Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios

mempilot · 5th May 2008, 20:56

Like Lance, I've taken delivery of the Drager Panorama Nova FFM. Very nice fit, comfort, and quality. I also received my new Golem Vario BOV from Jakub and completed a shakedown dive with it yesterday. Now, it is time to plumb the mask/BOV combination for bailout scenarios.

To keep it simple, I always dive my DIL and deep bailout gasses with the same mix. So, I'm planning on plumbing the OC 2nd p-ported to the mask and the BOV to a Y-block, which will terminate in a QC. This single QC will allow me to plug into any cylinder via an accomodating whip, thus making bailout, loop volume addition via the nasal reg, nasal bailout, and oral bailout all centralized to a single tank which can be switched on the fly. (No switching blocks)

The next part of the plan is this: I want to leave my OC bailout and deco bottles setup for passing to buddies by leaving the 2nd with a mouthpiece and not p-ported. Gas for me would be through the QC and into either the nasal OC reg p-ported to the mask, or the BOV through the mouth p-port. In the event of a caustic cocktail, the loop can be removed from the mouth and the nasal reg moved to the mouth port. I would just carry a dummy plug for the remaining p-port hole.

This makes possible:

1. single point hookup during kit up.
2. same offboard gas mix for any bailout method
3. quick nasal sanity breaths via nasal OC reg
4. prolonged bailout via BOV OC
5. offboard regulators remain all diver compatible
6. caustic cocktail contingency with the nasal OC reg reported to mouth
7. if absolutely nessessary, removal of FFM and bailout to standard OC

Alleviates putting p-port adapters on all tank regulators or adding additional unP-ported 2nd stages on.

I'm thinking I'd flip the BOV to have the hose come out diver right, the same way the nasal OC reg comes off the mask. The two reg hoses would be pointed in the same direction and could come into a Y-block behind the divers head. The single hose would then run down the diver left side and loop up by the drysuit inflation hose for convenient access to all offboard whips. Think single-point refueling for all you aviation types. Gas switches take place only through manual intervention from the diver (no accidental switches). Bottle whips will have MOD tags at the OC end for FO2 varification.

What do you guys think? Only a single hose that does it all with no gas switching blocks to complicate things or create dangerous FO2's, and no need for manifolds other than a simple Y-block.

cramerdn · 5th May 2008, 21:44

I got my mask and BOV last week as well. I have a question. It seems really hard to reach the mouthpeice inside the mask with my lips/teeth. I slid the mouthpeice all the way to the rear but its still a stretch to reach. Is that normal or am I weirdly shaped? I would assume that if I relax my grip with my mouth the mouth peice shold still be right there, easy to grip again.

mempilot · 5th May 2008, 22:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by cramerdn)

I got my mask and BOV last week as well. I have a question. It seems really hard to reach the mouthpeice inside the mask with my lips/teeth. I slid the mouthpeice all the way to the rear but its still a stretch to reach. Is that normal or am I weirdly shaped? I would assume that if I relax my grip with my mouth the mouth peice shold still be right there, easy to grip again.

I found that when just trying the mask on, I wasn't tightening the lower straps enough to pull the chin of the mask in. I now put is on chin in first, grab the mouth piece and then pull the straps tight and work my way up. After it is cinched on tight, the mouth piece is comfortably where is should be.

mempilot · 5th May 2008, 22:40

I flipped the BOV hose direction to come in from diver right and mounted a swivel to it. The hose will run directly in line with the hose off the OC 2nd as seen in the picture. The Y-block will connect the two hoses behind the divers head. Then the terminating single lead hose will route down the divers left side and end in a shut off and QC.

Note the HUD mount. I'm going to run the cable all the way across the BOV and have it stick out to the left eye. Placing the standard mount outboard as far as possible on the other side allows the HUD to be viewable with the left eye. It is not possible to rig the short post on the standard side in a way that makes the HUD viewable since the HUD is positioned inboard of the post. to get the length out of the cable, it just doesn't get wound around the loop like it used to, and it is held in place with small innertube.

tecdivertraining · 6th May 2008, 00:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Like Lance, I've taken delivery of the Drager Panorama Nova FFM. Very nice fit, comfort, and quality. I also received my new Golem Vario BOV from Jakub and completed a shakedown dive with it yesterday. Now, it is time to plumb the mask/BOV combination for bailout scenarios.

To keep it simple, I always dive my DIL and deep bailout gasses with the same mix. So, I'm planning on plumbing the OC 2nd p-ported to the mask and the BOV to a Y-block, which will terminate in a QC. This single QC will allow me to plug into any cylinder via an accomodating whip, thus making bailout, loop volume addition via the nasal reg, nasal bailout, and oral bailout all centralized to a single tank which can be switched on the fly. (No switching blocks)

The next part of the plan is this: I want to leave my OC bailout and deco bottles setup for passing to buddies by leaving the 2nd with a mouthpiece and not p-ported. Gas for me would be through the QC and into either the nasal OC reg p-ported to the mask, or the BOV through the mouth p-port. In the event of a caustic cocktail, the loop can be removed from the mouth and the nasal reg moved to the mouth port. I would just carry a dummy plug for the remaining p-port hole.

This makes possible:

1. single point hookup during kit up.
2. same offboard gas mix for any bailout method
3. quick nasal sanity breaths via nasal OC reg
4. prolonged bailout via BOV OC
5. offboard regulators remain all diver compatible
6. caustic cocktail contingency with the nasal OC reg reported to mouth
7. if absolutely nessessary, removal of FFM and bailout to standard OC

Alleviates putting p-port adapters on all tank regulators or adding additional unP-ported 2nd stages on.

I'm thinking I'd flip the BOV to have the hose come out diver right, the same way the nasal OC reg comes off the mask. The two reg hoses would be pointed in the same direction and could come into a Y-block behind the divers head. The single hose would then run down the diver left side and loop up by the drysuit inflation hose for convenient access to all offboard whips. Think single-point refueling for all you aviation types. Gas switches take place only through manual intervention from the diver (no accidental switches). Bottle whips will have MOD tags at the OC end for FO2 varification.

What do you guys think? Only a single hose that does it all with no gas switching blocks to complicate things or create dangerous FO2's, and no need for manifolds other than a simple Y-block.

depending on the dives you plan a major benefit for using the mask is always the risk of a O2 hit during long deco or Getting type 3 hit from ICD during your OC gas switches, for this reason I put on P-port adaptor on my stage reg's and then just slid a mouthpiece over them so you could either breath off them or pass the gas of or plug it into the mask for those long hangs.

I also needed to adjust the apeks reg as with rich He (5/70 )mixes it free flowed easy and wasted all my dil.

Just out of interest in you pics You are using a standard HUD holder can you see it in water?

mempilot · 6th May 2008, 00:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

depending on the dives you plan a major benefit for using the mask is always the risk of a O2 hit during long deco or Getting type 3 hit from ICD during your OC gas switches, for this reason I put on P-port adaptor on my stage reg's and then just slid a mouthpiece over them so you could either breath off them or pass the gas of or plug it into the mask for those long hangs.

I'm confused a little here. If the stage bottles can be plugged into the BOV and nasal OC reg, why would I need to p-port them? During an OC deco after bailout, either the BOV could be used shallow, or the nasal reg could be ported to the mouth port after going off the BOV. This leaves the 2nd stages on the offboard bottles setup with mouth pieces for donation.

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

Just out of interest in you pics You are using a standard HUD holder can you see it in water?

It is viewable by the left eye by looking down slightly. In the standard position, it is not due to the HUD being blocked by the nasal cup portion of the mask. There is no way to move the HUD outboard on the standard side. This is an alternative to using a tall mount.

tecdivertraining · 6th May 2008, 01:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

I'm confused a little here. If the stage bottles can be plugged into the BOV and nasal OC reg, why would I need to p-port them? During an OC deco after bailout, either the BOV could be used shallow, or the nasal reg could be ported to the mouth port after going off the BOV. This leaves the 2nd stages on the offboard bottles setup with mouth pieces for donation.

Just to be on the same page, you are looking to use a quick connect to allow you to plug in the off-board gases to both second stage or BOV. where is that connector located?

If so what type of QC did you go for?

It is viewable by the left eye by looking down slightly. In the standard position, it is not due to the HUD being blocked by the nasal cup portion of the mask. There is no way to move the HUD outboard on the standard side. This is an alternative to using a tall mount.[/quote]

If you like I have two Longer HUD stalks I made You can take one if you like. Just PM me you address and I pop it in the post.

mempilot · 6th May 2008, 01:15

[quote=tecdivertraining;185263]
Just to be on the same page, you are looking to use a quick connect to allow you to plug in the off-board gases to both second stage or BOV. where is that connector located?

If so what type of QC did you go for?

The QC will be located in a similiar location to the drysuit inflator valve (mid chest area and easy to access visually). One hose with a shutoff feeds both OC and BOV via a Y-block. I'm using the QC that Jakub sells at Golem Gear.
Quick disconnect for BOV or second stage regulator.

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

If you like I have two Longer HUD stalks I made You can take one if you like. Just PM me you address and I pop it in the post.

I going to try this first and see if I like the placement; otherwise, I'll go with the longer stalk.

Thanks,

Eric

tecdivertraining · 6th May 2008, 01:22

deleted as duplicate post.

tecdivertraining · 6th May 2008, 01:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

The QC will be located in a similiar location to the drysuit inflator valve (mid chest area and easy to access visually). One hose with a shutoff feeds both OC and BOV via a Y-block. I'm using the QC that Jakub sells at Golem Gear.
Quick disconnect for BOV or second stage regulator.

Thought that might be the case, I have this QC and its a royal Pain in the ass, I would not like to be breathing from my onboard gas supply in deep water while trying to disconnect that type of fitting and then pug you offboard in, each to their own though, I have worked with lots of student using this fitting and all have some probs when needing to disconnect it in a stressful situation. even if you can see it.

5th May 2008, 20:56	#1 (permalink)
mempilot What is this..terrafirma? Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,113	Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Like Lance, I've taken delivery of the Drager Panorama Nova FFM. Very nice fit, comfort, and quality. I also received my new Golem Vario BOV from Jakub and completed a shakedown dive with it yesterday. Now, it is time to plumb the mask/BOV combination for bailout scenarios. To keep it simple, I always dive my DIL and deep bailout gasses with the same mix. So, I'm planning on plumbing the OC 2nd p-ported to the mask and the BOV to a Y-block, which will terminate in a QC. This single QC will allow me to plug into any cylinder via an accomodating whip, thus making bailout, loop volume addition via the nasal reg, nasal bailout, and oral bailout all centralized to a single tank which can be switched on the fly. (No switching blocks) The next part of the plan is this: I want to leave my OC bailout and deco bottles setup for passing to buddies by leaving the 2nd with a mouthpiece and not p-ported. Gas for me would be through the QC and into either the nasal OC reg p-ported to the mask, or the BOV through the mouth p-port. In the event of a caustic cocktail, the loop can be removed from the mouth and the nasal reg moved to the mouth port. I would just carry a dummy plug for the remaining p-port hole. This makes possible: 1. single point hookup during kit up. 2. same offboard gas mix for any bailout method 3. quick nasal sanity breaths via nasal OC reg 4. prolonged bailout via BOV OC 5. offboard regulators remain all diver compatible 6. caustic cocktail contingency with the nasal OC reg reported to mouth 7. if absolutely nessessary, removal of FFM and bailout to standard OC Alleviates putting p-port adapters on all tank regulators or adding additional unP-ported 2nd stages on. I'm thinking I'd flip the BOV to have the hose come out diver right, the same way the nasal OC reg comes off the mask. The two reg hoses would be pointed in the same direction and could come into a Y-block behind the divers head. The single hose would then run down the diver left side and loop up by the drysuit inflation hose for convenient access to all offboard whips. Think single-point refueling for all you aviation types. Gas switches take place only through manual intervention from the diver (no accidental switches). Bottle whips will have MOD tags at the OC end for FO2 varification. What do you guys think? Only a single hose that does it all with no gas switching blocks to complicate things or create dangerous FO2's, and no need for manifolds other than a simple Y-block. __________________ MEM "Da Pilot" Black holes are where God divided by zero. "If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent." "Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins "Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."
(Offline)

5th May 2008, 21:44	#2 (permalink)
cramerdn Living The Dream, Baby!! Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Townsville QLD Posts: 421	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios I got my mask and BOV last week as well. I have a question. It seems really hard to reach the mouthpeice inside the mask with my lips/teeth. I slid the mouthpeice all the way to the rear but its still a stretch to reach. Is that normal or am I weirdly shaped? I would assume that if I relax my grip with my mouth the mouth peice shold still be right there, easy to grip again. __________________ "Its better to live one day as a tiger than an entire life as a worm." "But who's ever heard of a worm skin rug?"
(Online)

5th May 2008, 22:20	#3 (permalink)
mempilot What is this..terrafirma? Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,113	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Quote: (Originally Posted by cramerdn) I got my mask and BOV last week as well. I have a question. It seems really hard to reach the mouthpeice inside the mask with my lips/teeth. I slid the mouthpeice all the way to the rear but its still a stretch to reach. Is that normal or am I weirdly shaped? I would assume that if I relax my grip with my mouth the mouth peice shold still be right there, easy to grip again. I found that when just trying the mask on, I wasn't tightening the lower straps enough to pull the chin of the mask in. I now put is on chin in first, grab the mouth piece and then pull the straps tight and work my way up. After it is cinched on tight, the mouth piece is comfortably where is should be. __________________ MEM "Da Pilot" Black holes are where God divided by zero. "If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent." "Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins "Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."
(Offline)

6th May 2008, 00:33	#5 (permalink)
tecdivertraining RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 389	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Like Lance, I've taken delivery of the Drager Panorama Nova FFM. Very nice fit, comfort, and quality. I also received my new Golem Vario BOV from Jakub and completed a shakedown dive with it yesterday. Now, it is time to plumb the mask/BOV combination for bailout scenarios. To keep it simple, I always dive my DIL and deep bailout gasses with the same mix. So, I'm planning on plumbing the OC 2nd p-ported to the mask and the BOV to a Y-block, which will terminate in a QC. This single QC will allow me to plug into any cylinder via an accomodating whip, thus making bailout, loop volume addition via the nasal reg, nasal bailout, and oral bailout all centralized to a single tank which can be switched on the fly. (No switching blocks) The next part of the plan is this: I want to leave my OC bailout and deco bottles setup for passing to buddies by leaving the 2nd with a mouthpiece and not p-ported. Gas for me would be through the QC and into either the nasal OC reg p-ported to the mask, or the BOV through the mouth p-port. In the event of a caustic cocktail, the loop can be removed from the mouth and the nasal reg moved to the mouth port. I would just carry a dummy plug for the remaining p-port hole. This makes possible: 1. single point hookup during kit up. 2. same offboard gas mix for any bailout method 3. quick nasal sanity breaths via nasal OC reg 4. prolonged bailout via BOV OC 5. offboard regulators remain all diver compatible 6. caustic cocktail contingency with the nasal OC reg reported to mouth 7. if absolutely nessessary, removal of FFM and bailout to standard OC Alleviates putting p-port adapters on all tank regulators or adding additional unP-ported 2nd stages on. I'm thinking I'd flip the BOV to have the hose come out diver right, the same way the nasal OC reg comes off the mask. The two reg hoses would be pointed in the same direction and could come into a Y-block behind the divers head. The single hose would then run down the diver left side and loop up by the drysuit inflation hose for convenient access to all offboard whips. Think single-point refueling for all you aviation types. Gas switches take place only through manual intervention from the diver (no accidental switches). Bottle whips will have MOD tags at the OC end for FO2 varification. What do you guys think? Only a single hose that does it all with no gas switching blocks to complicate things or create dangerous FO2's, and no need for manifolds other than a simple Y-block. depending on the dives you plan a major benefit for using the mask is always the risk of a O2 hit during long deco or Getting type 3 hit from ICD during your OC gas switches, for this reason I put on P-port adaptor on my stage reg's and then just slid a mouthpiece over them so you could either breath off them or pass the gas of or plug it into the mask for those long hangs. I also needed to adjust the apeks reg as with rich He (5/70 )mixes it free flowed easy and wasted all my dil. Just out of interest in you pics You are using a standard HUD holder can you see it in water? __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com
(Offline)

6th May 2008, 00:52	#6 (permalink)
mempilot What is this..terrafirma? Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,113	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) depending on the dives you plan a major benefit for using the mask is always the risk of a O2 hit during long deco or Getting type 3 hit from ICD during your OC gas switches, for this reason I put on P-port adaptor on my stage reg's and then just slid a mouthpiece over them so you could either breath off them or pass the gas of or plug it into the mask for those long hangs. I'm confused a little here. If the stage bottles can be plugged into the BOV and nasal OC reg, why would I need to p-port them? During an OC deco after bailout, either the BOV could be used shallow, or the nasal reg could be ported to the mouth port after going off the BOV. This leaves the 2nd stages on the offboard bottles setup with mouth pieces for donation. Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) Just out of interest in you pics You are using a standard HUD holder can you see it in water? It is viewable by the left eye by looking down slightly. In the standard position, it is not due to the HUD being blocked by the nasal cup portion of the mask. There is no way to move the HUD outboard on the standard side. This is an alternative to using a tall mount. __________________ MEM "Da Pilot" Black holes are where God divided by zero. "If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent." "Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins "Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."
(Offline)

6th May 2008, 01:08	#7 (permalink)
tecdivertraining RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 389	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) I'm confused a little here. If the stage bottles can be plugged into the BOV and nasal OC reg, why would I need to p-port them? During an OC deco after bailout, either the BOV could be used shallow, or the nasal reg could be ported to the mouth port after going off the BOV. This leaves the 2nd stages on the offboard bottles setup with mouth pieces for donation. Just to be on the same page, you are looking to use a quick connect to allow you to plug in the off-board gases to both second stage or BOV. where is that connector located? If so what type of QC did you go for? It is viewable by the left eye by looking down slightly. In the standard position, it is not due to the HUD being blocked by the nasal cup portion of the mask. There is no way to move the HUD outboard on the standard side. This is an alternative to using a tall mount.[/quote] If you like I have two Longer HUD stalks I made You can take one if you like. Just PM me you address and I pop it in the post. __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com
(Offline)

6th May 2008, 01:15	#8 (permalink)
mempilot What is this..terrafirma? Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,113	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios [quote=tecdivertraining;185263] Just to be on the same page, you are looking to use a quick connect to allow you to plug in the off-board gases to both second stage or BOV. where is that connector located? If so what type of QC did you go for? The QC will be located in a similiar location to the drysuit inflator valve (mid chest area and easy to access visually). One hose with a shutoff feeds both OC and BOV via a Y-block. I'm using the QC that Jakub sells at Golem Gear. Quick disconnect for BOV or second stage regulator. Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) If you like I have two Longer HUD stalks I made You can take one if you like. Just PM me you address and I pop it in the post. I going to try this first and see if I like the placement; otherwise, I'll go with the longer stalk. Thanks, Eric __________________ MEM "Da Pilot" Black holes are where God divided by zero. "If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent." "Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins "Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."
(Offline)

6th May 2008, 01:22	#9 (permalink)
tecdivertraining RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 389	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios deleted as duplicate post. __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com Last edited by tecdivertraining : 6th May 2008 at 01:26.
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6th May 2008, 01:25	#10 (permalink)
tecdivertraining RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 389	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) The QC will be located in a similiar location to the drysuit inflator valve (mid chest area and easy to access visually). One hose with a shutoff feeds both OC and BOV via a Y-block. I'm using the QC that Jakub sells at Golem Gear. Quick disconnect for BOV or second stage regulator. Thought that might be the case, I have this QC and its a royal Pain in the ass, I would not like to be breathing from my onboard gas supply in deep water while trying to disconnect that type of fitting and then pug you offboard in, each to their own though, I have worked with lots of student using this fitting and all have some probs when needing to disconnect it in a stressful situation. even if you can see it. __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com
(Offline)

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