Newbie FFM Questions

JaceCady · 7th December 2006, 14:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

If you but Divematics BOV between the mask and the Apeks you can use the Apeks OC after opening a couple of screws and attaching the bite piece again.

*nod* But you can't use a BOV on a plain OC setup.

I was kinda hoping to basically get OC gear *all of which* is reusable as CCR gear later on; unless a "regular" TX100 (or the newer, more compact ATX100) can be adapted for the mask after purchase, it looks like I'm stuck with at least one extra regulator.

**RichClark** · 7th December 2006, 14:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by JaceCady)

*nod* But you can't use a BOV on a plain OC setup.

I was kinda hoping to basically get OC gear *all of which* is reusable as CCR gear later on; unless a "regular" TX100 (or the newer, more compact ATX100) can be adapted for the mask after purchase, it looks like I'm stuck with at least one extra regulator.

You can never have too many good quality regs - it will become *one of your many* your bail out regs.

JaceCady · 7th December 2006, 15:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark)

You can never have too many good quality regs - it will become *one of your many* your bail out regs.

*blink* Ummm...just how many do you need? I'm planning a BOV setup so I *think* I only need one backup reg on me, plus deco and stage tanks...

I figured I'd have the 80s from my OC rig oxygen cleaned and use them for deco and stage, with 13s on a Megalodon and twin 30s for backup/bailout (in principle I don't like the idea of bailing out onto rebreather diluent tanks, backup should be a completely redundant system). Oh yeah, and are the Apeks ATX50 or ATX40 "good enough" for technical deep? For obvious reasons I want to start with a relatively inexpensive, low-end regulator, but I want to get one that I can use as a deco or stage tank when I graduate to technical.

**RichClark** · 7th December 2006, 15:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by JaceCady)

*blink* Ummm...just how many do you need? I'm planning a BOV setup so I *think* I only need one backup reg on me, plus deco and stage tanks...

I figured I'd have the 80s from my OC rig oxygen cleaned and use them for deco and stage, with 13s on a Megalodon and twin 30s for backup/bailout (in principle I don't like the idea of bailing out onto rebreather diluent tanks, backup should be a completely redundant system). Oh yeah, and are the Apeks ATX50 or ATX40 "good enough" for technical deep? For obvious reasons I want to start with a relatively inexpensive, low-end regulator, but I want to get one that I can use as a deco or stage tank when I graduate to technical.

Sorry mate, I think i may have confused you - I consider all my off-board regs to be bail out as i have no intention of using them unless I have a problem; equally I don't consider my off-board bottles to be travel, stage or deco any more, they'll all bailout bottles to be used at a particular phase in bailing out to open circuit.

My BOV is only there for sanity breaths whilst bailing out to OC.

All the Apeks regs are great, I have a mixture TX40, TX50, ATX50's all with either a DS4 or DST 1st stage. I seem to have ended up with about 5 sets in all! I prefer the DST's for bailout bottles as I find that the swivel turret allows for better and more comfortable hose routing, although this does add another point of failure.

Cheers

Rich

JaceCady · 7th December 2006, 19:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark)

Sorry mate, I think i may have confused you - I consider all my off-board regs to be bail out as i have no intention of using them unless I have a problem; equally I don't consider my off-board bottles to be travel, stage or deco any more, they'll all bailout bottles to be used at a particular phase in bailing out to open circuit.

I see, I see. That makes sense.

Quote:

My BOV is only there for sanity breaths whilst bailing out to OC.

I take it your BOV goes to diluent tanks then? It would seem to make sense to use those if you're only using it for sanity breaths, then switch regs to an OC tank.

**RichClark** · 7th December 2006, 22:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by JaceCady)

I take it your BOV goes to diluent tanks then? It would seem to make sense to use those if you're only using it for sanity breaths, then switch regs to an OC tank.

Yep, I dive a Classic KISS, my BOV is plumbed into the manifold. I did briefly consider having a QC, but decided that there really is no point. I'm better off going for a couple of sanity breaths then going OC if I need to.

Cheers

JaceCady · 7th December 2006, 22:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark)

Yep, I dive a Classic KISS, my BOV is plumbed into the manifold. I did briefly consider having a QC, but decided that there really is no point. I'm better off going for a couple of sanity breaths then going OC if I need to.

Cheers

*nods* And that way your backup OC is *completely* independent of the rebreather, which I'd say is good as a matter of principle.

