panorama bailout with different gases?

HMP · 31st May 2007, 08:20

Hi
I've been looking at full face masks for ages and I havent seen an ideal solution but maybe someone has already worked it out. The Mk48 (which is the one I use at the moment) is pretty good for bailout, you can then breath what ever gas you need, switch using a normal reg etc etc, though you lose your comms at what could potentially be a very poor moment, and then not get them back for the rest of the dive. Those microphones flood, yes I know there not supposed to but they do. And the vision is poor. You do get used to it, but really it is very poor.

So the drager alternative initially looks very good. Much nicer mask, you actually see what you went there to see, but what about bailout?

P port adapted reg in the side, looks pretty bulky to me, and swapping it doesnt look like an ideal activity either.

A BOV such as the pelagan one looks great, but is there a way to switch gases? How are the people who use this mask managing their bailout?

I guess you could take a few sanity breaths from a bov then remove mask but this is not acceptable in my opinion and one of my aims is to maintain a comms link.

Is there some sort of LP hose connector that you could use from each gas (potentially a different mix or just more of the same) that you could plug in to the BOV and carry on breathing?

Would be very interested to hear if someone has done this or if there are better alternatives.

hugh

**PhilSiswick** · 31st May 2007, 08:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by HMP)

Hi
I've been looking at full face masks for ages and I havent seen an ideal solution but maybe someone has already worked it out. The Mk48 (which is the one I use at the moment) is pretty good for bailout, you can then breath what ever gas you need, switch using a normal reg etc etc, though you lose your comms at what could potentially be a very poor moment, and then not get them back for the rest of the dive. Those microphones flood, yes I know there not supposed to but they do. And the vision is poor. You do get used to it, but really it is very poor.

So the drager alternative initially looks very good. Much nicer mask, you actually see what you went there to see, but what about bailout?

P port adapted reg in the side, looks pretty bulky to me, and swapping it doesnt look like an ideal activity either.

A BOV such as the pelagan one looks great, but is there a way to switch gases? How are the people who use this mask managing their bailout?

I guess you could take a few sanity breaths from a bov then remove mask but this is not acceptable in my opinion and one of my aims is to maintain a comms link.

Is there some sort of LP hose connector that you could use from each gas (potentially a different mix or just more of the same) that you could plug in to the BOV and carry on breathing?

Would be very interested to hear if someone has done this or if there are better alternatives.

hugh

I haven't done this (though I've always wanted to use an FFM, so watch these threads with interest), but surely the method with a BOV would be exactly the same as for anyone who wanted to use different OC gases on a FFM. I've seen people use a variety of gas switching blocks for this - any one of them would be suitable to use to switch the gases going into the BOV.

Of course, you'd still need something to deal with a situation where the BOV also wasn't usable, but that should be a relatively rare occurence, so you could keep going to a normal OC reg and a half mask for that eventuality.

Cheers,

Rebreatherlab · 31st May 2007, 12:03

Hi Hugh,

I have though about this also and tried a few things. You are right about bulkiness, plugging a P-ported 2nd stage to one of the side connectors.
I think the best approach will be to use a BOV and fit a 9/16-18 FM to Swagelook QC6 to it. Then just ad the reciprocal QC6 to your off boards LP hose and you can hot swap anything. The other way is to have a switch block manufactured ala Cis Lunar, but they tend to get bulky and if made light weight in aluminium we all know they dont last long.

Personally I think I will take the QC6 route, keep all LP hoses conveniently positioned on the left shoulder and of course clearly labeled!

The Draeger is very nice to dive with btw.

Andy

Quote: (Originally Posted by HMP)

Hi
I've been looking at full face masks for ages and I havent seen an ideal solution but maybe someone has already worked it out. The Mk48 (which is the one I use at the moment) is pretty good for bailout, you can then breath what ever gas you need, switch using a normal reg etc etc, though you lose your comms at what could potentially be a very poor moment, and then not get them back for the rest of the dive. Those microphones flood, yes I know there not supposed to but they do. And the vision is poor. You do get used to it, but really it is very poor.

So the drager alternative initially looks very good. Much nicer mask, you actually see what you went there to see, but what about bailout?

P port adapted reg in the side, looks pretty bulky to me, and swapping it doesnt look like an ideal activity either.

A BOV such as the pelagan one looks great, but is there a way to switch gases? How are the people who use this mask managing their bailout?

I guess you could take a few sanity breaths from a bov then remove mask but this is not acceptable in my opinion and one of my aims is to maintain a comms link.

Is there some sort of LP hose connector that you could use from each gas (potentially a different mix or just more of the same) that you could plug in to the BOV and carry on breathing?

Would be very interested to hear if someone has done this or if there are better alternatives.

hugh

colinicky · 31st May 2007, 13:51

The other option could be the AP BOV "when" it is released ,was told at the dive show that it can be fed from either side or BOTH sides obviously using shut of valves to isolate.

HMP · 31st May 2007, 18:49

Hi Andy
Sounds like you have the solution. Do you have any pictures of the parts or part numbers so that I could follow it up?
Also, Andy, I forget, which way does the gas pass on your BOV, I dive a MK15.5 so oxygenated gas is coming over my right shoulder, the opposite way to an Inspiration.

As for APD they were going to have a nice link up to the Drager with comms but it never happened. Oh well, will wait with interest for what they come up with, with regards a BOV.

All the best

Hugh

Rebreatherlab · 31st May 2007, 19:53

Hi Hugh,

I dont have any Swagelock parts numbers yet as I have not sourced the bits myself. After a quick browse it would appear as the Swagelock QC6 would need one extra adapter to work with standard 1/4" LP hose. This is not so good as too many adapters kills flex and ads failure points. Golem has a solution with only one adapter from 9/16 to nipple and the reciprocal adapts to your LP hose. The pair is priced a bit less than 100 USD. Have a look at their web site.

I am not sure why it would matter from which side of the loop you inhale. the main thing is from where you want to connect the BOV.

The Pelagian Bov uses left hand hose connect as DIL is carried on the left and it works very well with the Pelagian tiop mounted 1st stages. Also I have this silly idea that all lean gas should go on the left. Anyway, you can Install the BOV section to the DSV for right hand connection as the interface is symmetrical. Then you get the bubbles going our on the front instead of the rear side. I could also machine a custom BOV body to take the hose from right at no extra cost. If enough people prefer this I will simply stock both versions.

Hope this helps!

Andy

31st May 2007, 08:20	#1 (permalink)
HMP Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Plymouth, U.K. Posts: 102	panorama bailout with different gases? Hi I've been looking at full face masks for ages and I havent seen an ideal solution but maybe someone has already worked it out. The Mk48 (which is the one I use at the moment) is pretty good for bailout, you can then breath what ever gas you need, switch using a normal reg etc etc, though you lose your comms at what could potentially be a very poor moment, and then not get them back for the rest of the dive. Those microphones flood, yes I know there not supposed to but they do. And the vision is poor. You do get used to it, but really it is very poor. So the drager alternative initially looks very good. Much nicer mask, you actually see what you went there to see, but what about bailout? P port adapted reg in the side, looks pretty bulky to me, and swapping it doesnt look like an ideal activity either. A BOV such as the pelagan one looks great, but is there a way to switch gases? How are the people who use this mask managing their bailout? I guess you could take a few sanity breaths from a bov then remove mask but this is not acceptable in my opinion and one of my aims is to maintain a comms link. Is there some sort of LP hose connector that you could use from each gas (potentially a different mix or just more of the same) that you could plug in to the BOV and carry on breathing? Would be very interested to hear if someone has done this or if there are better alternatives. hugh
(Offline)

31st May 2007, 08:28	#2 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 996	Re: panorama bailout with different gases? Quote: (Originally Posted by HMP) Hi I've been looking at full face masks for ages and I havent seen an ideal solution but maybe someone has already worked it out. The Mk48 (which is the one I use at the moment) is pretty good for bailout, you can then breath what ever gas you need, switch using a normal reg etc etc, though you lose your comms at what could potentially be a very poor moment, and then not get them back for the rest of the dive. Those microphones flood, yes I know there not supposed to but they do. And the vision is poor. You do get used to it, but really it is very poor. So the drager alternative initially looks very good. Much nicer mask, you actually see what you went there to see, but what about bailout? P port adapted reg in the side, looks pretty bulky to me, and swapping it doesnt look like an ideal activity either. A BOV such as the pelagan one looks great, but is there a way to switch gases? How are the people who use this mask managing their bailout? I guess you could take a few sanity breaths from a bov then remove mask but this is not acceptable in my opinion and one of my aims is to maintain a comms link. Is there some sort of LP hose connector that you could use from each gas (potentially a different mix or just more of the same) that you could plug in to the BOV and carry on breathing? Would be very interested to hear if someone has done this or if there are better alternatives. hugh I haven't done this (though I've always wanted to use an FFM, so watch these threads with interest), but surely the method with a BOV would be exactly the same as for anyone who wanted to use different OC gases on a FFM. I've seen people use a variety of gas switching blocks for this - any one of them would be suitable to use to switch the gases going into the BOV. Of course, you'd still need something to deal with a situation where the BOV also wasn't usable, but that should be a relatively rare occurence, so you could keep going to a normal OC reg and a half mask for that eventuality. Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

31st May 2007, 12:03	#3 (permalink)
Rebreatherlab RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Classic Kiss Pelagian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thailand Posts: 202	Re: panorama bailout with different gases? Hi Hugh, I have though about this also and tried a few things. You are right about bulkiness, plugging a P-ported 2nd stage to one of the side connectors. I think the best approach will be to use a BOV and fit a 9/16-18 FM to Swagelook QC6 to it. Then just ad the reciprocal QC6 to your off boards LP hose and you can hot swap anything. The other way is to have a switch block manufactured ala Cis Lunar, but they tend to get bulky and if made light weight in aluminium we all know they dont last long. Personally I think I will take the QC6 route, keep all LP hoses conveniently positioned on the left shoulder and of course clearly labeled! The Draeger is very nice to dive with btw. Andy Quote: (Originally Posted by HMP) Hi I've been looking at full face masks for ages and I havent seen an ideal solution but maybe someone has already worked it out. The Mk48 (which is the one I use at the moment) is pretty good for bailout, you can then breath what ever gas you need, switch using a normal reg etc etc, though you lose your comms at what could potentially be a very poor moment, and then not get them back for the rest of the dive. Those microphones flood, yes I know there not supposed to but they do. And the vision is poor. You do get used to it, but really it is very poor. So the drager alternative initially looks very good. Much nicer mask, you actually see what you went there to see, but what about bailout? P port adapted reg in the side, looks pretty bulky to me, and swapping it doesnt look like an ideal activity either. A BOV such as the pelagan one looks great, but is there a way to switch gases? How are the people who use this mask managing their bailout? I guess you could take a few sanity breaths from a bov then remove mask but this is not acceptable in my opinion and one of my aims is to maintain a comms link. Is there some sort of LP hose connector that you could use from each gas (potentially a different mix or just more of the same) that you could plug in to the BOV and carry on breathing? Would be very interested to hear if someone has done this or if there are better alternatives. hugh
(Online)

31st May 2007, 13:51	#4 (permalink)
colinicky Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: uk Posts: 667	Re: panorama bailout with different gases? The other option could be the AP BOV "when" it is released ,was told at the dive show that it can be fed from either side or BOTH sides obviously using shut of valves to isolate. __________________ Colin I trust my rebreather completely , I just don't trust the user onwards & downwards
(Offline)

31st May 2007, 18:49	#5 (permalink)
HMP Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Plymouth, U.K. Posts: 102	Re: panorama bailout with different gases? Hi Andy Sounds like you have the solution. Do you have any pictures of the parts or part numbers so that I could follow it up? Also, Andy, I forget, which way does the gas pass on your BOV, I dive a MK15.5 so oxygenated gas is coming over my right shoulder, the opposite way to an Inspiration. As for APD they were going to have a nice link up to the Drager with comms but it never happened. Oh well, will wait with interest for what they come up with, with regards a BOV. All the best Hugh
(Offline)

31st May 2007, 19:53	#6 (permalink)
Rebreatherlab RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Classic Kiss Pelagian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thailand Posts: 202	Re: panorama bailout with different gases? Hi Hugh, I dont have any Swagelock parts numbers yet as I have not sourced the bits myself. After a quick browse it would appear as the Swagelock QC6 would need one extra adapter to work with standard 1/4" LP hose. This is not so good as too many adapters kills flex and ads failure points. Golem has a solution with only one adapter from 9/16 to nipple and the reciprocal adapts to your LP hose. The pair is priced a bit less than 100 USD. Have a look at their web site. I am not sure why it would matter from which side of the loop you inhale. the main thing is from where you want to connect the BOV. The Pelagian Bov uses left hand hose connect as DIL is carried on the left and it works very well with the Pelagian tiop mounted 1st stages. Also I have this silly idea that all lean gas should go on the left. Anyway, you can Install the BOV section to the DSV for right hand connection as the interface is symmetrical. Then you get the bubbles going our on the front instead of the rear side. I could also machine a custom BOV body to take the hose from right at no extra cost. If enough people prefer this I will simply stock both versions. Hope this helps! Andy
(Online)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode