what FFM should I get for my new optima?

Icarusflies · 7th March 2007, 00:08

Hello All;

I have pretty much decided to buy an optima as my first CCR. Since safety is my main concern I also want to buy a FFM. Which one is the most widely used and safest?

Thank you for your comments

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 7th March 2007, 03:36

SeaFox has a full face mask setup on his Optima. You might want to ask him about his unit.

seafox · 7th March 2007, 16:36

I use an AGA/Interspiro FFM with coms and integrated BOV (Bail out valve)
I bought this setup for specific missions and it fullfills my requirements very well.
It is however a more complex set up to use for starting out and a great deal more expensive.
I suggest that you start with a BOV.
My BOV is from Divematics, and is excellent. There are other BOV's on the market that are excellent as well.
I suggest you do some research and pick the one that best suits your needs. There a few threads on this board that can make this task easier.
For safety's sake, get a BOV! ( Yes I feel strongly about that!)
Congratulations on your move to a CCR and an Optima.
You will never look back!

Cornel

Icarusflies · 7th March 2007, 23:37

Thank you for the info;

Is there another way to keep the mouth piece in the mouth in the case that the diver looses consciousness besides a FFM? This is the main reason why I ask about the FFM.

I ll definitely get a BOV.

seafox · 8th March 2007, 01:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by Icarusflies)

Thank you for the info;

Is there another way to keep the mouth piece in the mouth in the case that the diver looses consciousness besides a FFM? This is the main reason why I ask about the FFM.

I ll definitely get a BOV.

I know of some divers that use a bungee type necklace.
However, staying ahead of the problem is also great survival tool.
Do your best to prevent potential problems such as hypoxia by always using checklists to verify that everything works, that valves are open, ect......, frequently checking your pp02, practice emergency skills often, so that muscle memory takes over in an emergency.
Respecting the manufacturers time limits of the scrubber to prevent C02 hits, as well as being continuously self aware, ie: breathing rate, stress level, ect...
Follow learned procedures religiously, be an independent diver, yet a team player, always carry (caluculated, not guessed) enough B/O to get your butt to the surface, always and every dive, no exceptions.
Dive progressively and within your skills and limits.
And don't forget to have fun!

Cornel

Icarusflies · 8th March 2007, 10:06

Thank you seafox.

For the moment I don't plan to go deaper than 130' what bail out would you recomend? do you you conect you BOV onboard or offboard?

My first reaction is to get as much onboard gas as possible (27 cuf), I can carry the weight and connect the BOV on board. Then have the bail out in the case that my CCR or OC buddy need air.

I must say that I am not a very experienced diver with 60 dives since last June but I a pay a lot of attention to my diving and I feel very comfortable in the water.

seafox · 8th March 2007, 19:56

I suggest that you calculate your B/O requirements for every dive.
After a while you can standardize with a certain amount of gas on dive with similar profiles..
ie: for dive to 60' for 60 minutes I need X cuft of gas, for 90' for 45 mins, I need X cuft of gas, ect......
I am sure your instructor has covered this.
Refresher: to calculate B/O: RMVxATAxTIME
ie: dive 70' for 45 mins
70"=3.12 ATA
B/O Calculation:
3 mins to sort out the reason you're B/O .7x3.1x3 (I am using .7 for RMV, you're mileage may vary)
Ascent .7x3.1x2
Safety Stop .7x1.6x3
To surface .7x1.6x2

That's adds up to 16.45 cuft, ADD 33% reserve =21.88 cuft.

So for your dive 45 mins @ 70' you will need to carry a minimum of 22 cuft of B/O.
Oviously on dives where you have a deco obligation, you will have to add that!
So an AL 40 under your arm will do just fine for this dive.

I connect my BOV to my outboard bottle with a QD.
On my B/O bottle I have 2 hoses each with a QD.
One for the BOV and one for the CL should I need to connect.
I also have reg on a 5' hose.
I use either the 27 or the AL 13 cuft depending whether I am home or travelling.
However, and this is my choice: I don't rely on my onboard gas for B/O, so I ALWAYS carry a B/O bottle.
BTW 60 dives since last June is very good. You are well on your way.
Please don't get complacent, use checklists, and practice drills.