RonMicjan · 10th December 2006, 23:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by iani)

I too use the Nova, the bailout strategy you mention doesn't help if you have a loop flood, this happened to me and I had a mouthful of cocktail. I bailed onto the side mounted tx 100, breathing through the nose is ok in theory but I wouldn't want to have to do it for long, luckily I only had a few mins of stops and was on the surface quickly. I think the best strategy is to bail onto a side mounted 2nd then replace the CC mouthpiece with another 2nd stage so you can minimise the dead space and also breathe comfortably.

Ian

No problem with a loop flood, turn the dsv off, pop it off, rinse your mouth out and pop the apex reg in. Having the reg plugged into the side is a pain and having over 250 hours on my meg with no bailouts necessary, for any reason, leads me to the conclusion that having the tx100 strapped to my stage works just fine. Even if the meg floods, a very slim probability due to the design, the diver would know it long before it could get to the DSV.

RonMicjan · 10th December 2006, 23:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by JaceCady)

*nods* And that way your backup OC is *completely* independent of the rebreather, which I'd say is good as a matter of principle.

If you intend to use a FFM, stragetys have to change, you do not want to be forced to abandon your mask and loop at the same time, this would quadruple your stress level in an already bad situation. The perfect setup would be a FFM, with a BOV, and the ability to swap gasses feeding the BOV, with a QD on the reg itself. it would be required to have the hoses, coming from your stage cylinders to be marked for gas content, so you can verify the mix prior to plugging in.

JaceCady · 11th December 2006, 03:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

If you intend to use a FFM, stragetys have to change, you do not want to be forced to abandon your mask and loop at the same time, this would quadruple your stress level in an already bad situation. The perfect setup would be a FFM, with a BOV, and the ability to swap gasses feeding the BOV, with a QD on the reg itself. it would be required to have the hoses, coming from your stage cylinders to be marked for gas content, so you can verify the mix prior to plugging in.

I think I see what you mean -- no spare regulator, just a chained set of selector valves so that the regulator on the mask can be fed from CCR diluent or seperate OC bailout rig.

7th December 2006, 14:14	#11 (permalink)
JaceCady New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 31	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) If you but Divematics BOV between the mask and the Apeks you can use the Apeks OC after opening a couple of screws and attaching the bite piece again. nod But you can't use a BOV on a plain OC setup. I was kinda hoping to basically get OC gear all of which is reusable as CCR gear later on; unless a "regular" TX100 (or the newer, more compact ATX100) can be adapted for the mask after purchase, it looks like I'm stuck with at least one extra regulator.
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7th December 2006, 14:47	#12 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 778	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by JaceCady) nod But you can't use a BOV on a plain OC setup. I was kinda hoping to basically get OC gear all of which is reusable as CCR gear later on; unless a "regular" TX100 (or the newer, more compact ATX100) can be adapted for the mask after purchase, it looks like I'm stuck with at least one extra regulator. You can never have too many good quality regs - it will become one of your many your bail out regs. __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
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7th December 2006, 15:13	#13 (permalink)
JaceCady New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 31	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark) You can never have too many good quality regs - it will become one of your many your bail out regs. blink Ummm...just how many do you need? I'm planning a BOV setup so I think I only need one backup reg on me, plus deco and stage tanks... I figured I'd have the 80s from my OC rig oxygen cleaned and use them for deco and stage, with 13s on a Megalodon and twin 30s for backup/bailout (in principle I don't like the idea of bailing out onto rebreather diluent tanks, backup should be a completely redundant system). Oh yeah, and are the Apeks ATX50 or ATX40 "good enough" for technical deep? For obvious reasons I want to start with a relatively inexpensive, low-end regulator, but I want to get one that I can use as a deco or stage tank when I graduate to technical. Last edited by JaceCady : 7th December 2006 at 15:15.
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7th December 2006, 15:37	#14 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 778	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by JaceCady) blink Ummm...just how many do you need? I'm planning a BOV setup so I think I only need one backup reg on me, plus deco and stage tanks... I figured I'd have the 80s from my OC rig oxygen cleaned and use them for deco and stage, with 13s on a Megalodon and twin 30s for backup/bailout (in principle I don't like the idea of bailing out onto rebreather diluent tanks, backup should be a completely redundant system). Oh yeah, and are the Apeks ATX50 or ATX40 "good enough" for technical deep? For obvious reasons I want to start with a relatively inexpensive, low-end regulator, but I want to get one that I can use as a deco or stage tank when I graduate to technical. Sorry mate, I think i may have confused you - I consider all my off-board regs to be bail out as i have no intention of using them unless I have a problem; equally I don't consider my off-board bottles to be travel, stage or deco any more, they'll all bailout bottles to be used at a particular phase in bailing out to open circuit. My BOV is only there for sanity breaths whilst bailing out to OC. All the Apeks regs are great, I have a mixture TX40, TX50, ATX50's all with either a DS4 or DST 1st stage. I seem to have ended up with about 5 sets in all! I prefer the DST's for bailout bottles as I find that the swivel turret allows for better and more comfortable hose routing, although this does add another point of failure. Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
(Online)

7th December 2006, 19:31	#15 (permalink)
JaceCady New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 31	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark) Sorry mate, I think i may have confused you - I consider all my off-board regs to be bail out as i have no intention of using them unless I have a problem; equally I don't consider my off-board bottles to be travel, stage or deco any more, they'll all bailout bottles to be used at a particular phase in bailing out to open circuit. I see, I see. That makes sense. Quote: My BOV is only there for sanity breaths whilst bailing out to OC. I take it your BOV goes to diluent tanks then? It would seem to make sense to use those if you're only using it for sanity breaths, then switch regs to an OC tank.
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7th December 2006, 22:36	#16 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 778	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by JaceCady) I take it your BOV goes to diluent tanks then? It would seem to make sense to use those if you're only using it for sanity breaths, then switch regs to an OC tank. Yep, I dive a Classic KISS, my BOV is plumbed into the manifold. I did briefly consider having a QC, but decided that there really is no point. I'm better off going for a couple of sanity breaths then going OC if I need to. Cheers __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
(Online)

7th December 2006, 22:40	#17 (permalink)
JaceCady New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 31	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark) Yep, I dive a Classic KISS, my BOV is plumbed into the manifold. I did briefly consider having a QC, but decided that there really is no point. I'm better off going for a couple of sanity breaths then going OC if I need to. Cheers nods And that way your backup OC is completely independent of the rebreather, which I'd say is good as a matter of principle.
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10th December 2006, 23:25	#18 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,100	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by iani) I too use the Nova, the bailout strategy you mention doesn't help if you have a loop flood, this happened to me and I had a mouthful of cocktail. I bailed onto the side mounted tx 100, breathing through the nose is ok in theory but I wouldn't want to have to do it for long, luckily I only had a few mins of stops and was on the surface quickly. I think the best strategy is to bail onto a side mounted 2nd then replace the CC mouthpiece with another 2nd stage so you can minimise the dead space and also breathe comfortably. Ian No problem with a loop flood, turn the dsv off, pop it off, rinse your mouth out and pop the apex reg in. Having the reg plugged into the side is a pain and having over 250 hours on my meg with no bailouts necessary, for any reason, leads me to the conclusion that having the tx100 strapped to my stage works just fine. Even if the meg floods, a very slim probability due to the design, the diver would know it long before it could get to the DSV. __________________ Marine rescue, towing and salvage. Interfering with natural selection since 1983. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc. www.seatowpdx.com The Summer Job
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10th December 2006, 23:31	#19 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,100	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by JaceCady) nods And that way your backup OC is completely independent of the rebreather, which I'd say is good as a matter of principle. If you intend to use a FFM, stragetys have to change, you do not want to be forced to abandon your mask and loop at the same time, this would quadruple your stress level in an already bad situation. The perfect setup would be a FFM, with a BOV, and the ability to swap gasses feeding the BOV, with a QD on the reg itself. it would be required to have the hoses, coming from your stage cylinders to be marked for gas content, so you can verify the mix prior to plugging in. __________________ Marine rescue, towing and salvage. Interfering with natural selection since 1983. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc. www.seatowpdx.com The Summer Job
(Offline)

11th December 2006, 03:05	#20 (permalink)
JaceCady New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 31	Re: Newbie FFM Questions Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) If you intend to use a FFM, stragetys have to change, you do not want to be forced to abandon your mask and loop at the same time, this would quadruple your stress level in an already bad situation. The perfect setup would be a FFM, with a BOV, and the ability to swap gasses feeding the BOV, with a QD on the reg itself. it would be required to have the hoses, coming from your stage cylinders to be marked for gas content, so you can verify the mix prior to plugging in. I think I see what you mean -- no spare regulator, just a chained set of selector valves so that the regulator on the mask can be fed from CCR diluent or seperate OC bailout rig.
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