dual O2 controller / two displays

Icarusflies · 28th February 2007, 00:21

Hello All;

I am looking into buying a rebreather and for what I read CCR's are the way to go. My main priority is safety so I was wondering about which CCR offers the most safety oriented features. I am particularly interested in the dual O2 controller of the evolution/inspiration that looks like a very good idea. Forgive my ignorance in the subject but I see many rebreathers that use dual displays and I think that even if the display goes bad but the O2 controller will still works fine and the rebreather will perform so a dual controller with one display looks like the way to go....No?

Also I am looking at the optima since I am close to a large distributor (diverite express). Should I be concerned about this being a new product that has not been field tested???

PaulTG2 · 28th February 2007, 02:24

Hello,

Every has their own beliefs in this area. I don't think that any of the manufactured systems are seriously flawed -- it is just a matter of what your personal approach is and what trade-offs the unit has (all units have trade-offs)

My recommendation is that you'll choose best after you spend some time working to understand the real issues that each configuration presents. From there decide, based on your beliefs and diving style, which Rebreather takes care of your most important concerns and issues.

I learned a lot from reading postings on Rebreather World about the problems people have with the various electronics on different rebreather models. From flooding cables and handsets, battery voltage issues, cracks, lockups, communications problems, temperature issues, etc. Often what seems like the best idea doesn't work so well in reality.

*MY* research and personal beliefs led me to look for the simplest, most rugged and reliable controller with a completely separate PO2 backup monitoring system with HUD. This included forgoing the on-board deco to simplify the Rebreather electronics (and provide more flexibility via off-board deco computer). Even in seeking this there were trade-offs as I also considered the overall flexibility of various models to meet *MY* needs and desires. I didn't end up with a perfect solution -- just one I thought was the best set of trade-offs for *ME*.

In the end the most important safety issues for rebreather diving isn't a part of your rebreather. Your continued personal dedication to ongoing training, practice, and ultimate proficiency will be far more important than what model Rebreather you choose.

--Paul

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 28th February 2007, 02:39

Come dive with us on the Florida S.C.R.U.B. outings, and you will get to see a variety of CCRs in action.

***caveseeker7*** · 28th February 2007, 03:40

As mentioned, the electronics, like most everything else on a Rebreather, are personal preference. I for one don't particulary care if a CCR has one setpoint controller (as most units do), two (as the APD rigs have) or three (as the Cis-Lunar have) or none at all (as manually controlled CCRs have) as long as there is an independent display that lets you monitor the pO2. The only rebreathers I can think of that don't have that feature standard and from the factory were the CCR2000 and the AP units. on the former it was optional, on the latter you need to go to the aftermarket. IMHO diving any CCR without a redundant (i.e. separate display, separate power source (if any), seprate wiring, all of it independent from the "main" electronics) just isn't a good idea.

The Vision electronics have a nicely made handset and display, and I like the fiberoptics use for the HUD as well as the temp stick. I would however prefer the Hammerhead electronics from Juergensen Marine, as a replacement for the Classic electronics or with an Optima. The electronics have proven themselves in many different CCRs over the years, and the layout with primary, secondary and DIVA HUD appeals much more to me than a dual setpoint controller without a separate, independent pO2 monitor.

Icarusflies · 28th February 2007, 09:53

Thank you for your replays;

For what I read in the forum I see that most of the eCCR are chosen to be operated manually with the electronics as a back up which I think give a big margin in security. This style of diving should minimize the hypoxic / hyperoxyc problem caused by malfunction as long as your check your displays often (good point in favor of dual displays) . I see that many divers manifest a concern about hypercapnia since there is no was to monitor it; Does the extended air cartridge give a advantage in security?

***EBT*** · 28th February 2007, 12:39

Icarus, you can use the search function to turn up loads of previous discussions on this very subject. Extendair cartridges are sometimes abbreviated to EAC, when you're searching

SkinAndScuba · 4th May 2007, 18:29

The Optima is not a new product. It has just had a face lift on the case.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Icarusflies)

Hello All;

I am looking into buying a rebreather and for what I read CCR's are the way to go. My main priority is safety so I was wondering about which CCR offers the most safety oriented features. I am particularly interested in the dual O2 controller of the evolution/inspiration that looks like a very good idea. Forgive my ignorance in the subject but I see many rebreathers that use dual displays and I think that even if the display goes bad but the O2 controller will still works fine and the rebreather will perform so a dual controller with one display looks like the way to go....No?

Also I am looking at the optima since I am close to a large distributor (diverite express). Should I be concerned about this being a new product that has not been field tested???

