my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet!

**RichClark** · 10th May 2006, 14:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I think this type of mask/set up needs the bailout reg (normally and in the first instance) to be plumbed into a bail gas that is the same as the dil gas. In this way the 2nd stage acts just like the units ADV. [By breathing through the nose you can add dil also]. In this way if the 2nd stage free flows its no different to an ADV freeflowing.

Haven't got mine yet but this is how I figured Id work it.

So is your plan to have a QC in line, so that you can switch off board or are you planing on using a gas block.

I'm interested in seeing how the Dreager FFM works out. It's certainly not as slick as the KM-48 with NATO pod or equivalent.

Cheers

Rich

***Decodiver*** · 10th May 2006, 17:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark)

So is your plan to have a QC in line, so that you can switch off board or are you planing on using a gas block.

I'm interested in seeing how the Dreager FFM works out. It's certainly not as slick as the KM-48 with NATO pod or equivalent.

Cheers

Rich

Hi Rich,

Hope you are well buddy.

I have a Draeger on order for use with the Boris and Meg, I am still undecided about whether I will use a Swagelock system or go for the M&J Engineering gas block.

The Jury is out. If anyone has any experience of the M&J Gas Block as here:

http://216.234.178.228/shop/index.ph...8071e27f3b5605

then would be pleased to hear any comments, good or bad.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

RonMicjan · 10th May 2006, 20:44

I think what I am going to do is get two of the O2 injection hoses from Leon and one coupler, put the coupler on my P ported reg and insert that into the mask. then on my bailout cylinders just add the O2 injection hoses so I can replumb if i need to change bailout gases. I dont trust using a gas block, in a stressful situation you may go to bailout on the wrong gas. Where if you plug the reg in before you get into the water you wont be stressed and will be sure to get it in the correct cylinder (or as the theory goes) The bailout cylinders would also have the standard second stage as well as LPI hoses too.

***diverklondike*** · 10th May 2006, 20:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

I think what I am going to do is get two of the O2 injection hoses from Leon and one coupler, put the coupler on my P ported reg and insert that into the mask. then on my bailout cylinders just add the O2 injection hoses so I can replumb if i need to change bailout gases. I dont trust using a gas block, in a stressful situation you may go to bailout on the wrong gas. Where if you plug the reg in before you get into the water you wont be stressed and will be sure to get it in the correct cylinder (or as the theory goes) The bailout cylinders would also have the standard second stage as well as LPI hoses too.

Ron,

I am pretty sure that Leon is using a Swagelok QC-4 for the O2 injection hoses. I am not sure that will provide you with the needed flow to support a second stage at depth in a bailout situation. For that reason I am planning on using a QC-6 with my Golem BOV.

Dive Safe...

Mark

RonMicjan · 10th May 2006, 23:57

you are correct, I was talking with leon today about that and he mentioned the flow problem. I just ordered some parker connectors that have a sealing face part number FS-251-4FP and its mate FS-252-4FP. These terminate in 1/4npt and I have also ordered the adaptors to convert to barbed fittings which I will clamp on reg hoses. spendy, but looks like the right way to go. I should have by middle of next week.

Drmike · 11th May 2006, 01:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

The Jury is out. If anyone has any experience of the M&J Gas Block as here:

http://216.234.178.228/shop/index.ph...8071e27f3b5605

then would be pleased to hear any comments, good or bad.

.

My view is a mistake with a gas switch block (switching by accident to a rich mix) can get you killed. Personally I dont see any 'real' benefit of them that outweighs this risk.

The only way I would be comfortable using one would be if I had a routine where I only plugged in the next gas right before a switch then imediately after switching unplugged the old gas. (in other words never have 2 gasses plugged in at once other than at switch time) That way it should be impossible to make a mistake.

RonMicjan · 11th May 2006, 01:12

the gas block on the CIS was pretty nifty, to change gas you had to release a catch, then rotate the knob, then to go to pure O2 you had to pull out the knob, and rotate past a detent, that actually might be backwards, but the gist is it took a definite effort to switch gasses. No need to correct me, I have the cis manual here somewhere, just too lazy to go look up the exact procedure. : )

I expect to have a slider valve and swivel on the OC reg and then the QC for each cylinder, this will certainly have the effect of deliberate gas switching and no mix ups.

***Decodiver*** · 11th May 2006, 07:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

My view is a mistake with a gas switch block (switching by accident to a rich mix) can get you killed. Personally I dont see any 'real' benefit of them that outweighs this risk.

The only way I would be comfortable using one would be if I had a routine where I only plugged in the next gas right before a switch then imediately after switching unplugged the old gas. (in other words never have 2 gasses plugged in at once other than at switch time) That way it should be impossible to make a mistake.

Good point, well presented.

Thanks Mike,

Dave.

**RichClark** · 11th May 2006, 08:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Hi Rich,

Hope you are well buddy.

I have a Draeger on order for use with the Boris and Meg, I am still undecided about whether I will use a Swagelock system or go for the M&J Engineering gas block.

The Jury is out. If anyone has any experience of the M&J Gas Block as here:

http://216.234.178.228/shop/index.ph...8071e27f3b5605

then would be pleased to hear any comments, good or bad.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Hi Dave,

I'm good thanks, although not getting as many hours on my KISS as I'd like!

I like the look of the M&J stuff, but I'm not sure I trust my self not to screw up in an emergency. I much prefer the idea of the QC's.

Now the CIS block, that's something else!

Cheers

Rich

RonMicjan · 13th May 2006, 03:58

got my parker parts today, looks sweet, just waiting on the barbed adaptors so I can chop up a couple reg hoses and set up the bailout cylinders. Will post pics when I get it closer. the flat ports on the connectors have a seriously positive lock in and are supposed to be non spill, which also means that not much water will get in the connection if attached underwater. If I do have to futz with them underwater, having a cm or so of seawater in my second stage is the least of my worries. : )

10th May 2006, 14:47	#31 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 772	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I think this type of mask/set up needs the bailout reg (normally and in the first instance) to be plumbed into a bail gas that is the same as the dil gas. In this way the 2nd stage acts just like the units ADV. [By breathing through the nose you can add dil also]. In this way if the 2nd stage free flows its no different to an ADV freeflowing. Haven't got mine yet but this is how I figured Id work it. So is your plan to have a QC in line, so that you can switch off board or are you planing on using a gas block. I'm interested in seeing how the Dreager FFM works out. It's certainly not as slick as the KM-48 with NATO pod or equivalent. Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
(Offline)

10th May 2006, 17:05	#32 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark) So is your plan to have a QC in line, so that you can switch off board or are you planing on using a gas block. I'm interested in seeing how the Dreager FFM works out. It's certainly not as slick as the KM-48 with NATO pod or equivalent. Cheers Rich Hi Rich, Hope you are well buddy. I have a Draeger on order for use with the Boris and Meg, I am still undecided about whether I will use a Swagelock system or go for the M&J Engineering gas block. The Jury is out. If anyone has any experience of the M&J Gas Block as here: http://216.234.178.228/shop/index.ph...8071e27f3b5605 then would be pleased to hear any comments, good or bad. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
(Offline)

10th May 2006, 20:44	#33 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,083	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! I think what I am going to do is get two of the O2 injection hoses from Leon and one coupler, put the coupler on my P ported reg and insert that into the mask. then on my bailout cylinders just add the O2 injection hoses so I can replumb if i need to change bailout gases. I dont trust using a gas block, in a stressful situation you may go to bailout on the wrong gas. Where if you plug the reg in before you get into the water you wont be stressed and will be sure to get it in the correct cylinder (or as the theory goes) The bailout cylinders would also have the standard second stage as well as LPI hoses too. __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
(Offline)