Take care,

Cornel

chunter · 8th March 2007, 20:13

My feeling with FFMs (and I know there are those who disagree), is that they introduce more problems than they solve. I have owned and used FFMs with my units, and I have found them to be cumbersome, and most make OC bailout much more difficult.

The best way to prevent drowning from loss of consciousness is to avoid becoming unconscious. Keep a good eye you your PPO2, and do all of your maintenance and pre-dive checks religiously, and don't push your CNS or other limits. It sounds like you are new to rebreathers (and if you are not, please excuse me). By diving a rebreather, you are about to change your configuration drastically already, even if you don't use a FFM with it. Personally, I would take things one-step at a time. I would log some hours on the unit with a standard configuration before adding any major additions.

Aloha,
Charlie

Quote: (Originally Posted by Icarusflies)

Thank you for the info;

Is there another way to keep the mouth piece in the mouth in the case that the diver looses consciousness besides a FFM? This is the main reason why I ask about the FFM.

I ll definitely get a BOV.

Icarusflies · 9th March 2007, 00:08

Thank you guys for the info, specially you Seafox for the details. The more I learn about CCR the more I understand that the safty or danger relays on the diver and not the machine.

7th March 2007, 00:08	#1 (permalink)
Icarusflies New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 52	what FFM should I get for my new optima? Hello All; I have pretty much decided to buy an optima as my first CCR. Since safety is my main concern I also want to buy a FFM. Which one is the most widely used and safest? Thank you for your comments
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7th March 2007, 03:36	#2 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,937	Re: what FFM should I get for my new optima? SeaFox has a full face mask setup on his Optima. You might want to ask him about his unit. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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7th March 2007, 16:36	#3 (permalink)
seafox 02ptima Instructor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TORONTO, CANADA -Have "02ptima" will travel! Posts: 172	Re: what FFM should I get for my new optima? I use an AGA/Interspiro FFM with coms and integrated BOV (Bail out valve) I bought this setup for specific missions and it fullfills my requirements very well. It is however a more complex set up to use for starting out and a great deal more expensive. I suggest that you start with a BOV. My BOV is from Divematics, and is excellent. There are other BOV's on the market that are excellent as well. I suggest you do some research and pick the one that best suits your needs. There a few threads on this board that can make this task easier. For safety's sake, get a BOV! ( Yes I feel strongly about that!) Congratulations on your move to a CCR and an Optima. You will never look back! Cornel __________________ Protect the SHARKS! Excellence is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution and the vision to see obstacles as opportunities. Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards!
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7th March 2007, 23:37	#4 (permalink)
Icarusflies New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 52	Re: what FFM should I get for my new optima? Thank you for the info; Is there another way to keep the mouth piece in the mouth in the case that the diver looses consciousness besides a FFM? This is the main reason why I ask about the FFM. I ll definitely get a BOV.
(Online)

8th March 2007, 01:39	#5 (permalink)
seafox 02ptima Instructor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TORONTO, CANADA -Have "02ptima" will travel! Posts: 172	Re: what FFM should I get for my new optima? Quote: (Originally Posted by Icarusflies) Thank you for the info; Is there another way to keep the mouth piece in the mouth in the case that the diver looses consciousness besides a FFM? This is the main reason why I ask about the FFM. I ll definitely get a BOV. I know of some divers that use a bungee type necklace. However, staying ahead of the problem is also great survival tool. Do your best to prevent potential problems such as hypoxia by always using checklists to verify that everything works, that valves are open, ect......, frequently checking your pp02, practice emergency skills often, so that muscle memory takes over in an emergency. Respecting the manufacturers time limits of the scrubber to prevent C02 hits, as well as being continuously self aware, ie: breathing rate, stress level, ect... Follow learned procedures religiously, be an independent diver, yet a team player, always carry (caluculated, not guessed) enough B/O to get your butt to the surface, always and every dive, no exceptions. Dive progressively and within your skills and limits. And don't forget to have fun! Cornel __________________ Protect the SHARKS! Excellence is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution and the vision to see obstacles as opportunities. Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards!
(Offline)

8th March 2007, 10:06	#6 (permalink)
Icarusflies New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 52	Re: what FFM should I get for my new optima? Thank you seafox. For the moment I don't plan to go deaper than 130' what bail out would you recomend? do you you conect you BOV onboard or offboard? My first reaction is to get as much onboard gas as possible (27 cuf), I can carry the weight and connect the BOV on board. Then have the bail out in the case that my CCR or OC buddy need air. I must say that I am not a very experienced diver with 60 dives since last June but I a pay a lot of attention to my diving and I feel very comfortable in the water.
(Online)

8th March 2007, 19:56	#7 (permalink)
seafox 02ptima Instructor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TORONTO, CANADA -Have "02ptima" will travel! Posts: 172	Re: what FFM should I get for my new optima? I suggest that you calculate your B/O requirements for every dive. After a while you can standardize with a certain amount of gas on dive with similar profiles.. ie: for dive to 60' for 60 minutes I need X cuft of gas, for 90' for 45 mins, I need X cuft of gas, ect...... I am sure your instructor has covered this. Refresher: to calculate B/O: RMVxATAxTIME ie: dive 70' for 45 mins 70"=3.12 ATA B/O Calculation: 3 mins to sort out the reason you're B/O .7x3.1x3 (I am using .7 for RMV, you're mileage may vary) Ascent .7x3.1x2 Safety Stop .7x1.6x3 To surface .7x1.6x2 That's adds up to 16.45 cuft, ADD 33% reserve =21.88 cuft. So for your dive 45 mins @ 70' you will need to carry a minimum of 22 cuft of B/O. Oviously on dives where you have a deco obligation, you will have to add that! So an AL 40 under your arm will do just fine for this dive. I connect my BOV to my outboard bottle with a QD. On my B/O bottle I have 2 hoses each with a QD. One for the BOV and one for the CL should I need to connect. I also have reg on a 5' hose. I use either the 27 or the AL 13 cuft depending whether I am home or travelling. However, and this is my choice: I don't rely on my onboard gas for B/O, so I ALWAYS carry a B/O bottle. BTW 60 dives since last June is very good. You are well on your way. Please don't get complacent, use checklists, and practice drills. Take care, Cornel __________________ Protect the SHARKS! Excellence is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution and the vision to see obstacles as opportunities. Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards! Last edited by seafox : 8th March 2007 at 20:01.
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8th March 2007, 20:13	#8 (permalink)
chunter I like diving Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Classic Kiss Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Honolulu Posts: 463	Re: what FFM should I get for my new optima? My feeling with FFMs (and I know there are those who disagree), is that they introduce more problems than they solve. I have owned and used FFMs with my units, and I have found them to be cumbersome, and most make OC bailout much more difficult. The best way to prevent drowning from loss of consciousness is to avoid becoming unconscious. Keep a good eye you your PPO2, and do all of your maintenance and pre-dive checks religiously, and don't push your CNS or other limits. It sounds like you are new to rebreathers (and if you are not, please excuse me). By diving a rebreather, you are about to change your configuration drastically already, even if you don't use a FFM with it. Personally, I would take things one-step at a time. I would log some hours on the unit with a standard configuration before adding any major additions. Aloha, Charlie Quote: (Originally Posted by Icarusflies) Thank you for the info; Is there another way to keep the mouth piece in the mouth in the case that the diver looses consciousness besides a FFM? This is the main reason why I ask about the FFM. I ll definitely get a BOV. __________________ "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Emerson "Hobgoblin is a cool word." - Charlie
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9th March 2007, 00:08	#9 (permalink)
Icarusflies New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 52	Re: what FFM should I get for my new optima? Thank you guys for the info, specially you Seafox for the details. The more I learn about CCR the more I understand that the safty or danger relays on the diver and not the machine.
(Online)

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