Patent Foramen Ovale

db8us

Thanks for the great discussion !
I am wondering why basic priciples, such as
-not hauling gear directly after a dive
-not climbing up a boat-ladder with heavy doubles
-no strenous action
etc
are not taught by all organisation.
In fact, some dudes of PSA in Germany questioned that PFO is the cause of DCS.
Why are the basics not taught in technical diving ?????

For me this is basic stuff, also that a TEE should be done if one wants to got the technical route...

What are the opionions of the instructors /docs here ?
Michael

graham_hk

I just had a TEE - all clear

I did some research and talked (via a friend) with the professor who literally wrote the book on cardiology in NY. He said that to show, with reasonable sureness, a PFO you need to do atleast 8 bubble runs with significant straining. I got my doc to do 10...

Its an uncomfortable test but (even though I have done numerous dives 1500 + down to 100m+ with upto 2.5h runtimes) I wanted to be sure to take my diving to the next level and due to recent increased family commitments. For me diving with a PFO is like Russian Roulette - you do have better than 1/6 odds though (you have to have a bubble going past the shunt at the time of straining which IMHO is why there is no "statistical" problem diving with a PFO). If the data was looked at a bit more closely I believe that would not be the case.

Graham

blingbreather

I am in the process of doing one within the next few weeks . In the event you do have a PFO, how soon after the "repair" job can you dive again. I was told 1-3 months but not sure.

-Ali

bendomatic

I was told no lifting for two weeks (because i had my femoral vein and both femoral arteries opened), no diving until after 3 month follow up to check that the device is doing its job properly. The other thing to keep in mind is that when on medications that inhibit platelet activity, bruising can be an issue, depending on what sort of diving conditions and boat.

__________________
why deal with idiots on the net when you have to spend all day dealing with them at work.

Mdemon

Is it painful?

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www.southwestmafia.com

It's as easy as abc;

a) "Carry adequate bailout"

b) "If in doubt, bail out"

c) "Always know your PO2"

If you find that hard, stick to crochet.

"Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"

Padowan

Interesting idea this, a pro-active PFO screen.

I have been "getting away with" the diving I've been doing with no knowledge of whether I have a PFO or not. I've experimented with different dive profiles and found ones that make me feel great afterwards, and I minimise or eliminate all possible exertion for the few hours immediately after the dive. I've never been more than subclinical as far as I am aware, and have never needed recompression.

Having seen Pauls incident, and following the discussion about his PFO, I wonder if it is a good thing to get looked into. If I got tested and a PFO was found, I guess I should get it repaired, but then after the repair, what sort of precautions do you need to take in getting back into things? Can you get straight back into the diving you were doing before, or do you need to build up your diving, and start working out your most suitable deco schedules and procedures again? (remember this is for someone getting a pro-active PFO repair with no history of DCS)

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Janos

Simon,

I think the WKPP screen their divers as a matter of course for PFOs. IF you want a PFO check, then there's a guy in Bristol who eill do one for £300. Have a look on the BSAC forums by a post from Hellvet.

Janos

__________________
You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves
www.hellfins.com/shed

gtzavelas

I can't say painful but it is definitely extremely unpleasant. They have to stick dow your throat a very long and thick pipe…

PeteS

That's not the way I had mine done.

IIRC, Bubble Contrast Echo Cardiogram. Works very well. Nothing down your throat at all.

__________________
Pete S.

http://www.steggle.co.nz

Every silver lining has a cloud

gtzavelas

Yes, thats an other alternative. (much nicer!)
But I am afraid (at least back in 2004 when I did my research) that the TEE is the most accurate and reliable method...
things change very fast thought so I am not a doctor anyway so cant be really sure...

Anyone has any recent info/study comparing the methods?