28th February 2007, 00:21	#1 (permalink)
Icarusflies New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 52	dual O2 controller / two displays Hello All; I am looking into buying a rebreather and for what I read CCR's are the way to go. My main priority is safety so I was wondering about which CCR offers the most safety oriented features. I am particularly interested in the dual O2 controller of the evolution/inspiration that looks like a very good idea. Forgive my ignorance in the subject but I see many rebreathers that use dual displays and I think that even if the display goes bad but the O2 controller will still works fine and the rebreather will perform so a dual controller with one display looks like the way to go....No? Also I am looking at the optima since I am close to a large distributor (diverite express). Should I be concerned about this being a new product that has not been field tested???
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28th February 2007, 02:24	#2 (permalink)
PaulTG2 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 324	Re: dual O2 controller / two displays Hello, Every has their own beliefs in this area. I don't think that any of the manufactured systems are seriously flawed -- it is just a matter of what your personal approach is and what trade-offs the unit has (all units have trade-offs) My recommendation is that you'll choose best after you spend some time working to understand the real issues that each configuration presents. From there decide, based on your beliefs and diving style, which Rebreather takes care of your most important concerns and issues. I learned a lot from reading postings on Rebreather World about the problems people have with the various electronics on different rebreather models. From flooding cables and handsets, battery voltage issues, cracks, lockups, communications problems, temperature issues, etc. Often what seems like the best idea doesn't work so well in reality. MY research and personal beliefs led me to look for the simplest, most rugged and reliable controller with a completely separate PO2 backup monitoring system with HUD. This included forgoing the on-board deco to simplify the Rebreather electronics (and provide more flexibility via off-board deco computer). Even in seeking this there were trade-offs as I also considered the overall flexibility of various models to meet MY needs and desires. I didn't end up with a perfect solution -- just one I thought was the best set of trade-offs for ME. In the end the most important safety issues for rebreather diving isn't a part of your rebreather. Your continued personal dedication to ongoing training, practice, and ultimate proficiency will be far more important than what model Rebreather you choose. --Paul
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28th February 2007, 02:39	#3 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,890	Re: dual O2 controller / two displays Come dive with us on the Florida S.C.R.U.B. outings, and you will get to see a variety of CCRs in action. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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28th February 2007, 03:40	#4 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,284	Re: dual O2 controller / two displays As mentioned, the electronics, like most everything else on a Rebreather, are personal preference. I for one don't particulary care if a CCR has one setpoint controller (as most units do), two (as the APD rigs have) or three (as the Cis-Lunar have) or none at all (as manually controlled CCRs have) as long as there is an independent display that lets you monitor the pO2. The only rebreathers I can think of that don't have that feature standard and from the factory were the CCR2000 and the AP units. on the former it was optional, on the latter you need to go to the aftermarket. IMHO diving any CCR without a redundant (i.e. separate display, separate power source (if any), seprate wiring, all of it independent from the "main" electronics) just isn't a good idea. The Vision electronics have a nicely made handset and display, and I like the fiberoptics use for the HUD as well as the temp stick. I would however prefer the Hammerhead electronics from Juergensen Marine, as a replacement for the Classic electronics or with an Optima. The electronics have proven themselves in many different CCRs over the years, and the layout with primary, secondary and DIVA HUD appeals much more to me than a dual setpoint controller without a separate, independent pO2 monitor. __________________ Cheers Stefan Be Water, My Friend - Bruce Lee Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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28th February 2007, 09:53	#5 (permalink)
Icarusflies New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 52	Re: dual O2 controller / two displays Thank you for your replays; For what I read in the forum I see that most of the eCCR are chosen to be operated manually with the electronics as a back up which I think give a big margin in security. This style of diving should minimize the hypoxic / hyperoxyc problem caused by malfunction as long as your check your displays often (good point in favor of dual displays) . I see that many divers manifest a concern about hypercapnia since there is no was to monitor it; Does the extended air cartridge give a advantage in security?
(Offline)

28th February 2007, 12:39	#6 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,826	Re: dual O2 controller / two displays Icarus, you can use the search function to turn up loads of previous discussions on this very subject. Extendair cartridges are sometimes abbreviated to EAC, when you're searching __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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4th May 2007, 18:29	#7 (permalink)
SkinAndScuba New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Optima Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Africa Three Rivers Posts: 38	Re: dual O2 controller / two displays The Optima is not a new product. It has just had a face lift on the case. Quote: (Originally Posted by Icarusflies) Hello All; I am looking into buying a rebreather and for what I read CCR's are the way to go. My main priority is safety so I was wondering about which CCR offers the most safety oriented features. I am particularly interested in the dual O2 controller of the evolution/inspiration that looks like a very good idea. Forgive my ignorance in the subject but I see many rebreathers that use dual displays and I think that even if the display goes bad but the O2 controller will still works fine and the rebreather will perform so a dual controller with one display looks like the way to go....No? Also I am looking at the optima since I am close to a large distributor (diverite express). Should I be concerned about this being a new product that has not been field tested??? __________________ Kenneth Wessels #19799 Skin & Scuba P.O. Box 264493 Three Rivers 1935 South Africa
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