Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios

Lancer4545 · 8th May 2008, 08:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

As far as the manifold, it may come to that. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible, but I see your path to ending up there. .

Hi Eric,

Please don't think I am trying to push one onto you......I am simply trying to point out the advantages and disadvantages of the different set ups from what I have experienced myself as I am sure Mike does too.

Ultimately you make your own mind up for what works best for you and the type of diving you'll be doing.

Put your findings up here so we can follow you through it all........

Regards,

Lance

mempilot · 8th May 2008, 15:40

Ok, finally awake from last night's dives. Here is what I found:

Mask:

Pros:
1. Awesome field of vision
2. Comfort

Cons:
1. Makes kitting up more tedious due to limited movement in the down direction since the BOV hits the chest.
2. Clearing with nose pinchers not as easy as half mask

Changes:
1. I'm going to try putting the mask on last so everything is more manageable without a dive tender.
2. I did not dive with a hood last night, so that will be the next addition.

Plumbing:

Pros:
1. Very simple 2 into 1
2. Did not notice any restriction of movement in any direction
3. Did not notice any restriction in WOB at 25m (nasal or BOV)

Cons:
1. With limited chin down movement due to BOV size and placement due to mask, access to the chest area is defineatly more restricted than with a half mask.
2. QC is more difficult to manipulate with gloves on as DrMike pointed out

Changes:
1. Will devise a more permanent location for the QC coupling that makes it a muscle memory recovery.
2. Will consider a different type of QC that is larger (ie. SP)

BOV/Nasal Reg:

Pros:
1. Golem BOV operation is super simple
2. WOB on on the Golem DSV is better than expected
3. Nasal BOR is instantaneous
4. I feel much more confident during high workload times (ie. pulling along a suface line where standard bailout would be impossible without letting go)
5. Can fine tune loop volume with the nasal reg without turning ADV back on(this is an awesome feature while maneuvering vertically in a wreck)

Cons:
1. With any water in the mask at all, nasal reg gurgles if you use it

Changes:
1. Still considering running the nasal off onboard, and BOV off offboard. The thing that worries me is overuses the nasal reg will run onboard DIL level down.
2. Need to test WOB and flow rates through these and their plumbing at depth. My next dives with the mask will be at 35m, 41m, and 52m.

This is my first swipe at evaluating the setup. I know what I'm not happy with at the moment, and will make those changes. Lance, I may need that manifold. I'm probably going to end up with too many hoses!

Lancer4545 · 9th May 2008, 01:05

Hey Eric,

Nice to hear you had a good dive and starting to come to grips with it...There is quite a lot that's different to what you have been accustomed to and and it will take a little time to get the memory muscle around it all and have the same reflex actions to what you have been doing in the past.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Cons:
1. Makes kitting up more tedious due to limited movement in the down direction since the BOV hits the chest.

This is the one part of the predive that is a bit of a pain. I have a bit of trouble getting to the mask straps with the unit fitted as the loop hoses are right in the way. I put the Apeks reg on the hose and hang it out the front. Put the mask on and adjust the straps, starting at the bottom working your way up. Plug the Apeks reg in and take a couple of quick breaths from it to make sure it's working. Then fit the BOV, take a couple of quick breaths from it too before you open the loop, go onto the loop to get the scrubber activated. Then fit your gloves as they make the whole process 10 times harder if they're already on.

I have the ISC DSV and head movement down is not a lot better.....

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

2. Clearing with nose pinchers not as easy as half mask

You might have to bend the pinchers to get them in the right place. MAKE SURE to remove them when you bend them and don't try to bend them on the mask or else you might crack the lens.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Changes:
1. I'm going to try putting the mask on last so everything is more manageable without a dive tender.

See above.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

2. I did not dive with a hood last night, so that will be the next addition.

I have trimmed a bit off the face surrounds on my hood so it doesn't get under the sealing lip on the mask....

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

3. Did not notice any restriction in WOB at 25m (nasal or BOV)

I've tried mine at 75m and it worked beautifully.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Cons:
1. With limited chin down movement due to BOV size and placement due to mask, access to the chest area is defineatly more restricted than with a half mask.

Not a lot we can do about this.....and it's not a lot better with a DSV.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

2. QC is more difficult to manipulate with gloves on as DrMike pointed out

Try running your 2 hoses a bit longer so you can pull them out in front of you so you can see the QD. I am still using the M&J and although I had a heck of a time with it when I had short hoses, now it's not an issue and can clip it together and off first time every time.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Changes:
1. Will devise a more permanent location for the QC coupling that makes it a muscle memory recovery.

2. Will consider a different type of QC that is larger (ie. SP)

Try the longer hoses before you change it.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

BOV/Nasal Reg:

Pros:
1. Golem BOV operation is super simple
2. WOB on on the Golem DSV is better than expected
3. Nasal BOR is instantaneous
4. I feel much more confident during high workload times (ie. pulling along a suface line where standard bailout would be impossible without letting go)
5. Can fine tune loop volume with the nasal reg without turning ADV back on(this is an awesome feature while maneuvering vertically in a wreck)

Adding loop volume is so easy with this set up and I think it has to be one of the biggest advantages of the whole sytem. I now only use the ADV for flushing the loop and cell checks.

I have stopped at the bottom of descent a couple of times and had a few sanity breaths from the nasal reg when I found I was puffing after a hard job getting down. It's so easy and you don't even have to move your hands. You'll be more likely to take a few breaths when you otherwise might not due to having to hang on in a strong current with one hand and your camera or torch in the other.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Cons:
1. With any water in the mask at all, nasal reg gurgles if you use it

Try tilting your head so the water sits over the Apeks P'Port and then breath out through your nose to expell the water.....EASY!!!

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Changes:
1. Still considering running the nasal off onboard, and BOV off offboard. The thing that worries me is overuses the nasal reg will run onboard DIL level down.

I can see an order for a manifold soon......

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

2. Need to test WOB and flow rates through these and their plumbing at depth. My next dives with the mask will be at 35m, 41m, and 52m.

This is my first swipe at evaluating the setup. I know what I'm not happy with at the moment, and will make those changes. Lance, I may need that manifold. I'm probably going to end up with too many hoses!

One last thing....When you pack the mask away don't let the straps touch the inside of the lens as it will stain it in time and you can't get it off!!! I now place a soft handkerchief inside the mask to keep them away from it. They are very hard to come by and I've had to order a new one from Germany to replace it!!!!

Regards,

Lance

***Decodiver*** · 13th May 2008, 10:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Mouthbites stretched over p-ports is not for me, and I wouldn't do it to my buddy. I find it very uncomfortable, easy to pop off, and therefore not a good solution for me. I will respect others whom decide to do so, but there has to be a better way.

Eric,

Check out this thread here:

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/full-...ortable-6.html

Post #51 shows some alternatives, they are available from:

REBREATHER

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

8th May 2008, 08:13	#31 (permalink)
Lancer4545 Closed Circuit Divers Aus Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cairns QLD Australia Posts: 528	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) As far as the manifold, it may come to that. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible, but I see your path to ending up there. . Hi Eric, Please don't think I am trying to push one onto you......I am simply trying to point out the advantages and disadvantages of the different set ups from what I have experienced myself as I am sure Mike does too. Ultimately you make your own mind up for what works best for you and the type of diving you'll be doing. Put your findings up here so we can follow you through it all........ Regards, Lance __________________ You can run but you can't hide! ISC Appointed Megalodon Dealer for East Australia http://www.closedcircuitdivers.com.au info@closedcircuitdivers.com.au
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8th May 2008, 15:40	#32 (permalink)
mempilot What is this..terrafirma? Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,089	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Ok, finally awake from last night's dives. Here is what I found: Mask: Pros: 1. Awesome field of vision 2. Comfort Cons: 1. Makes kitting up more tedious due to limited movement in the down direction since the BOV hits the chest. 2. Clearing with nose pinchers not as easy as half mask Changes: 1. I'm going to try putting the mask on last so everything is more manageable without a dive tender. 2. I did not dive with a hood last night, so that will be the next addition. Plumbing: Pros: 1. Very simple 2 into 1 2. Did not notice any restriction of movement in any direction 3. Did not notice any restriction in WOB at 25m (nasal or BOV) Cons: 1. With limited chin down movement due to BOV size and placement due to mask, access to the chest area is defineatly more restricted than with a half mask. 2. QC is more difficult to manipulate with gloves on as DrMike pointed out Changes: 1. Will devise a more permanent location for the QC coupling that makes it a muscle memory recovery. 2. Will consider a different type of QC that is larger (ie. SP) BOV/Nasal Reg: Pros: 1. Golem BOV operation is super simple 2. WOB on on the Golem DSV is better than expected 3. Nasal BOR is instantaneous 4. I feel much more confident during high workload times (ie. pulling along a suface line where standard bailout would be impossible without letting go) 5. Can fine tune loop volume with the nasal reg without turning ADV back on(this is an awesome feature while maneuvering vertically in a wreck) Cons: 1. With any water in the mask at all, nasal reg gurgles if you use it Changes: 1. Still considering running the nasal off onboard, and BOV off offboard. The thing that worries me is overuses the nasal reg will run onboard DIL level down. 2. Need to test WOB and flow rates through these and their plumbing at depth. My next dives with the mask will be at 35m, 41m, and 52m. This is my first swipe at evaluating the setup. I know what I'm not happy with at the moment, and will make those changes. Lance, I may need that manifold. I'm probably going to end up with too many hoses! __________________ MEM "Da Pilot" Black holes are where God divided by zero. "If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent." "Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins "Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."
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9th May 2008, 01:05	#33 (permalink)
Lancer4545 Closed Circuit Divers Aus Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cairns QLD Australia Posts: 528	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Hey Eric, Nice to hear you had a good dive and starting to come to grips with it...There is quite a lot that's different to what you have been accustomed to and and it will take a little time to get the memory muscle around it all and have the same reflex actions to what you have been doing in the past. Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Cons: 1. Makes kitting up more tedious due to limited movement in the down direction since the BOV hits the chest. This is the one part of the predive that is a bit of a pain. I have a bit of trouble getting to the mask straps with the unit fitted as the loop hoses are right in the way. I put the Apeks reg on the hose and hang it out the front. Put the mask on and adjust the straps, starting at the bottom working your way up. Plug the Apeks reg in and take a couple of quick breaths from it to make sure it's working. Then fit the BOV, take a couple of quick breaths from it too before you open the loop, go onto the loop to get the scrubber activated. Then fit your gloves as they make the whole process 10 times harder if they're already on. I have the ISC DSV and head movement down is not a lot better..... Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) 2. Clearing with nose pinchers not as easy as half mask You might have to bend the pinchers to get them in the right place. MAKE SURE to remove them when you bend them and don't try to bend them on the mask or else you might crack the lens. Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Changes: 1. I'm going to try putting the mask on last so everything is more manageable without a dive tender. See above. Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) 2. I did not dive with a hood last night, so that will be the next addition. I have trimmed a bit off the face surrounds on my hood so it doesn't get under the sealing lip on the mask.... Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) 3. Did not notice any restriction in WOB at 25m (nasal or BOV) I've tried mine at 75m and it worked beautifully. Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Cons: 1. With limited chin down movement due to BOV size and placement due to mask, access to the chest area is defineatly more restricted than with a half mask. Not a lot we can do about this.....and it's not a lot better with a DSV. Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) 2. QC is more difficult to manipulate with gloves on as DrMike pointed out Try running your 2 hoses a bit longer so you can pull them out in front of you so you can see the QD. I am still using the M&J and although I had a heck of a time with it when I had short hoses, now it's not an issue and can clip it together and off first time every time. Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Changes: 1. Will devise a more permanent location for the QC coupling that makes it a muscle memory recovery. 2. Will consider a different type of QC that is larger (ie. SP) Try the longer hoses before you change it. Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) BOV/Nasal Reg: Pros: 1. Golem BOV operation is super simple 2. WOB on on the Golem DSV is better than expected 3. Nasal BOR is instantaneous 4. I feel much more confident during high workload times (ie. pulling along a suface line where standard bailout would be impossible without letting go) 5. Can fine tune loop volume with the nasal reg without turning ADV back on(this is an awesome feature while maneuvering vertically in a wreck) Adding loop volume is so easy with this set up and I think it has to be one of the biggest advantages of the whole sytem. I now only use the ADV for flushing the loop and cell checks. I have stopped at the bottom of descent a couple of times and had a few sanity breaths from the nasal reg when I found I was puffing after a hard job getting down. It's so easy and you don't even have to move your hands. You'll be more likely to take a few breaths when you otherwise might not due to having to hang on in a strong current with one hand and your camera or torch in the other. Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Cons: 1. With any water in the mask at all, nasal reg gurgles if you use it Try tilting your head so the water sits over the Apeks P'Port and then breath out through your nose to expell the water.....EASY!!! Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Changes: 1. Still considering running the nasal off onboard, and BOV off offboard. The thing that worries me is overuses the nasal reg will run onboard DIL level down. I can see an order for a manifold soon...... Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) 2. Need to test WOB and flow rates through these and their plumbing at depth. My next dives with the mask will be at 35m, 41m, and 52m. This is my first swipe at evaluating the setup. I know what I'm not happy with at the moment, and will make those changes. Lance, I may need that manifold. I'm probably going to end up with too many hoses! One last thing....When you pack the mask away don't let the straps touch the inside of the lens as it will stain it in time and you can't get it off!!! I now place a soft handkerchief inside the mask to keep them away from it. They are very hard to come by and I've had to order a new one from Germany to replace it!!!! Regards, Lance __________________ You can run but you can't hide! ISC Appointed Megalodon Dealer for East Australia http://www.closedcircuitdivers.com.au info@closedcircuitdivers.com.au Last edited by Lancer4545 : 9th May 2008 at 02:04. Reason: sp
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13th May 2008, 10:26	#34 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,164	Re: Drager Panorama/Golem BOV bailout scenarios Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Mouthbites stretched over p-ports is not for me, and I wouldn't do it to my buddy. I find it very uncomfortable, easy to pop off, and therefore not a good solution for me. I will respect others whom decide to do so, but there has to be a better way. Eric, Check out this thread here: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/full-...ortable-6.html Post #51 shows some alternatives, they are available from: REBREATHER Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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