What would be the best you think could be developed,

What would be optimal would be a mask-integrated HUD as per what Oceanic is releasing this month. I've actually considered buying one to use in gauge mode, as having depth/time/PSI data in the mask would be neat, but Oceanic got it *all wrong* in gauge mode for their new toy. You cannot have depth and time displayed at the same time! Go figure... But this technology is obviously the right one, just needs to be totally integrated into the rebreathers electronics system. I'm sure it'll happen, just not tomorrow.

There's a huge difference between a "dream list" and what we can have today. I still like the Mark-15's primary as a HUD-type display as it shows all I need to know in one sweep of the eye, and mounting it up where it's in front of my face makes me as happy as I need to be (today). All of the other schemes work too. Smithers-Code works fine. 'Boris has some neat features (blue light for solenoid commanded to open). Paul's system is fine too, I am sure. Bottom line is that a diver will adapt to whatever he has. Until we get a mask-mounted TRUE heads up display system (meaning projected digits focused at infinity superimposed on the main visual field) we'll be sub-optimal. The Oceanic mask as of today is state of the art as far as display technology is concerned, it's just that the application and software as of today don't do anything for the Rebreather diver.

Dave

[decoweenie]

Quote: (Originally Posted by heyydude)

...Phi Le was the first "crash test dummy" to try it out (after Will) and he said after a while he loved it...

And still do ever since then, I just think it is such a brilliant idea!

I have used quite a number of HUD types for diving, and still want the Smithers code if given a choice for a number of reasons:

• If you messed up and forgot, it actually reminds you to switch set-point (if you do low/high SPs on a dive).
• You know that it is working and not froze up (i.e. had them too on others).
• Don't have to remember what different flashing sequences mean and how far the PO2 is relative to the SP according to the flashing sequences.
• You don't "count" per-say, it becomes instinctive from the flash duration. People who think you have to count have never tried it.

However, I like the way that Bruce implemented the Smithers code into a HUD the best: all 3 LEDs flashing at once.

It makes it so simple to recognize when 1 of the sensors is out of synch relative to the others since there will be a single blink more/less.

IMHO, I would love to combining what we currently have in the HUD market into this ideal (for me) combination:

• 3 cell blinking (red/green) Smithers code together (Shearwater)
• 1 additional LED (white) blinks when solenoid fires (Boris)
• 1 additional LED (blue ?) for deco information (Boris)

It could be arranged into a single long HUD, or split into 2 HUDs on both side to make it easier to distinguish.

[decoweenie]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

What would be optimal would be a mask-integrated HUD as per what Oceanic is releasing this month. I've actually considered buying one to use in gauge mode, as having depth/time/PSI data in the mask would be neat, but Oceanic got it *all wrong* in gauge mode for their new toy. You cannot have depth and time displayed at the same time! Go figure...

Nor could you receive multiple HP transmitters in gauge mode (as already discussed on another thread)...

I have asked Oceanic to consider changing their gauge mode configuration to allow multiple transmitters (to replace 2 SPGs on CCR), and was asked to give them a month (until end of March) to study this request.

If it happens, I will request for the same change in the gauge mode for the mask-HUD, as well as depth/time at same time, since I am also interested in the mask.