10th May 2006, 20:57	#34 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,561	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) I think what I am going to do is get two of the O2 injection hoses from Leon and one coupler, put the coupler on my P ported reg and insert that into the mask. then on my bailout cylinders just add the O2 injection hoses so I can replumb if i need to change bailout gases. I dont trust using a gas block, in a stressful situation you may go to bailout on the wrong gas. Where if you plug the reg in before you get into the water you wont be stressed and will be sure to get it in the correct cylinder (or as the theory goes) The bailout cylinders would also have the standard second stage as well as LPI hoses too. Ron, I am pretty sure that Leon is using a Swagelok QC-4 for the O2 injection hoses. I am not sure that will provide you with the needed flow to support a second stage at depth in a bailout situation. For that reason I am planning on using a QC-6 with my Golem BOV. Dive Safe... Mark
(Offline)

10th May 2006, 23:57	#35 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,083	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! you are correct, I was talking with leon today about that and he mentioned the flow problem. I just ordered some parker connectors that have a sealing face part number FS-251-4FP and its mate FS-252-4FP. These terminate in 1/4npt and I have also ordered the adaptors to convert to barbed fittings which I will clamp on reg hoses. spendy, but looks like the right way to go. I should have by middle of next week. __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
(Offline)

11th May 2006, 01:07	#36 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,161	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) The Jury is out. If anyone has any experience of the M&J Gas Block as here: http://216.234.178.228/shop/index.ph...8071e27f3b5605 then would be pleased to hear any comments, good or bad. . My view is a mistake with a gas switch block (switching by accident to a rich mix) can get you killed. Personally I dont see any 'real' benefit of them that outweighs this risk. The only way I would be comfortable using one would be if I had a routine where I only plugged in the next gas right before a switch then imediately after switching unplugged the old gas. (in other words never have 2 gasses plugged in at once other than at switch time) That way it should be impossible to make a mistake. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
(Offline)

11th May 2006, 01:12	#37 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,083	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! the gas block on the CIS was pretty nifty, to change gas you had to release a catch, then rotate the knob, then to go to pure O2 you had to pull out the knob, and rotate past a detent, that actually might be backwards, but the gist is it took a definite effort to switch gasses. No need to correct me, I have the cis manual here somewhere, just too lazy to go look up the exact procedure. : ) I expect to have a slider valve and swivel on the OC reg and then the QC for each cylinder, this will certainly have the effect of deliberate gas switching and no mix ups. __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
(Offline)

11th May 2006, 07:00	#38 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) My view is a mistake with a gas switch block (switching by accident to a rich mix) can get you killed. Personally I dont see any 'real' benefit of them that outweighs this risk. The only way I would be comfortable using one would be if I had a routine where I only plugged in the next gas right before a switch then imediately after switching unplugged the old gas. (in other words never have 2 gasses plugged in at once other than at switch time) That way it should be impossible to make a mistake. Good point, well presented. Thanks Mike, Dave. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
(Offline)

11th May 2006, 08:25	#39 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 772	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Hi Rich, Hope you are well buddy. I have a Draeger on order for use with the Boris and Meg, I am still undecided about whether I will use a Swagelock system or go for the M&J Engineering gas block. The Jury is out. If anyone has any experience of the M&J Gas Block as here: http://216.234.178.228/shop/index.ph...8071e27f3b5605 then would be pleased to hear any comments, good or bad. Cheers, Dave Cooper. Hi Dave, I'm good thanks, although not getting as many hours on my KISS as I'd like! I like the look of the M&J stuff, but I'm not sure I trust my self not to screw up in an emergency. I much prefer the idea of the QC's. Now the CIS block, that's something else! Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
(Offline)

13th May 2006, 03:58	#40 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,083	Re: my Meg and Draeger FFM, sweet! got my parker parts today, looks sweet, just waiting on the barbed adaptors so I can chop up a couple reg hoses and set up the bailout cylinders. Will post pics when I get it closer. the flat ports on the connectors have a seriously positive lock in and are supposed to be non spill, which also means that not much water will get in the connection if attached underwater. If I do have to futz with them underwater, having a cm or so of seawater in my second stage is the least of my worries. : ) __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode