Salvodiving v Halcyon

divingniknaks · 15th March 2006, 20:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.)

Here is the link, http://www.utrdivers.it/for/viewtopic.php?p=27048#27048 I left it completely original, only adding my disaproving smilies at the end. Even being an Italian sight lots of the readers speak English so no doubt they will debate/ translate it between themselves and draw their own conclusion accordingly.
Good look to the family.

Nick.

Nick, could you put a link to www.divingniknaks.com on there in the UK Europe customers so that they know where to address any questions.

We are handling this end of questions just to take the pressure off the Salvo guys, as you can imagine they may be a tad busy.

I will pass your wishes on to Lut and the kids when I phone them shortly.

Cheers
Phill

AD_ward9 · 15th March 2006, 20:55

Thanks for posting this thread. The more that know about this abysmal behaviour from Halycon the better.

Hope divers who are thinking of buying Halycon, take the ethical stand and kick them where it hurts them most. Halycon seem to sell most from the factory, but it would be good to read about divers taking a stand to blacklist any Halycon dealer, buying their kit from someone else.

Best wishes for Salvo, and for Barry's family.

Alex Deas

MHD · 15th March 2006, 21:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

Thanks for posting this thread. The more that know about this abysmal behaviour from Halycon the better.

Alex Deas

Alex, you write as if there is a long history of problems from your perspective with halcyon corporate behaviour. Having been buying halcyon gear among others since 1999, I have always been impressed with their support for their product. They haven't always got it right (the first SS inflators for example, of which I still have one, and never had a problem with, consciously decided to keep it to see how long it would last), but their support for products when problems occur has always been outstanding to the customer. And that is from personal experience, far more so than I can say for several other dive manufactures I have dealt with.

I don't know how they deal with other business, but then I don't care, that's what contract law is all about. But their commitment to getting good product to their customers has been their strong point, and as a customer that’s all I care about.

While this sounds a very sad story, any business where people lose friends over it, is way out of control, but people don’t go to jail for nothing in a plea bargain situation, so I would suggest both sides have very real gripes.

The dive industry at all levels is a awash with people slagging off other shops/ instructors and manufacturers, especially in the technical arena, and I wouldn’t say any company hadn’t indulged in it at some time, but I don’t see halcyon as being any worse than the rest as a corporate citizen.

Would you care to elaborate on halcyon behaviour that you find questionable ethically so people can make a better informed discission regarding their buying behaviour?

Matthew

Nick uk. · 15th March 2006, 21:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by divingniknaks)

Nick, could you put a link to www.divingniknaks.com on there in the UK Europe customers so that they know where to address any questions.

We are handling this end of questions just to take the pressure off the Salvo guys, as you can imagine they may be a tad busy.

I will pass your wishes on to Lut and the kids when I phone them shortly.

Cheers
Phill

Ok, have done that.

AD_ward9 · 15th March 2006, 22:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD)

Would you care to elaborate on halcyon behaviour that you find questionable ethically so people can make a better informed discission regarding their buying behaviour?

Your post is probably in the best of intentions, but if Halcyon behave in the way Barry Miller describes, and someone is drawn too far by your post, then it would invite Halycon to filthly themselves in another legal battle.

Experience with Halcyon is spread sufficiently widely for people to come to their own conclusions. I have expressed mine, based not just on the Barry Miller report. Others on this forum express theirs.

I know, from times when people have wronged me, that I have slept much better at night letting them get away with it, rather than bully them. I have never sued anyone, except for getting interdicts to reveal someone's identity that they were trying to hide. There are even one or two on this forum who were told by their own lawyers that I had a prima facie case against them, and I took no action. Glad about that. If people wrong you in life, just distance yourself from them: they get their come uppance sooner or later.

When they are 70 or 80, looking back on their life, now spent, they must ask themselves why they lived? What goodness did they do in their lives? What benefit they brought by their existence? Then weigh that up against their mistakes. Acting in this manner was a mistake for Halcyon and the staff in Halcyon that were involved, in my view.

My code is always try and behave such that the reflection when one is 80, is a good one. I make mistakes too, so far nothing so terrible as what Halcyon have done here. Hope never to do so. I do hope to keep standing up for what is right. Sorry it irritates some. Life can be hard.

Alex

MHD · 15th March 2006, 22:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD)
Would you care to elaborate on halcyon behaviour that you find questionable ethically so people can make a better informed discission regarding their buying behaviour?

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

I have expressed mine, based not just on the Barry Miller report.Alex

So the short answeer is no, you wont! you haven't expressed anything other than you don't like halycon.

I find it objectionable that you call for a boycott of not only the gear, but retailers who sell it, but wont put up more information than agreeing with a very sad story where the only facts offered by the orignal teller are that they are going to jail for questionable activites against their former employer. There are almost certainly 2 sides to this story, but your ramblings add nothing to the validity of the person claims.

Matt

***EBT*** · 15th March 2006, 23:15

Well, to be very honest I've had a less than stellar experience of Halcyon customer service, but isolated incidents in themselves arent significant. I know of other people who cant stop singing their praises.

I dont consider them to be as innovative as maybe they do, but hey, you pays your money, you makes your choice

AD_ward9 · 15th March 2006, 23:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD)

Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD)
So the short answeer is no, you wont! you haven't expressed anything other than you don't like halycon.

I find it objectionable that you call for a boycott of not only the gear, but retailers who sell it, but wont put up more information than agreeing with a very sad story where the only facts offered by the orignal teller are that they are going to jail for questionable activites against their former employer. There are almost certainly 2 sides to this story, but your ramblings add nothing to the validity of the person claims.
Matt

As I thought, your post was meant to be provocative rather than in good intent.

Well, to answer your first point, http://www.scubaboard.com/archive/in...p/t-46836.html is just another one of the less than creditable issues relating to Halcyon that has made the light of day.

I would never act in the manner Halcyon has with respect to Barry Miller. I would rather someone take my whole business and me be with a cap on the street than treat people that way. I have also honoured my gentleman's agreements, even if when it has done me considerable damage to do so. Sorry you do not seem to like that standard and believe by using an agency to give someone a really hard time you win something. You do not. Kindness wins. Especially when it completely undeserved.

Halcyon had a long time to think over their actions in the Barry Miller affair. Carefully calculated Machevelian schemes incite us all to distance ourselves from the perpetrators.

Alex

Dell Motes · 15th March 2006, 23:49

Bad link, but Halcyon has issued a statement as well.

mikedive · 16th March 2006, 02:15

Hey Dell,

Please, do you have the link to the Halcyon statement????
Thanks,

15th March 2006, 20:10	#21 (permalink)
divingniknaks RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2005 Location: West Midlands , UK Posts: 71	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.) Here is the link, http://www.utrdivers.it/for/viewtopic.php?p=27048#27048 I left it completely original, only adding my disaproving smilies at the end. Even being an Italian sight lots of the readers speak English so no doubt they will debate/ translate it between themselves and draw their own conclusion accordingly. Good look to the family. Nick. Nick, could you put a link to www.divingniknaks.com on there in the UK Europe customers so that they know where to address any questions. We are handling this end of questions just to take the pressure off the Salvo guys, as you can imagine they may be a tad busy. I will pass your wishes on to Lut and the kids when I phone them shortly. Cheers Phill __________________ Phill --------------------- www.divingniknaks.com Salvo, Agir-Brokk and Deep Sea Supply in the UK
(Offline)

15th March 2006, 20:55	#22 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,574	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Thanks for posting this thread. The more that know about this abysmal behaviour from Halycon the better. Hope divers who are thinking of buying Halycon, take the ethical stand and kick them where it hurts them most. Halycon seem to sell most from the factory, but it would be good to read about divers taking a stand to blacklist any Halycon dealer, buying their kit from someone else. Best wishes for Salvo, and for Barry's family. Alex Deas
(Offline)

15th March 2006, 21:44	#23 (permalink)
MHD Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia Posts: 239	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) Thanks for posting this thread. The more that know about this abysmal behaviour from Halycon the better. Alex Deas Alex, you write as if there is a long history of problems from your perspective with halcyon corporate behaviour. Having been buying halcyon gear among others since 1999, I have always been impressed with their support for their product. They haven't always got it right (the first SS inflators for example, of which I still have one, and never had a problem with, consciously decided to keep it to see how long it would last), but their support for products when problems occur has always been outstanding to the customer. And that is from personal experience, far more so than I can say for several other dive manufactures I have dealt with. I don't know how they deal with other business, but then I don't care, that's what contract law is all about. But their commitment to getting good product to their customers has been their strong point, and as a customer that’s all I care about. While this sounds a very sad story, any business where people lose friends over it, is way out of control, but people don’t go to jail for nothing in a plea bargain situation, so I would suggest both sides have very real gripes. The dive industry at all levels is a awash with people slagging off other shops/ instructors and manufacturers, especially in the technical arena, and I wouldn’t say any company hadn’t indulged in it at some time, but I don’t see halcyon as being any worse than the rest as a corporate citizen. Would you care to elaborate on halcyon behaviour that you find questionable ethically so people can make a better informed discission regarding their buying behaviour? Matthew
(Offline)

15th March 2006, 21:55	#24 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by divingniknaks) Nick, could you put a link to www.divingniknaks.com on there in the UK Europe customers so that they know where to address any questions. We are handling this end of questions just to take the pressure off the Salvo guys, as you can imagine they may be a tad busy. I will pass your wishes on to Lut and the kids when I phone them shortly. Cheers Phill Ok, have done that. __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
(Offline)

15th March 2006, 22:36	#25 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,574	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD) Would you care to elaborate on halcyon behaviour that you find questionable ethically so people can make a better informed discission regarding their buying behaviour? Your post is probably in the best of intentions, but if Halcyon behave in the way Barry Miller describes, and someone is drawn too far by your post, then it would invite Halycon to filthly themselves in another legal battle. Experience with Halcyon is spread sufficiently widely for people to come to their own conclusions. I have expressed mine, based not just on the Barry Miller report. Others on this forum express theirs. I know, from times when people have wronged me, that I have slept much better at night letting them get away with it, rather than bully them. I have never sued anyone, except for getting interdicts to reveal someone's identity that they were trying to hide. There are even one or two on this forum who were told by their own lawyers that I had a prima facie case against them, and I took no action. Glad about that. If people wrong you in life, just distance yourself from them: they get their come uppance sooner or later. When they are 70 or 80, looking back on their life, now spent, they must ask themselves why they lived? What goodness did they do in their lives? What benefit they brought by their existence? Then weigh that up against their mistakes. Acting in this manner was a mistake for Halcyon and the staff in Halcyon that were involved, in my view. My code is always try and behave such that the reflection when one is 80, is a good one. I make mistakes too, so far nothing so terrible as what Halcyon have done here. Hope never to do so. I do hope to keep standing up for what is right. Sorry it irritates some. Life can be hard. Alex Last edited by AD_ward9 : 15th March 2006 at 23:04. Reason: Spelling. Where has that checker gone?
(Offline)

15th March 2006, 22:57	#26 (permalink)
MHD Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia Posts: 239	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD) Would you care to elaborate on halcyon behaviour that you find questionable ethically so people can make a better informed discission regarding their buying behaviour? Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) I have expressed mine, based not just on the Barry Miller report.Alex So the short answeer is no, you wont! you haven't expressed anything other than you don't like halycon. I find it objectionable that you call for a boycott of not only the gear, but retailers who sell it, but wont put up more information than agreeing with a very sad story where the only facts offered by the orignal teller are that they are going to jail for questionable activites against their former employer. There are almost certainly 2 sides to this story, but your ramblings add nothing to the validity of the person claims. Matt
(Offline)

15th March 2006, 23:15	#27 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,854	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Well, to be very honest I've had a less than stellar experience of Halcyon customer service, but isolated incidents in themselves arent significant. I know of other people who cant stop singing their praises. I dont consider them to be as innovative as maybe they do, but hey, you pays your money, you makes your choice __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
(Offline)

15th March 2006, 23:19	#28 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,574	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD) Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD) So the short answeer is no, you wont! you haven't expressed anything other than you don't like halycon. I find it objectionable that you call for a boycott of not only the gear, but retailers who sell it, but wont put up more information than agreeing with a very sad story where the only facts offered by the orignal teller are that they are going to jail for questionable activites against their former employer. There are almost certainly 2 sides to this story, but your ramblings add nothing to the validity of the person claims. Matt As I thought, your post was meant to be provocative rather than in good intent. Well, to answer your first point, http://www.scubaboard.com/archive/in...p/t-46836.html is just another one of the less than creditable issues relating to Halcyon that has made the light of day. I would never act in the manner Halcyon has with respect to Barry Miller. I would rather someone take my whole business and me be with a cap on the street than treat people that way. I have also honoured my gentleman's agreements, even if when it has done me considerable damage to do so. Sorry you do not seem to like that standard and believe by using an agency to give someone a really hard time you win something. You do not. Kindness wins. Especially when it completely undeserved. Halcyon had a long time to think over their actions in the Barry Miller affair. Carefully calculated Machevelian schemes incite us all to distance ourselves from the perpetrators. Alex
(Offline)

15th March 2006, 23:49	#29 (permalink)
Dell Motes New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lake City, Florida Posts: 21	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Bad link, but Halcyon has issued a statement as well. Last edited by Dell Motes : 15th March 2006 at 23:51.
(Offline)

16th March 2006, 02:15	#30 (permalink)
mikedive Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Brazil, Texas and Mexico Posts: 322	Re: Salvodiving v Halcyon Hey Dell, Please, do you have the link to the Halcyon statement???? Thanks, __________________ Michael Silva Netto - Rebreather Clube do Brasil rebreathertraining@gmail.com
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode