Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers?

Drmike · 16th November 2007, 13:35

Was told today from a reliable source that currently theres some interest in re-debating use of rebreathers eccr as well a scr by the GUE boys at the moment -possibly some debate about this at the upcoming GUE conferance.

If its true cant see that they need to go eccr myself given their sucess with scr facilitated greatly i supsect by their endless source of willing tank stagers

and superb teamwork

Would be interesting debate none the less but i dont think the technology is really and safer or any further on that it was years ago.

same old crappy cells

**trob09** · 16th November 2007, 13:41

I saw a comment somewhere that I believe was attributed to Casey saying they'd reached the limits (or were approaching the limits) of what they could do with SCR.

Seeing as how they are talking about CCR's at the GUE conference, I would expect them to be evaluating if CCR will allow them to push further than SCR. This would be a different evaluation from 'are CCR's safe now'.

But that's all hearsay and speculation

richc · 16th November 2007, 13:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Was told today from a reliable source that currently theres some interest in re-debating use of rebreathers eccr as well a scr by the GUE boys at the moment -possibly some debate about this at the upcoming GUE conferance.

December 1st in Budapest. Agenda includes:

Forum Debate: Efficacy of Rebreather Diving – CCR and SCR
Kevin Gurr, George Irvine, Jarrod Jablonski, Casey McKinlay, Phil Short, Rick Stanton

Drmike · 16th November 2007, 13:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09)

I saw a comment somewhere that I believe was attributed to Casey saying they'd reached the limits (or were approaching the limits) of what they could do with SCR.

Seeing as how they are talking about CCR's at the GUE conference, I would expect them to be evaluating if CCR will allow them to push further than SCR. This would be a different evaluation from 'are CCR's safe now'.

But that's all hearsay and speculation

that would make sense for those very few GUE divers doing these big pushes such as WKPP, and I personally agree that eccr is the best tool for the kind of extreme expedition diving less than half a dozen people in GUE are doing....but other than that handful of GUE divers the rest of them arent doing these kind of dives so dont need one, hell very few of them even 'need' scr I am sure. So I pressume the debate will be can eccr be DIR for dives that warrant them....interesting. I recall talking to JJ about Eccr and his stance was 'i have yet to have a dive where I needed one to complete it' I guess he has started to. Interesting.

Drmike · 16th November 2007, 13:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by richc)

December 1st in Budapest. Agenda includes:

Forum Debate: Efficacy of Rebreather Diving – CCR and SCR
Kevin Gurr, George Irvine, Jarrod Jablonski, Casey McKinlay, Phil Short, Rick Stanton

Very interesting....hmm, Ive never been to Budapest

Why couldnt they have had this debate at the last GUE conferance, that I attended

Very interesting.

**trob09** · 16th November 2007, 13:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

that would make sense for those very few GUE divers doing these big pushes such as WKPP, and I personally agree that eccr is the best tool for the kind of extreme expedition diving less than half a dozen people in GUE are doing....but other than that handful of GUE divers the rest of them arent doing these kind of dives so dont need one, hell very few of them even 'need' scr I am sure. So I pressume the debate will be can eccr be DIR for dives that warrant them....interesting. I recall talking to JJ about Eccr and his stance was 'i have yet to have a dive where I needed one to complete it' I guess he has started to. Interesting.

That was my understanding of the evaluation - this would be for the 2-5 individuals who are doing the long pushes in Wakulla, etc. not for the masses of the DIR faithful.

netmage · 16th November 2007, 13:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09)

I saw a comment somewhere that I believe was attributed to Casey saying they'd reached the limits (or were approaching the limits) of what they could do with SCR.

Seeing as how they are talking about CCR's at the GUE conference, I would expect them to be evaluating if CCR will allow them to push further than SCR. This would be a different evaluation from 'are CCR's safe now'.

But that's all hearsay and speculation

It is refreshing that the panel isn't stacked 'against', and the 'dogma' aspect has been set aside. Perhaps this will result in a real discussion. The weeki wachee team proved it could work.

As I understand current Rebreather-80 practices.... Backgas (2 x 130's) is immediate bailout, drive gas is slung (AL80's). Additional bailout and drive bottles are deployed by setup teams along the mission route...

So, what would the move from SCR -> eCCR mean....?
- Reduction of team setup work? Maybe, not significantly, adaquate bailout supplies are still a concern. Maybe reduction of some additional drive bottles, and the bailout considered a longer term stash over multiple missions if left untouched. (Fairly certain they do this today).

- Better Deco? Probably, the extent would really need to be run.
I always wondered why they didn't use some sort of rebreather tech for the O2 deco in the habitat... For as many hours, they've gotta be burning through a few O2 bottles. Even if it's a DAN setup there would be some value here.

-Tim

**trob09** · 16th November 2007, 14:48

Certainly dogma is a tough thing to overcome.

It seems to me that the real advantage lies in reduction of drive gas requirements and reduction of work needed to stage the same for the lead team(s). Bail out is still needed and deco reduction would be minimal if any.

It may be that they ultimately deem CCR's to be unsuitable for their mission - that's fine. I find it encouraging that the insulting dialogue appears to have been been put aside and that groups with different philosophies might actually learn from each other rather than finger-point and name-call.

T

Mikel-Deko · 16th November 2007, 15:02

If you use TWO eCCR's... you don't need so many stages... no so many team work... no so many logistic... no so many things.
Maybe this is the question that GUE is taking about.

My two cents.

Best

Mikel

PD: it would be fantastic to be there in Budapest.

Bobnob · 16th November 2007, 15:26

Money . = GUE Mass

also some good old boys moving away , to play on ccrs

16th November 2007, 13:35	#1 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,113	Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? Was told today from a reliable source that currently theres some interest in re-debating use of rebreathers eccr as well a scr by the GUE boys at the moment -possibly some debate about this at the upcoming GUE conferance. If its true cant see that they need to go eccr myself given their sucess with scr facilitated greatly i supsect by their endless source of willing tank stagers and superb teamwork Would be interesting debate none the less but i dont think the technology is really and safer or any further on that it was years ago. same old crappy cells __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 16th November 2007 at 13:41.
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16th November 2007, 13:41	#2 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 685	Re: Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? I saw a comment somewhere that I believe was attributed to Casey saying they'd reached the limits (or were approaching the limits) of what they could do with SCR. Seeing as how they are talking about CCR's at the GUE conference, I would expect them to be evaluating if CCR will allow them to push further than SCR. This would be a different evaluation from 'are CCR's safe now'. But that's all hearsay and speculation
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16th November 2007, 13:48	#3 (permalink)
richc New Member Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hove actually Posts: 40	Re: Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Was told today from a reliable source that currently theres some interest in re-debating use of rebreathers eccr as well a scr by the GUE boys at the moment -possibly some debate about this at the upcoming GUE conferance. December 1st in Budapest. Agenda includes: Forum Debate: Efficacy of Rebreather Diving – CCR and SCR Kevin Gurr, George Irvine, Jarrod Jablonski, Casey McKinlay, Phil Short, Rick Stanton
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16th November 2007, 13:54	#4 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,113	Re: Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09) I saw a comment somewhere that I believe was attributed to Casey saying they'd reached the limits (or were approaching the limits) of what they could do with SCR. Seeing as how they are talking about CCR's at the GUE conference, I would expect them to be evaluating if CCR will allow them to push further than SCR. This would be a different evaluation from 'are CCR's safe now'. But that's all hearsay and speculation that would make sense for those very few GUE divers doing these big pushes such as WKPP, and I personally agree that eccr is the best tool for the kind of extreme expedition diving less than half a dozen people in GUE are doing....but other than that handful of GUE divers the rest of them arent doing these kind of dives so dont need one, hell very few of them even 'need' scr I am sure. So I pressume the debate will be can eccr be DIR for dives that warrant them....interesting. I recall talking to JJ about Eccr and his stance was 'i have yet to have a dive where I needed one to complete it' I guess he has started to. Interesting. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
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16th November 2007, 13:56	#5 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,113	Re: Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? Quote: (Originally Posted by richc) December 1st in Budapest. Agenda includes: Forum Debate: Efficacy of Rebreather Diving – CCR and SCR Kevin Gurr, George Irvine, Jarrod Jablonski, Casey McKinlay, Phil Short, Rick Stanton Very interesting....hmm, Ive never been to Budapest Why couldnt they have had this debate at the last GUE conferance, that I attended Very interesting. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
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16th November 2007, 13:58	#6 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 685	Re: Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) that would make sense for those very few GUE divers doing these big pushes such as WKPP, and I personally agree that eccr is the best tool for the kind of extreme expedition diving less than half a dozen people in GUE are doing....but other than that handful of GUE divers the rest of them arent doing these kind of dives so dont need one, hell very few of them even 'need' scr I am sure. So I pressume the debate will be can eccr be DIR for dives that warrant them....interesting. I recall talking to JJ about Eccr and his stance was 'i have yet to have a dive where I needed one to complete it' I guess he has started to. Interesting. That was my understanding of the evaluation - this would be for the 2-5 individuals who are doing the long pushes in Wakulla, etc. not for the masses of the DIR faithful.
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16th November 2007, 13:59	#7 (permalink)
netmage Hello Kitty...... Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coconut Creek, FL Posts: 324	Re: Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09) I saw a comment somewhere that I believe was attributed to Casey saying they'd reached the limits (or were approaching the limits) of what they could do with SCR. Seeing as how they are talking about CCR's at the GUE conference, I would expect them to be evaluating if CCR will allow them to push further than SCR. This would be a different evaluation from 'are CCR's safe now'. But that's all hearsay and speculation It is refreshing that the panel isn't stacked 'against', and the 'dogma' aspect has been set aside. Perhaps this will result in a real discussion. The weeki wachee team proved it could work. As I understand current Rebreather-80 practices.... Backgas (2 x 130's) is immediate bailout, drive gas is slung (AL80's). Additional bailout and drive bottles are deployed by setup teams along the mission route... So, what would the move from SCR -> eCCR mean....? - Reduction of team setup work? Maybe, not significantly, adaquate bailout supplies are still a concern. Maybe reduction of some additional drive bottles, and the bailout considered a longer term stash over multiple missions if left untouched. (Fairly certain they do this today). - Better Deco? Probably, the extent would really need to be run. I always wondered why they didn't use some sort of rebreather tech for the O2 deco in the habitat... For as many hours, they've gotta be burning through a few O2 bottles. Even if it's a DAN setup there would be some value here. -Tim
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16th November 2007, 14:48	#8 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 685	Re: Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? Certainly dogma is a tough thing to overcome. It seems to me that the real advantage lies in reduction of drive gas requirements and reduction of work needed to stage the same for the lead team(s). Bail out is still needed and deco reduction would be minimal if any. It may be that they ultimately deem CCR's to be unsuitable for their mission - that's fine. I find it encouraging that the insulting dialogue appears to have been been put aside and that groups with different philosophies might actually learn from each other rather than finger-point and name-call. T
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16th November 2007, 15:02	#9 (permalink)
Mikel-Deko Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Basque Country -Sp- Posts: 408	Re: Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? If you use TWO eCCR's... you don't need so many stages... no so many team work... no so many logistic... no so many things. Maybe this is the question that GUE is taking about. My two cents. Best Mikel PD: it would be fantastic to be there in Budapest. __________________ Mikel-Deko Basque Country www.olatu.net "DIR is the nanny state for divers who cannot think on their own" Ron Micjan
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16th November 2007, 15:26	#10 (permalink)
Bobnob Sock Puppet banned - gobfish1 back Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: south of north Posts: 32	Re: Gue debating use of eccr rebreathers? Money . = GUE Mass also some good old boys moving away , to play on ccrs Last edited by Bobnob : 16th November 2007 at 15:32.
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