Salvodiving v Halcyon

Dell Motes · 16th March 2006, 19:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

Last time I checked Sartek didn't sue anyone who didn't make lights though.

Carliegh Rae Corp. (Carmichael, Halcyon, et.al - its a convoluted mess of intertwined ownership and officers there), however, did sue someone (Oxycheq) over a weight patent when Oxycheq didn't actually make weighting systems, and then (if Oxycheq's reports are correct) demanded during settlement negotiations all current stock of their wings and a permanent injunction against future production of same....

Gee, what do you think that one was about?

That is out of my range, I don't know much (0) about those particulars, or who was actually served. I have no reason to doubt what you say, I just don't know enough about the details.
Lawsuits are poisonous to all involved, I would much rather settle things with boxing gloves, and whoever WINS buys the beer

Things would be so much easier and quickly settled, without making attorneys richer.

cool_hardware52 · 16th March 2006, 19:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dell Motes)

Actually, the patent system is an "honor" system.........

The examiners have no clue what may already be on the market, they research previous claims awarded etc. and it is up to the filer to state the
'unique" aspects of their claims. The PTO then either agrees or dismisses any claims depending on prior art, claims previously awarded and/or things deemed "obvious to those skilled in the art", such as it would be rather hard to claim "a round cylinder as a pressure vessel" being unique to an underwater light design. That is obvious to "those skilled in the art", and virtually anyone else for that matter.

Honor based systems require honorable people.

The PTO basically searches the available public records, relying primarily on current patents, pending applications etc. It's much like a title search, public records. The PTO is not digging up 20 year old copies of Skin Diver and scanning them cover to cover on the chance there maybe prior art that applies.

This "other than PTO records" type prior art is typically presented during a suit to "prove the claims" This requires the "infringer" to defend, at great cost in both money and time.

Tobin

Janos · 17th March 2006, 09:52

Always sad when friends fall out. IIRC Barry and JJ dived the Brittanic together.

I have very few business dealings with friends or family, but when I do I get it in writing. I'm not confident enough in my own recollection.

Janos

Mark Chase · 17th March 2006, 10:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos)

Always sad when friends fall out. IIRC Barry and JJ dived the Brittanic together.

I have very few business dealings with friends or family, but when I do I get it in writing. I'm not confident enough in my own recollection.

Janos

I watched the Brittanic film on SKY last night. I found it quite sad seeing Barry and AG (both now no longer a part of GUE) with the sole servivor JJ.

Reading between the lines of Andrew Georgitsis demise it sugests a similar storey.

Then, wasent there some controvacy with the scooters as well?

It would apear that JJ is a hard arse buisnesman as well as being a hard arse diver.

ATB

Mark Chase

decoweenie · 17th March 2006, 10:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

...Barry and AG (both now no longer a part of GUE) with the sole servivor JJ.

AFAIK, Barry was not involved with GUE - not that it matters much.

cameron · 14th April 2006, 06:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dell Motes)

Lawsuits are poisonous to all involved, I would much rather settle things with boxing gloves, and whoever WINS buys the beer

Things would be so much easier and quickly settled, without making attorneys richer.

AMEN!!

jknights · 16th May 2008, 23:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by cool_hardware52)

My laymans understanding of US Patent Law:

The PTO does little or no reseach regarding Prior Art. As a result many patents are issued that will ultimately be found to be invalid.

The patent holder however is now armed with a club to swing at competitors, many of which many not be able to afford to litigate the validity of the patent.

The patent holder is efffectively protected from counter suits because they hold a patent.

Sound familiar?

Tobin

Sounds pretty typical of the US legal system,.
A system that is designed to keep lawyers in business and to help the large organisations bully the smaller innovative ones.
Their attidute is I'll sue you and bankcrupt you before there is a final ruling.

The US and UK legal systems are largely outdated, unethical and certainly immoral. They desparately need to be reformed.

Rant over

jknights · 16th May 2008, 23:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by cameron)

AMEN!!

Amen.

Guess you are not a lawyer but a pragmatist.

caverkevin · 17th May 2008, 02:02

Holy thread CPR!!!

***sadave*** · 17th May 2008, 02:16

Just bear in mind guys (I'm not making any comment on the thread whatsoever, as its a subject I know nothing about!), that this thread is from April 2006, and has just been brought back to life today.

16th March 2006, 19:30	#51 (permalink)
Dell Motes New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lake City, Florida Posts: 21	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) Last time I checked Sartek didn't sue anyone who didn't make lights though. Carliegh Rae Corp. (Carmichael, Halcyon, et.al - its a convoluted mess of intertwined ownership and officers there), however, did sue someone (Oxycheq) over a weight patent when Oxycheq didn't actually make weighting systems, and then (if Oxycheq's reports are correct) demanded during settlement negotiations all current stock of their wings and a permanent injunction against future production of same.... Gee, what do you think that one was about? That is out of my range, I don't know much (0) about those particulars, or who was actually served. I have no reason to doubt what you say, I just don't know enough about the details. Lawsuits are poisonous to all involved, I would much rather settle things with boxing gloves, and whoever WINS buys the beer Things would be so much easier and quickly settled, without making attorneys richer.
(Offline)

16th March 2006, 19:55	#52 (permalink)
cool_hardware52 RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 358	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by Dell Motes) Actually, the patent system is an "honor" system......... The examiners have no clue what may already be on the market, they research previous claims awarded etc. and it is up to the filer to state the 'unique" aspects of their claims. The PTO then either agrees or dismisses any claims depending on prior art, claims previously awarded and/or things deemed "obvious to those skilled in the art", such as it would be rather hard to claim "a round cylinder as a pressure vessel" being unique to an underwater light design. That is obvious to "those skilled in the art", and virtually anyone else for that matter. Honor based systems require honorable people. The PTO basically searches the available public records, relying primarily on current patents, pending applications etc. It's much like a title search, public records. The PTO is not digging up 20 year old copies of Skin Diver and scanning them cover to cover on the chance there maybe prior art that applies. This "other than PTO records" type prior art is typically presented during a suit to "prove the claims" This requires the "infringer" to defend, at great cost in both money and time. Tobin __________________ www.deepseasupply.com
(Online)

17th March 2006, 09:52	#53 (permalink)
Janos "Two Sheds" Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: East Surrey Posts: 581	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Always sad when friends fall out. IIRC Barry and JJ dived the Brittanic together. I have very few business dealings with friends or family, but when I do I get it in writing. I'm not confident enough in my own recollection. Janos __________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves www.hellfins.com/shed
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17th March 2006, 10:15	#54 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos) Always sad when friends fall out. IIRC Barry and JJ dived the Brittanic together. I have very few business dealings with friends or family, but when I do I get it in writing. I'm not confident enough in my own recollection. Janos I watched the Brittanic film on SKY last night. I found it quite sad seeing Barry and AG (both now no longer a part of GUE) with the sole servivor JJ. Reading between the lines of Andrew Georgitsis demise it sugests a similar storey. Then, wasent there some controvacy with the scooters as well? It would apear that JJ is a hard arse buisnesman as well as being a hard arse diver. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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17th March 2006, 10:22	#55 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) ...Barry and AG (both now no longer a part of GUE) with the sole servivor JJ. AFAIK, Barry was not involved with GUE - not that it matters much. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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14th April 2006, 06:46	#56 (permalink)
cameron Classic Kiss 124 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 245	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by Dell Motes) Lawsuits are poisonous to all involved, I would much rather settle things with boxing gloves, and whoever WINS buys the beer Things would be so much easier and quickly settled, without making attorneys richer. AMEN!!
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16th May 2008, 23:00	#57 (permalink)
jknights New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oliva, Valencia, Spain. Posts: 121	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by cool_hardware52) My laymans understanding of US Patent Law: The PTO does little or no reseach regarding Prior Art. As a result many patents are issued that will ultimately be found to be invalid. The patent holder however is now armed with a club to swing at competitors, many of which many not be able to afford to litigate the validity of the patent. The patent holder is efffectively protected from counter suits because they hold a patent. Sound familiar? Tobin Sounds pretty typical of the US legal system,. A system that is designed to keep lawyers in business and to help the large organisations bully the smaller innovative ones. Their attidute is I'll sue you and bankcrupt you before there is a final ruling. The US and UK legal systems are largely outdated, unethical and certainly immoral. They desparately need to be reformed. Rant over
(Offline)

16th May 2008, 23:02	#58 (permalink)
jknights New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oliva, Valencia, Spain. Posts: 121	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by cameron) AMEN!! Amen. Guess you are not a lawyer but a pragmatist.
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17th May 2008, 02:02	#59 (permalink)
caverkevin CK #159 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Broadway NC Posts: 90	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Holy thread CPR!!!
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17th May 2008, 02:16	#60 (permalink)
*sadave* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Posts: 986	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Just bear in mind guys (I'm not making any comment on the thread whatsoever, as its a subject I know nothing about!), that this thread is from April 2006, and has just been brought back to life today. __________________ Wave!
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