Ffm

aquaxel · 26th July 2005, 10:33

hi folks,

there is some talk around about ffm. some pro some contra.

it would be nice to hear some opinons why or why not to use ffm / what advantages / disadvantages, etc...

for the ones who use ffm - which one is the one to use?

mayb we find a number of models and make a poll?

Drmike · 26th July 2005, 11:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by aquaxel)

hi folks,

there is some talk around about ffm. some pro some contra.

it would be nice to hear some opinons why or why not to use ffm / what advantages / disadvantages, etc...

for the ones who use ffm - which one is the one to use?

mayb we find a number of models and make a poll?

I cant see any disadvantages wih the replacable pod style FFMs like my Kirby Morgan KM48 supermask - and plenty of advantages - like never being able to drown!

Mdemon · 26th July 2005, 15:09

Issues are CO2 retention and the simultaneous loss of vision and gas (in normal FFM). Also, and as I am finding, trauma to the ear-drum if you can't equalise properly. The Apex has external levers for this. Most other FFMs seem to have a block you push your nose against or an open rubber bit like normal masks. You might want to investigate the half-mask hybrids like the ScubaPro FFM which keep the nose and eyes separate. I got one and put it back on eBay the next day... Some people like them though.

Advantages are warm face, ability to fit comms, protection from dirty environment and the ability to keep an unconscious diver from drowning.

I have an Interspiro AGA Mk1 with a conversion to fit it to a Bob Howell DSV and then onto my Inspiration. The conversion was done for me by Gill Knott of Saga Ventures LLC. ( sagaventures@att.net).

I have also fitted a military S10 respirator to a Draeger BA set for OC deco and it works very well actually. Unlike the AGA though, it has slightly rounded separate lenses which magnifies everything a bit. This is useful for high PO2 deco where tox might be an issue. Not really necessary now I have the SSBOD.

Ironically, the S10 fits much better than the AGA...

Narked@90 has an FFM, maybe he will add to your list too?

ROB DAVIE · 26th July 2005, 16:05

Simon,

I have the Widolf DR600 made by Divematics USA. I ordered it with the Apeks TX-100 second stage fitted to the DSV. (You can order any second stage you prefer.)

It is supremely comfortable. Due to it's foam-filled edge-seal it fits more comfortably than any other FFM on the market.

Like any good commercial mask, it uses the nose-block for equalization. These devices work well, once they are adjusted for your face. In the Widolf there are two foam plugs that can be adjusted to various settings.

As I say, this is a commercial mask, so the build quality is extremely high. Try it. You'll like it!

Drmike · 26th July 2005, 16:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

Issues are CO2 retention and the simultaneous loss of vision and gas (in normal FFM). Also, and as I am finding, trauma to the ear-drum if you can't equalise properly.

None of which you get with the Kirby morgan KM48 supermask, and of course equalising it is no different to a normal scuba mask.

For RBs I really dont see why everybody isnt using them (KM48) - I really dont see the downside. The mask with OC pod is reasonably cheap and you can use it with any oc/cc DSV that will fit the OC pod - ie any.

Some pics of it in use here http://drmike.smugmug.com/gallery/660326/2/28420665

Note the mouthbite (in the pod thats seperate from nasal cavity) so no CO2 issues, and the normal looking top face mask that allows normal equalising through nose pinching. You can flood one without effecting the other, and bail to OC without taking off the mask by removing only the pod

I also used this on my inspiration by fitting the original ybod mouthpiece into the OC pod - worked great. You could easily put a KISS oc/cc dsv in it.

miker · 26th July 2005, 17:03

I also have a KM awesome mask...making the jump to ouroboros so will probably have to shed the kirby unless I can get adapters made, little skeered of doing things like that though...

aquaxel · 26th July 2005, 17:08

i got in contact with olivier isler who made a helmet. only 1. he wasnt able to make me one but he is looking for companies which mite produce it commercially.

anybody interrested?

Mdemon · 26th July 2005, 17:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

None of which you get with the Kirby morgan KM48 supermask, and of course equalising it is no different to a normal scuba mask..

I knew you'd say that!

I actually put "except the Kirby... etc" but the post timed out and I had to re-do it....

Stuart, can you increase the default setting for this please? I can't see a downside to it - on SWM I think you get 3200 seconds to post before it eats it!

***schford*** · 26th July 2005, 17:43

Sure let me go look it up.....unless you can tell me what the setting is called off the top of your head.

Stuart

ROB DAVIE · 26th July 2005, 17:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by aquaxel)

i got in contact with olivier isler who made a helmet. only 1. he wasnt able to make me one but he is looking for companies which mite produce it commercially.

anybody interrested?

I saw that helmet, and met Olivier at DEMA. I have to say that it is without a doubt it is the SEXIEST DIVE HELMET that I have EVER seen!

26th July 2005, 10:33	#1 (permalink)
aquaxel aquanaut Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: cyprus Posts: 530	Ffm hi folks, there is some talk around about ffm. some pro some contra. it would be nice to hear some opinons why or why not to use ffm / what advantages / disadvantages, etc... for the ones who use ffm - which one is the one to use? mayb we find a number of models and make a poll? __________________ rgds aquaxel www.aquatec-innerspace.com
(Offline)

26th July 2005, 11:51	#2 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,300	Quote: (Originally Posted by aquaxel) hi folks, there is some talk around about ffm. some pro some contra. it would be nice to hear some opinons why or why not to use ffm / what advantages / disadvantages, etc... for the ones who use ffm - which one is the one to use? mayb we find a number of models and make a poll? I cant see any disadvantages wih the replacable pod style FFMs like my Kirby Morgan KM48 supermask - and plenty of advantages - like never being able to drown! __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
(Offline)

26th July 2005, 15:09	#3 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,931	Issues are CO2 retention and the simultaneous loss of vision and gas (in normal FFM). Also, and as I am finding, trauma to the ear-drum if you can't equalise properly. The Apex has external levers for this. Most other FFMs seem to have a block you push your nose against or an open rubber bit like normal masks. You might want to investigate the half-mask hybrids like the ScubaPro FFM which keep the nose and eyes separate. I got one and put it back on eBay the next day... Some people like them though. Advantages are warm face, ability to fit comms, protection from dirty environment and the ability to keep an unconscious diver from drowning. I have an Interspiro AGA Mk1 with a conversion to fit it to a Bob Howell DSV and then onto my Inspiration. The conversion was done for me by Gill Knott of Saga Ventures LLC. ( sagaventures@att.net). I have also fitted a military S10 respirator to a Draeger BA set for OC deco and it works very well actually. Unlike the AGA though, it has slightly rounded separate lenses which magnifies everything a bit. This is useful for high PO2 deco where tox might be an issue. Not really necessary now I have the SSBOD. Ironically, the S10 fits much better than the AGA... Narked@90 has an FFM, maybe he will add to your list too? __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

26th July 2005, 16:45	#5 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,300	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) Issues are CO2 retention and the simultaneous loss of vision and gas (in normal FFM). Also, and as I am finding, trauma to the ear-drum if you can't equalise properly. None of which you get with the Kirby morgan KM48 supermask, and of course equalising it is no different to a normal scuba mask. For RBs I really dont see why everybody isnt using them (KM48) - I really dont see the downside. The mask with OC pod is reasonably cheap and you can use it with any oc/cc DSV that will fit the OC pod - ie any. Some pics of it in use here http://drmike.smugmug.com/gallery/660326/2/28420665 Note the mouthbite (in the pod thats seperate from nasal cavity) so no CO2 issues, and the normal looking top face mask that allows normal equalising through nose pinching. You can flood one without effecting the other, and bail to OC without taking off the mask by removing only the pod I also used this on my inspiration by fitting the original ybod mouthpiece into the OC pod - worked great. You could easily put a KISS oc/cc dsv in it. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
(Offline)

26th July 2005, 17:03	#6 (permalink)
miker New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: usa, fl Posts: 15	I also have a KM awesome mask...making the jump to ouroboros so will probably have to shed the kirby unless I can get adapters made, little skeered of doing things like that though...
(Offline)

26th July 2005, 17:36	#8 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,931	Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) None of which you get with the Kirby morgan KM48 supermask, and of course equalising it is no different to a normal scuba mask.. I knew you'd say that! I actually put "except the Kirby... etc" but the post timed out and I had to re-do it.... Stuart, can you increase the default setting for this please? I can't see a downside to it - on SWM I think you get 3200 seconds to post before it eats it! __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

26th July 2005, 17:43	#9 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,687	Sure let me go look it up.....unless you can tell me what the setting is called off the top of your head. Stuart
(Offline)

26th July 2005, 17:48	#10 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Quote: (Originally Posted by aquaxel) i got in contact with olivier isler who made a helmet. only 1. he wasnt able to make me one but he is looking for companies which mite produce it commercially. anybody interrested? I saw that helmet, and met Olivier at DEMA. I have to say that it is without a doubt it is the SEXIEST DIVE HELMET that I have EVER seen! __________________ [SIZE=2]"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving [U]WHEN PIGS FLY[/U]!!"--GI3[/SIZE]
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode