oms rebreather

mverick

But, Kevlar and Vulcanizing both took a while to come out. As with almost all leaps. Some of them were done without knowing it could help another system. So, it got shelved.

The Tech, System, Chemical, might be sitting on a shelf. Or, in testing now. Already worked out just waiting to be implemented.

Like you said, It's not for the Rebreather industry but could be used for that. So, it get's shelved as the Tech or industry isn't looking for that application. But, believe me, they log it and tell it's attributes. I know Physicists who worked for the Government. There logbooks are under lock and key. They are all kind of weird too. Mad scientists must be a requirement for you PHD. LOL

Look at Viagra. It was there.

Dave Sutton

The physics for the scrubber are actually pretty straight forward. LOX is damned cold... the system uses a large portion of the LOX as the 02 supply and a small portion as coolant for the scrubber. The energy input into the system is based on the temperature difference between the freezing point of C02 and LOX. It's not a free ride...although the boiled-off LOX (once boiled off it's gaseous 02) is then used as a breathable gas... so nothing is wasted.

Jim Woodberry talked to us in college back in the 70's about the Mako system he developed. I also have the old Skin Diver Magazine reviews on it, when it was dived as a review item. A single dewar bottle the size of an alu-50 was good for several hours, IIRC. The one I have here is the only one I know of in existance today, although there is probably a Mako or two sitting someplace unloved. Mine uses two dewars of about 4 litres each... so figure out the free gas from 8 litres of LOX or cryogenic air and then do the math. The technology for these systems is *really* straightforward. How do you think we get our gaseous 02 in a T-38? We have on board LOX converters. Or the gaseous 02 that you buy for your rebreather? It's all stored as LOX at your local medical supply shop... some of us (Joe) buy large dewars of 02 and bring them home and use booster pumps to compress the boil-off into our storage banks. Joe, tell the guys what 02 costs when it's bought by the frozen gallon? It's so cheap it's almost funny.


The point, however, is that when I talk about a "new generation" of rebreather, I'm not talking about a new hash made out of the same meat and potatos as all the rest of what went before...


Dave

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"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"


Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.

trob09

I am not saying that it can't happen, it's just that it's not very freaking likely to happen in our lifetime. Again, look at the auto industry. Lots and lots of small improvements over time, but no true paradigm shift in concept. No hover-car, flying car, etc. The industry spends billions of dollars for people to sit around and think up new stuff and we are not that far from where we were in the 50's.

Is it possible that some tech development will spring forward and revolutionize the rebreather industry? absolutely. Is it likely? not in my opinion.

SeaBass

LOL! Classic Dave!

Probably have an OMS TESSERACT on the shelf also. Can I at least dive *that* this summer on my trip out to the east coast?

--SB

Mixaddict

I tend to agree with you based simply on ROI. Is it possible? Absolutely. Look at the computer industry. 40 years ago, an electronic calculator cost about $1500 and only had four functions. The rapid growth in that industry was ONLY possible through the enormous ROI that existed. I doubt we will ever see those types of ROIs in the diving industry. Then again, every once in a while, we see micro industries that just explode, but usually based on a broad market appeal that wasn't widely for seen. I would definitely classify the current dive industry as a "micro industry" in the overall scheme of things, but I'm not sure the mass appeal will ever be there. "Too extreme" for way too many people!

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Randy Thornton (MixAddict)
Inspiration, Evolution,Hammerhead & Sentinel
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Dave Sutton

No, but you can come and play with the Cryolang anytime you like. It's missing one diaphragm and a gallon of liquid to be divable . Maybe this will spur me into action to get it done. Been threatening it for years.

One day I ought to lay the entire collection out and take a photo. Or... bring pizza and wine. If you comes bearing culinary gifts, I'll even provide you with a Draeger just like your avitar (Hans Hass) is wearing... then you can post your own photo!


Dave

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__________________
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"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"


Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.

SeaBass

Deal.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, there are many beautiful and mysterious places in the world, but the most beautiful and secretive of all is the sea. It does not matter whether it streams on a shimmering hot summer’s day with beautiful spots of foam over the rocks, or the wind blows over it and raises angry white froth on the waves, or whether it lies there quite still as if it were dead, the sea is always beautiful and secretive."

Lt Lund, Gegenlunge, 138 or Hass-Geraet?

--SB


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PaulTG2

Hello,

How do you handle the extreme cold without icing everything up and supporting hypothermia?

We like to think that today's rebreather technology as having come a long way in the past 20 years. The truth is some of the most sought after rebreathers for serious diving are those made 20 years ago. We've fiddled a little with electronics, but probably haven't substantially enhanced the utility of rebreathers. Perhaps we've knocked the price in half though while creating a few problems and adding a few limitations.

I used to view technology as an end goal. I have sense learned that technology for the sake of technology is a great hobby but a poor nitch market business. I understand thinking outside the box, but what problems are you going to solve on the everlasting scrubber (and, in this option, for all the additional issues of working/finding LOX)?

In a broader view, in response to Dave, what limitation(s) could you overcome in the existing scrubber technology that would result in a paradigm shift for rebreather diving. I just don't think there is anything in the existing scrubber technology that is particularly limiting -- except to a handful of the extreme dives that occur worldwide in a year.

We have existing scrubbers with 8-10 hour duration. There are number.... perhaps a few... ok, perhaps a couple of divers who need a longer duration scrubber for a couple of dives a year.

Perhaps we could save a few dollars per dive using a different technology, but then perhaps too few to mention -- you probably can't eliminate the cost, just shift some of it to some other material.

I then end I just don't think there is enough a solution to large enough problem to make a major paradigm shift with a major enhancement of scrubber technology.

Again, I'm back to monitoring and control as the big technology issues and simplicity and durability for rental markets as the big market issue.


-p

mverick

Nah, the most beautiful and secretlive is without question Women. LOL...

And, sorry Dave. Said in the paperwork there would be no recharging. No consumables. No electricity used. LOL... That, clicked cold fusion into my head. LOL

I understand when they have consumables. Just like when things can't just go "AWAY."

Dave Sutton

Lund, Lund II, or War-Era Tauchretter, you choose.

Have two Tauchretters, actually... one "unused" and one... well, "used". Retrieved it from a U-Boat (U-853), digging in the gravel right under the escape trunk. Not much left, but identifiable as what it was (as were the bones of the crew scattered under the hatch).

No "wreck pirate" comments, please... it was long ago in a different age. The bones are there now. We visit them now and then and contemplate... and shed a tear for them. To not feel that would to not be a human.

Back on topic would be appropriate, probably. Maybe we should have a historical rebreather discussion area? Lots to learn from the old rigs. Staff?


Dave

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__________________
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"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"


Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.