Patent Foramen Ovale

pchanning · 21st September 2006, 16:32

I have just found out that I am one of the 30% of the population that have a PFO. I sufferred 'significant neurological DCS' some 3 months ago (in short, properly f****d up) and the wondering/ lack of a decent explanation has been unsettling. Strange, I am actually quite relieved.

What I really want to say is this: after decompression dives not only should one refrain from straining with equipment and generally take it easy, one should also not sneeze, cough or even strain on the loo - all these things increase thorassic pressure and can manifest a neuro bend if one has a PFO (which makes perfect sense, but eluded me until too late). Seriously, I suffered mine due to coughing, albeit violently, and it manifest in about 3 minutes - then I hit the floor!

I was surprised that the PFO did not reveal itself some time ago, but surprisingly this is not uncommon.

Incidentally, I am due to be assessed at DDRC (Diving Deseases Research Centre) next week, which should be interesting (a friend of mine has recently been given a 10m depth limit due to the presence of a PFO). So it seems I am going to look rather overdressed in 10m of water - with all the snorkellers.

WORTHY PLUG: I found the new Edition of Deeper into Diving (John Lippmann and Dr. Simon Mitchell - whom we are very lucky to have on this board) to be a very useful and also comforting resource. Thanks to you both for all the hard work. Go an buy a copy if you don't have one already, it is simply excellent with a wealth of up to date information - the likes of which are better to learn, rather than glean from experience.

Take it easy - and no running, lifting, farting, sneezing or coughing.

Cheers
Paul Channing

louisrankin · 21st September 2006, 16:55

At least you now know what caused the bend, my friend carried on diving with his PFO until he had the operation. He used to have skin bends after nearly every dive. You might be able to jump the NHS waiting list if you pay privately to see a consultant for the first consult he will then add you to his NHS list. Ask the Diving Doc I am sure he/she will be able to recommend a consultant. Anyway good luck and fingers crossed it may be 30m depth limit and not 10m (English sense of humour)

Louis

Mixaddict · 21st September 2006, 17:02

Dear Paul,

Good luck with your assesment! I think all of us that are involved in this type of "crazy maniac diving" have wondered at one point or another if we shouldn't get checked out for PFO. On one level, I think to myself, is this something that I should look into as a preventive matter, and on the other hand I have a little voice in the back of my head which says: "Don't ask because you may not like the answer!"

I think about this quite often. How would I respond if I was told that I was no longer fit to do a certain type of diving? For those of us who are gung-ho about this stuff, and it has become a very meaningful part of our lives, this can potentially become a huge internal conflict.

I hope you have a positive result from your assesment and good luck with your future dives.

Regards,
Randy

Deepwreck · 21st September 2006, 17:41

I had my heart checked after my Bend, and found a perfect heart with no PFO or anything else wrong. That makes me happy, but I don't think I would have had the check if I hadn't gotton Bent.

Mdemon · 21st September 2006, 19:21

Quote:

Go an buy a copy if you don't have one already

Bollocks - I'm going to borrow yours you tight git. You still owe me for the boat you got bent on - how's that for a memory? Brain lesions? PAH!

Glad you found out the cause. Nothing worse than not knowing why. So, can you go deeper if you don't cough? I'll get you some Benylin...

I got bent sideways, backwards and upside down and they didn't even suggest PFO checking. I guess I must be unbendable as long as my suit doesn't flood...

By the way, how's the swelling? [Innocent /on

]

mattmexico · 21st September 2006, 19:38

yo

.... friend of mine got twisted up some years ago, PFO they said and diagnozed, he did the mushroom umbrella thing inside the ticker, is diving ever sincve ... and deep as well ....

.. thought about what you wanna do about it ?.

Matt

Mary · 21st September 2006, 20:12

Hi Paul,

Glad to hear you've had the test now, I guess in someways it's reassuring to know what the cause of your bend was and guess that you are now going to get it fixed.

Hope the "swelling" has subsided and look foward to seeing you as a very overdressed snorkler in the meantime (come dive pendennis point it's only 8m max plus remains of submarines!)

You aiming for one of those "I'm unbendable letters"?

ps you around the weekend of 30th Sept /1st October?

quinnw · 21st September 2006, 22:54

PFOs a subject close to my heart J

Last year I decided to go Rebreather and Trimix. Seen several nasty bend incidents, albeit second hand (people in my club), which were attributed to PFOs. Thought about it, and got tested. Yep I had a PFO. Closed in February. Back diving no depth limit.

The interesting thing is the restriction when you are diagnosed with a PFO. Never heard 10 meters. There were 3 of us with PFOs. One no restriction but advised not to go deep (no definition as to deep), one to 15 meters and one to 35 meters but first dive of the day only and on very very conservative tables.

Might want to ask DDRC how big they think the PFO is. Bubble test will give you a good indication. Mine was about 12 bubbles. Took a 25mm bung on one side and a 15mm bung on the other.

If you want more information, let me know. I can recommend a very good surgeon in Bristol…

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 22nd September 2006, 04:58

Does anyone have a link to a video of the procedure. I understand the concept. However, I would like to know more about the specifics.

Also, what is the time after the procedure until the diver can return to diving?

quinnw · 22nd September 2006, 06:45

Typically 3 months, but only after another bubble test proves the operation was successful. I know one poor diver who had to have his PFO closed 3 times before they got it right…

On that note, apparently a lot of places don’t measure the whole before they proceed. The advise I have learnt is to get it measured, increases your chances of a successful operation.

21st September 2006, 16:32	#1 (permalink)
pchanning PFO free :) Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: fixed! Posts: 454	Patent Foramen Ovale I have just found out that I am one of the 30% of the population that have a PFO. I sufferred 'significant neurological DCS' some 3 months ago (in short, properly f**d up) and the wondering/ lack of a decent explanation has been unsettling. Strange, I am actually quite relieved. What I really want to say is this: after decompression dives not only should one refrain from straining with equipment and generally take it easy, one should also not sneeze, cough or even strain on the loo - all these things increase thorassic pressure and can manifest a neuro bend if one has a PFO (which makes perfect sense, but eluded me until too late). Seriously, I suffered mine due to coughing, albeit violently, and it manifest in about 3 minutes - then I hit the floor! I was surprised that the PFO did not reveal itself some time ago, but surprisingly this is not uncommon. Incidentally, I am due to be assessed at DDRC (Diving Deseases Research Centre) next week, which should be interesting (a friend of mine has recently been given a 10m depth limit due to the presence of a PFO). So it seems I am going to look rather overdressed in 10m of water - with all the snorkellers. WORTHY PLUG: I found the new Edition of Deeper into Diving** (John Lippmann and Dr. Simon Mitchell - whom we are very lucky to have on this board) to be a very useful and also comforting resource. Thanks to you both for all the hard work. Go an buy a copy if you don't have one already, it is simply excellent with a wealth of up to date information - the likes of which are better to learn, rather than glean from experience. Take it easy - and no running, lifting, farting, sneezing or coughing. Cheers Paul Channing __________________ Cheers Paul The key to enlightenment... is survival. Last edited by pchanning : 21st September 2006 at 16:41. Reason: clarity
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21st September 2006, 16:55	#2 (permalink)
louisrankin Póg mo thóin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cambridge Posts: 301	Re: Patent Foramen Ovale At least you now know what caused the bend, my friend carried on diving with his PFO until he had the operation. He used to have skin bends after nearly every dive. You might be able to jump the NHS waiting list if you pay privately to see a consultant for the first consult he will then add you to his NHS list. Ask the Diving Doc I am sure he/she will be able to recommend a consultant. Anyway good luck and fingers crossed it may be 30m depth limit and not 10m (English sense of humour) Louis
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21st September 2006, 17:02	#3 (permalink)
Mixaddict Always Learning! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Draper, Utah USA Posts: 426	Re: Patent Foramen Ovale Dear Paul, Good luck with your assesment! I think all of us that are involved in this type of "crazy maniac diving" have wondered at one point or another if we shouldn't get checked out for PFO. On one level, I think to myself, is this something that I should look into as a preventive matter, and on the other hand I have a little voice in the back of my head which says: "Don't ask because you may not like the answer!" I think about this quite often. How would I respond if I was told that I was no longer fit to do a certain type of diving? For those of us who are gung-ho about this stuff, and it has become a very meaningful part of our lives, this can potentially become a huge internal conflict. I hope you have a positive result from your assesment and good luck with your future dives. Regards, Randy __________________ Randy Thornton (MixAddict) Inspiration, Evolution,Hammerhead & Sentinel CCR Instructor
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21st September 2006, 17:41	#4 (permalink)
Deepwreck Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 112	Re: Patent Foramen Ovale I had my heart checked after my Bend, and found a perfect heart with no PFO or anything else wrong. That makes me happy, but I don't think I would have had the check if I hadn't gotton Bent. __________________ OC is for Bailout! Go Big, then go home.
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21st September 2006, 19:21	#5 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,888	Re: Patent Foramen Ovale Quote: Go an buy a copy if you don't have one already Bollocks - I'm going to borrow yours you tight git. You still owe me for the boat you got bent on - how's that for a memory? Brain lesions? PAH! Glad you found out the cause. Nothing worse than not knowing why. So, can you go deeper if you don't cough? I'll get you some Benylin... I got bent sideways, backwards and upside down and they didn't even suggest PFO checking. I guess I must be unbendable as long as my suit doesn't flood... By the way, how's the swelling? [Innocent /on ] __________________ www.southwestmafia.com It's as easy as abc; a) "Carry adequate bailout" b) "If in doubt, bail out" c) "Always know your PO2" If you find that hard, stick to crochet. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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21st September 2006, 19:38	#6 (permalink)
mattmexico Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Optima RB80 / Clone Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss RB80 / Clone Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Mexico, Q.Roo, Playa del Carmen Posts: 752	Re: Patent Foramen Ovale yo .... friend of mine got twisted up some years ago, PFO they said and diagnozed, he did the mushroom umbrella thing inside the ticker, is diving ever sincve ... and deep as well .... .. thought about what you wanna do about it ?. Matt __________________ N 20' 37.617' W 87' 04.693' www.andreaswmatthes.com
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21st September 2006, 20:12	#7 (permalink)
Mary New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The sunny south west. UK Posts: 75	Re: Patent Foramen Ovale Hi Paul, Glad to hear you've had the test now, I guess in someways it's reassuring to know what the cause of your bend was and guess that you are now going to get it fixed. Hope the "swelling" has subsided and look foward to seeing you as a very overdressed snorkler in the meantime (come dive pendennis point it's only 8m max plus remains of submarines!) You aiming for one of those "I'm unbendable letters"? ps you around the weekend of 30th Sept /1st October?
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21st September 2006, 22:54	#8 (permalink)
quinnw New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Portishead Posts: 38	Re: Patent Foramen Ovale PFOs a subject close to my heart J Last year I decided to go Rebreather and Trimix. Seen several nasty bend incidents, albeit second hand (people in my club), which were attributed to PFOs. Thought about it, and got tested. Yep I had a PFO. Closed in February. Back diving no depth limit. The interesting thing is the restriction when you are diagnosed with a PFO. Never heard 10 meters. There were 3 of us with PFOs. One no restriction but advised not to go deep (no definition as to deep), one to 15 meters and one to 35 meters but first dive of the day only and on very very conservative tables. Might want to ask DDRC how big they think the PFO is. Bubble test will give you a good indication. Mine was about 12 bubbles. Took a 25mm bung on one side and a 15mm bung on the other. If you want more information, let me know. I can recommend a very good surgeon in Bristol…
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22nd September 2006, 04:58	#9 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,937	Re: Patent Foramen Ovale Does anyone have a link to a video of the procedure. I understand the concept. However, I would like to know more about the specifics. Also, what is the time after the procedure until the diver can return to diving? __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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22nd September 2006, 06:45	#10 (permalink)
quinnw New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Portishead Posts: 38	Re: Patent Foramen Ovale Typically 3 months, but only after another bubble test proves the operation was successful. I know one poor diver who had to have his PFO closed 3 times before they got it right… On that note, apparently a lot of places don’t measure the whole before they proceed. The advise I have learnt is to get it measured, increases your chances of a successful operation.
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