Drager FFM with Golem BOV

mempilot · 26th April 2008, 20:16

Lance,

I know this thread is old, but I'm still thinking out the Drager options. I am not contemplating going the Drager/Golem route over just the ISC DSV route.

The question I have is this:

Is nasal bailout that difficult for short term while switching to offboard p-ported OC reg? Is this why you went with the Golem?

I don't want to spend almost $1.8k on the ISC setup if I can spend $2.4K on the Golem setup with a BOV. I'm assuming the Golem setup doesn't come with a 2nd stage ported into the mask, so how would the mask stay pressurized without it?

Thanks,

Eric

Lancer4545 · 27th April 2008, 07:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Lance,

I know this thread is old, but I'm still thinking out the Drager options. I am not contemplating going the Drager/Golem route over just the ISC DSV route.

The question I have is this:

Is nasal bailout that difficult for short term while switching to offboard p-ported OC reg? Is this why you went with the Golem?

I don't want to spend almost $1.8k on the ISC setup if I can spend $2.4K on the Golem setup with a BOV. I'm assuming the Golem setup doesn't come with a 2nd stage ported into the mask, so how would the mask stay pressurized without it?

Thanks,

Eric

Hi Eric,

The FFM as it is supplied from ISC with a full loop including DSV and the Apeks second stage is a fantastic set up. The Apecs second stage does slightly pressurise the inside of the FFM which curbs any leaking water into the facial cavity of the mask. It also allows you to add loop volume providing it's plummed into your dil, my nice manifold works a treat here, and it also allows you the ability to remove the, Primary Ported, DSV whilst still being able to take a few nose breaths when your changing from your DSV to another "Bailout" second stage.

It's not a good idea to nose breathe for any period of time as the "Dead Airspace" in the mask can retain CO2. So it's only practical for a few breaths. I have actually had a few nasal "Sanity" breaths at the bottom of descent when I wasn't sure if I was puffing like a steam train from working too hard or I was having a scrubber issue. It was probably a combination of both but it was real easy.....Just breathe through your nose for a couple of breaths and then go back on the loop. You don't have to do anything other than to think which way your going to breathe leaving your hands free to hold the line and your torch or whatever....

I know...it sounds real easy.....push the green button slide the DSV off and slip the second stage in and away you go. But in practice it's not that easy. In the beginning it's a bit of a hassle disconnecting the DSV and then there is the problem of aligning and fitting the second stage. Once you have it in and your sorted there is also the hassle of the loop sitting right there in front of your face getting in the way. It's a real pain in the ass!!! The other thing is try to bleed the water out of the DSV when you replace it into the Primary Port. It seems to take for ever and you have to blow like mad to purge the water before you can open the loop to get your next breath. And it's even worse when you have just replaced the FFM underwater and it's full of water and you can't take a nose breath.

The Golem BOV on the other hand, all you need to do is slip the flow stop to open and then twist the knob on the front and you're bailed. When you get the "Vario" version you can also buy a bite mouthpiece adapter and is as easy as removing and replacing 4 screws to swap it over to whichever configuration you want to dive. If you want to remove the BOV and then replace it and purge the water it's almost effortless and takes a split second to do....and "Less Stress"

If you don't have a bailout second stage when you bailout you'll have to remove the FFM.

If your bail out second stage is fitted with a P'Port and not a bite mouthpiece you have other considerations........I had milled over this for a while considering my options. What if a buddy needed my bail out gas....He would need to either remove his second stage and mine and swap them over or he would be there sucking on a P'Port....Not a very nice thought for an hour or more.

Another other consideration was what if my mask failed and I had to remove it. Then I'd be the dummy sitting there looking like I was sucking on a salami......Not to mention how uncomfortable it'd be!!

The Golem BOV and ISC FFM you have it all sorted in one hit. Bail out is easy, fast and almost stress free, should I need to donate gas there is a conventional second stage for their use and if I need to ditch the FFM it's also there for me.

I had no trouble selling my original Golem BOV when I got the "Vario" and got a good price so the change over is not going to be all that costly...That is if you already have one.

Let me know if you want a few pics of my set up to check out.

<added> The Golem set up is just for the bare mask and then you'll need to add the other bits and pieces. The system won't work anywhere near as well without the Apeks second stage and I am not sure that I would want to either!! When you look at what you get with the ISC setup it's actually good value for money.

Regards,

Lance

lof · 28th April 2008, 03:19

The Drager FFM will not flood even when you remove the BOV from the center p-port. So you have plenty of time (as long as you can hold your breath

)to swap to secondary reg
You can always use Dr. Mikes p-port adaptres to adapt any Apeks reg to p-ported one.
Golem Gear, Inc. - p-port adapter for standard regulator

mempilot · 28th April 2008, 04:09

Just placed the order at Golem Gear.

Drager FFM
Vario BOV p-ported clamped
2 Dr. Mike p-port adapters
Vario mouthpiece adapter plate
QC

Can't wait!!!!

Lancer4545 · 28th April 2008, 04:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Just placed the order at Golem Gear.

Drager FFM
Vario BOV p-ported clamped
2 Dr. Mike p-port adapters
Vario mouthpiece adapter plate
QC

Can't wait!!!!

Very nice.

Once you get used to it you'll love it

Regards,

Lance

lof · 29th April 2008, 02:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Just placed the order at Golem Gear.

Drager FFM
Vario BOV p-ported clamped
2 Dr. Mike p-port adapters
Vario mouthpiece adapter plate
QC

Can't wait!!!!

Got it. Thanks.

Will ship ASAP

**kybrt** · 29th April 2008, 03:48

how does the draeger ffm deal with those of us who need glasses?

is there a way to mount corrective lenses?

Lancer4545 · 29th April 2008, 07:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by kybrt)

how does the draeger ffm deal with those of us who need glasses?

is there a way to mount corrective lenses?

Hey Marv,

You can't fit that nice BOV onto a FFM so don't bother

Lance

lof · 30th April 2008, 01:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by kybrt)

how does the draeger ffm deal with those of us who need glasses?

is there a way to mount corrective lenses?

I wear contacts in my FFM

Pipnaintez · 5th May 2008, 05:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Just placed the order at Golem Gear.

Drager FFM
Vario BOV p-ported clamped
2 Dr. Mike p-port adapters
Vario mouthpiece adapter plate
QC

Can't wait!!!!

I ordered the same setup Friday. Hope it gets here by Wednesday so I can have it ready for our Texas Clipper trip this weekend. Im very excited!

26th April 2008, 20:16	#11 (permalink)
mempilot What is this..terrafirma? Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,089	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV Lance, I know this thread is old, but I'm still thinking out the Drager options. I am not contemplating going the Drager/Golem route over just the ISC DSV route. The question I have is this: Is nasal bailout that difficult for short term while switching to offboard p-ported OC reg? Is this why you went with the Golem? I don't want to spend almost $1.8k on the ISC setup if I can spend $2.4K on the Golem setup with a BOV. I'm assuming the Golem setup doesn't come with a 2nd stage ported into the mask, so how would the mask stay pressurized without it? Thanks, Eric __________________ MEM "Da Pilot" Black holes are where God divided by zero. "If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent." "Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins "Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."
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27th April 2008, 07:16	#12 (permalink)
Lancer4545 Closed Circuit Divers Aus Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cairns QLD Australia Posts: 528	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Lance, I know this thread is old, but I'm still thinking out the Drager options. I am not contemplating going the Drager/Golem route over just the ISC DSV route. The question I have is this: Is nasal bailout that difficult for short term while switching to offboard p-ported OC reg? Is this why you went with the Golem? I don't want to spend almost $1.8k on the ISC setup if I can spend $2.4K on the Golem setup with a BOV. I'm assuming the Golem setup doesn't come with a 2nd stage ported into the mask, so how would the mask stay pressurized without it? Thanks, Eric Hi Eric, The FFM as it is supplied from ISC with a full loop including DSV and the Apeks second stage is a fantastic set up. The Apecs second stage does slightly pressurise the inside of the FFM which curbs any leaking water into the facial cavity of the mask. It also allows you to add loop volume providing it's plummed into your dil, my nice manifold works a treat here, and it also allows you the ability to remove the, Primary Ported, DSV whilst still being able to take a few nose breaths when your changing from your DSV to another "Bailout" second stage. It's not a good idea to nose breathe for any period of time as the "Dead Airspace" in the mask can retain CO2. So it's only practical for a few breaths. I have actually had a few nasal "Sanity" breaths at the bottom of descent when I wasn't sure if I was puffing like a steam train from working too hard or I was having a scrubber issue. It was probably a combination of both but it was real easy.....Just breathe through your nose for a couple of breaths and then go back on the loop. You don't have to do anything other than to think which way your going to breathe leaving your hands free to hold the line and your torch or whatever.... I know...it sounds real easy.....push the green button slide the DSV off and slip the second stage in and away you go. But in practice it's not that easy. In the beginning it's a bit of a hassle disconnecting the DSV and then there is the problem of aligning and fitting the second stage. Once you have it in and your sorted there is also the hassle of the loop sitting right there in front of your face getting in the way. It's a real pain in the ass!!! The other thing is try to bleed the water out of the DSV when you replace it into the Primary Port. It seems to take for ever and you have to blow like mad to purge the water before you can open the loop to get your next breath. And it's even worse when you have just replaced the FFM underwater and it's full of water and you can't take a nose breath. The Golem BOV on the other hand, all you need to do is slip the flow stop to open and then twist the knob on the front and you're bailed. When you get the "Vario" version you can also buy a bite mouthpiece adapter and is as easy as removing and replacing 4 screws to swap it over to whichever configuration you want to dive. If you want to remove the BOV and then replace it and purge the water it's almost effortless and takes a split second to do....and "Less Stress" If you don't have a bailout second stage when you bailout you'll have to remove the FFM. If your bail out second stage is fitted with a P'Port and not a bite mouthpiece you have other considerations........I had milled over this for a while considering my options. What if a buddy needed my bail out gas....He would need to either remove his second stage and mine and swap them over or he would be there sucking on a P'Port....Not a very nice thought for an hour or more. Another other consideration was what if my mask failed and I had to remove it. Then I'd be the dummy sitting there looking like I was sucking on a salami......Not to mention how uncomfortable it'd be!! The Golem BOV and ISC FFM you have it all sorted in one hit. Bail out is easy, fast and almost stress free, should I need to donate gas there is a conventional second stage for their use and if I need to ditch the FFM it's also there for me. I had no trouble selling my original Golem BOV when I got the "Vario" and got a good price so the change over is not going to be all that costly...That is if you already have one. Let me know if you want a few pics of my set up to check out. <added> The Golem set up is just for the bare mask and then you'll need to add the other bits and pieces. The system won't work anywhere near as well without the Apeks second stage and I am not sure that I would want to either!! When you look at what you get with the ISC setup it's actually good value for money. Regards, Lance __________________ You can run but you can't hide! ISC Appointed Megalodon Dealer for East Australia http://www.closedcircuitdivers.com.au info@closedcircuitdivers.com.au Last edited by Lancer4545 : 28th April 2008 at 00:35. Reason: addition
(Online)

28th April 2008, 03:19	#13 (permalink)
lof RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 452	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV The Drager FFM will not flood even when you remove the BOV from the center p-port. So you have plenty of time (as long as you can hold your breath )to swap to secondary reg You can always use Dr. Mikes p-port adaptres to adapt any Apeks reg to p-ported one. Golem Gear, Inc. - p-port adapter for standard regulator __________________ Jakub Golem Gear ShopKeeper www.golemgear.com
(Offline)

28th April 2008, 04:09	#14 (permalink)
mempilot What is this..terrafirma? Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,089	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV Just placed the order at Golem Gear. Drager FFM Vario BOV p-ported clamped 2 Dr. Mike p-port adapters Vario mouthpiece adapter plate QC Can't wait!!!! __________________ MEM "Da Pilot" Black holes are where God divided by zero. "If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent." "Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins "Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."
(Offline)

28th April 2008, 04:22	#15 (permalink)
Lancer4545 Closed Circuit Divers Aus Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cairns QLD Australia Posts: 528	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Just placed the order at Golem Gear. Drager FFM Vario BOV p-ported clamped 2 Dr. Mike p-port adapters Vario mouthpiece adapter plate QC Can't wait!!!! Very nice. Once you get used to it you'll love it Regards, Lance __________________ You can run but you can't hide! ISC Appointed Megalodon Dealer for East Australia http://www.closedcircuitdivers.com.au info@closedcircuitdivers.com.au
(Online)

29th April 2008, 02:48	#16 (permalink)
lof RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 452	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Just placed the order at Golem Gear. Drager FFM Vario BOV p-ported clamped 2 Dr. Mike p-port adapters Vario mouthpiece adapter plate QC Can't wait!!!! Got it. Thanks. Will ship ASAP __________________ Jakub Golem Gear ShopKeeper www.golemgear.com
(Offline)

29th April 2008, 03:48	#17 (permalink)
kybrt too legit to quit Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Neuw Yawk Posts: 233	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV how does the draeger ffm deal with those of us who need glasses? is there a way to mount corrective lenses? __________________ Marv Fidelis Ad Mortem www.diveboatkaren.com
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29th April 2008, 07:17	#18 (permalink)
Lancer4545 Closed Circuit Divers Aus Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cairns QLD Australia Posts: 528	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV Quote: (Originally Posted by kybrt) how does the draeger ffm deal with those of us who need glasses? is there a way to mount corrective lenses? Hey Marv, You can't fit that nice BOV onto a FFM so don't bother Lance __________________ You can run but you can't hide! ISC Appointed Megalodon Dealer for East Australia http://www.closedcircuitdivers.com.au info@closedcircuitdivers.com.au
(Online)

30th April 2008, 01:55	#19 (permalink)
lof RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 452	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV Quote: (Originally Posted by kybrt) how does the draeger ffm deal with those of us who need glasses? is there a way to mount corrective lenses? I wear contacts in my FFM __________________ Jakub Golem Gear ShopKeeper www.golemgear.com
(Offline)

5th May 2008, 05:09	#20 (permalink)
Pipnaintez New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 52	Re: Drager FFM with Golem BOV Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Just placed the order at Golem Gear. Drager FFM Vario BOV p-ported clamped 2 Dr. Mike p-port adapters Vario mouthpiece adapter plate QC Can't wait!!!! I ordered the same setup Friday. Hope it gets here by Wednesday so I can have it ready for our Texas Clipper trip this weekend. Im very excited!
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