No Dema infos , yet

AD_ward9 · 19th November 2006, 12:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by SINUS)

Thanks for your pictures. May I ask,what are the Two long silver cylindrical tubes (with Allen head) attached to the exterior of the scrubber head for ?

Hi Wei Lan,
They contain the batteries and ambient pressure sensors.

We use Lithium Ion Polymer Gel batteries, and found some after a lot of (destructive) testing which can stand being in helium and then suddenly depressurised, but in the safety review the conclusion was the tests are simply a sample, and there is no guarantee that all batteries of that model can withstand pressurisation. The decision was made therefore to keep them at 1 atmosphere in a vessel that cannot leak noxious products into the loop under any circumstances.

The tubes are 1.5mm thick stainless steel, tested to 1400msw, and more importantly, withstand the pressure caused if a battery is shorted and catches fire: these batteries pack a lot of energy in a small space.

We keep the ambient pressure sensors in the tubes also to reduce the risk of helium causes the pressure sensors to drift, and we also use the two tubes as a wet contact.

Alex

SINUS · 19th November 2006, 12:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

They contain the batteries and ambient pressure sensors.

Alex

Roger that chum,

From your pictures, I see your overall Rebreather design are very well engineered in many ways as well as unique. And not to mention must have cost you a nuke to build every things from scratch (tooling,moulding....etc).

May I know what would be the estimated cost per-unit when released into the market?.

Thanks again.

Cheers

Wei Lan

AD_ward9 · 19th November 2006, 18:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by SINUS)

Roger that chum,

From your pictures, I see your overall Rebreather design are very well engineered in many ways as well as unique. And not to mention must have cost you a nuke to build every things from scratch (tooling,moulding....etc).

May I know what would be the estimated cost per-unit when released into the market?.

Thanks again.

Cheers

Wei Lan

Pricing is designed to be extremely competitive and accessible, but our clients would have to issue the actual numbers when they are ready: we only provide the technology/design to companies marketing and supporting the equipment.

It is very expensive to do things right. No doubt about that. All of the sports companies want things to be exclusive, so to avoid the technology becoming unique to any one rebreather manufacturer, the development is supported by millions of dollars of DL's management's own money, and five oil companies, lead by Technip (now the world's largest commercial dive company, based on last year's orders). Statoil and Nork Hydro in particular show an extremely public spirited attitude to safety, ignoring commercial competitive issues, in the interests of seeing this technology widely availble for commercial divers and to SCUBA divers.

The commercial dive system shown on the stand and in the gallery, is now forming a crucial role in bringing these safety systems to all divers. We should applaude Statoil and Norsk Hydro, as well as Technip, for leading the way in this. These are amongst the most safety conscious companies in the world.

Over the next year, we have very large expenditures in hard tooling, in parallel with the continued test and certification processes. The cost of development and tooling is so high, it makes sense to be something the industry uses rather than every company trying to produce their own. If other companies with the necessary infrastructure want to develop a better system I am all for that. The problem at the moment though is development of most rebreather controllers is without any proper infrastructure, i.e. garage or very small scale operations. This is what is holding us all back, and has resulted in the high accident rate for rebreather divers, IMHO.

Alex

SINUS · 19th November 2006, 22:25

Alex,

Thanks for the input and enlightening me on your sleek unit.

Cheers

Wei Lan

2stoned · 20th November 2006, 12:53

AD_ward9 (Alex)

I am a big fan of your project!

Regarding the Lithium Ion batteries...
You might want to take a closer look at Valence Technology batteries.
Valence - About Saphion
This is a Lithium Ion battery that does not burn.

3,2Volt 1400mA http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/IFR18650e.pdf

3,2Volt 1100mA http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/Saphion%20Power%20Cell%20DS%20Jan06.pdf

Mdemon · 20th November 2006, 17:15

So, DEMA anyone?

Barrie Law · 20th November 2006, 18:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

So, DEMA anyone?

Hi John,

Have a look in the 'Gallery' later this evening

Regards

Faceless · 21st November 2006, 16:55

A really BIG thanks for your work, guys, I feel nearly like i'm standing at the booth next to you.

Definitely will purchase DVD ( for a reasonable price of course)

AD_ward9 · 21st November 2006, 23:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by 2stoned)

Regarding the Lithium Ion batteries...
You might want to take a closer look at Valence Technology batteries.
Valence - About Saphion
This is a Lithium Ion battery that does not burn.

3,2Volt 1400mA http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/IFR18650e.pdf

3,2Volt 1100mA http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/Saphion%20Power%20Cell%20DS%20Jan06.pdf

Thanks for your complements.
We missed these batteries. We will get some in and test them. I will post the results in due course.

Cheers

Alex

Mdemon · 22nd November 2006, 07:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law)

Hi John,

Have a look in the 'Gallery' later this evening

Regards

There goes my evening...

19th November 2006, 12:04	#31 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: No Dema infos , yet Quote: (Originally Posted by SINUS) Thanks for your pictures. May I ask,what are the Two long silver cylindrical tubes (with Allen head) attached to the exterior of the scrubber head for ? Hi Wei Lan, They contain the batteries and ambient pressure sensors. We use Lithium Ion Polymer Gel batteries, and found some after a lot of (destructive) testing which can stand being in helium and then suddenly depressurised, but in the safety review the conclusion was the tests are simply a sample, and there is no guarantee that all batteries of that model can withstand pressurisation. The decision was made therefore to keep them at 1 atmosphere in a vessel that cannot leak noxious products into the loop under any circumstances. The tubes are 1.5mm thick stainless steel, tested to 1400msw, and more importantly, withstand the pressure caused if a battery is shorted and catches fire: these batteries pack a lot of energy in a small space. We keep the ambient pressure sensors in the tubes also to reduce the risk of helium causes the pressure sensors to drift, and we also use the two tubes as a wet contact. Alex
(Offline)

19th November 2006, 12:29	#32 (permalink)
SINUS Rebreather Aficionado Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: 137km from equator Posts: 199	Re: No Dema infos , yet Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) They contain the batteries and ambient pressure sensors. Alex Roger that chum, From your pictures, I see your overall Rebreather design are very well engineered in many ways as well as unique. And not to mention must have cost you a nuke to build every things from scratch (tooling,moulding....etc). May I know what would be the estimated cost per-unit when released into the market?. Thanks again. Cheers Wei Lan __________________ "Silence Is Always Beautiful"
(Offline)

19th November 2006, 18:46	#33 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: No Dema infos , yet Quote: (Originally Posted by SINUS) Roger that chum, From your pictures, I see your overall Rebreather design are very well engineered in many ways as well as unique. And not to mention must have cost you a nuke to build every things from scratch (tooling,moulding....etc). May I know what would be the estimated cost per-unit when released into the market?. Thanks again. Cheers Wei Lan Pricing is designed to be extremely competitive and accessible, but our clients would have to issue the actual numbers when they are ready: we only provide the technology/design to companies marketing and supporting the equipment. It is very expensive to do things right. No doubt about that. All of the sports companies want things to be exclusive, so to avoid the technology becoming unique to any one rebreather manufacturer, the development is supported by millions of dollars of DL's management's own money, and five oil companies, lead by Technip (now the world's largest commercial dive company, based on last year's orders). Statoil and Nork Hydro in particular show an extremely public spirited attitude to safety, ignoring commercial competitive issues, in the interests of seeing this technology widely availble for commercial divers and to SCUBA divers. The commercial dive system shown on the stand and in the gallery, is now forming a crucial role in bringing these safety systems to all divers. We should applaude Statoil and Norsk Hydro, as well as Technip, for leading the way in this. These are amongst the most safety conscious companies in the world. Over the next year, we have very large expenditures in hard tooling, in parallel with the continued test and certification processes. The cost of development and tooling is so high, it makes sense to be something the industry uses rather than every company trying to produce their own. If other companies with the necessary infrastructure want to develop a better system I am all for that. The problem at the moment though is development of most rebreather controllers is without any proper infrastructure, i.e. garage or very small scale operations. This is what is holding us all back, and has resulted in the high accident rate for rebreather divers, IMHO. Alex
(Offline)

19th November 2006, 22:25	#34 (permalink)
SINUS Rebreather Aficionado Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: 137km from equator Posts: 199	Re: No Dema infos , yet Alex, Thanks for the input and enlightening me on your sleek unit. Cheers Wei Lan __________________ "Silence Is Always Beautiful"
(Offline)

20th November 2006, 12:53	#35 (permalink)
2stoned Such is my point of view Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 87	Re: No Dema infos , yet AD_ward9 (Alex) I am a big fan of your project! Regarding the Lithium Ion batteries... You might want to take a closer look at Valence Technology batteries. Valence - About Saphion This is a Lithium Ion battery that does not burn. 3,2Volt 1400mA http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/IFR18650e.pdf 3,2Volt 1100mA http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/Saphion%20Power%20Cell%20DS%20Jan06.pdf __________________ Sten. The only man that always had all his work done by Friday, was Robinson Crusoe! www.rebreatherworld.com - Is going down in silence - Staying longer in stealth and style - Diving first class, all the way! Last edited by 2stoned : 20th November 2006 at 13:01.
(Offline)

20th November 2006, 17:15	#36 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,904	Re: No Dema infos , yet So, DEMA anyone? __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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20th November 2006, 18:01	#37 (permalink)
Barrie Law RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 726	Re: No Dema infos , yet Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) So, DEMA anyone? Hi John, Have a look in the 'Gallery' later this evening Regards __________________ Barrie Law Rebreather World Store Supplying the Rebreather World Tel:US +19548403892 Fax:US+19543333792 Tel:EU+442071930496 Fax:EU+442077606344 Mobile+353876880628 Skype:barrielaw Email: barrie@rebreatherworldstore.com
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21st November 2006, 16:55	#38 (permalink)
Faceless alone lurking in wrecks Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Location: France, Montpellier Posts: 92	Re: No Dema infos , yet A really BIG thanks for your work, guys, I feel nearly like i'm standing at the booth next to you. Definitely will purchase DVD ( for a reasonable price of course) __________________ Peoples risk perception is almost always focused on the most dramatic rather than the most probable. (c) Gordon Smith
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21st November 2006, 23:51	#39 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: No Dema infos , yet Quote: (Originally Posted by 2stoned) Regarding the Lithium Ion batteries... You might want to take a closer look at Valence Technology batteries. Valence - About Saphion This is a Lithium Ion battery that does not burn. 3,2Volt 1400mA http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/IFR18650e.pdf 3,2Volt 1100mA http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/Saphion%20Power%20Cell%20DS%20Jan06.pdf Thanks for your complements. We missed these batteries. We will get some in and test them. I will post the results in due course. Cheers Alex
(Offline)

22nd November 2006, 07:11	#40 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,904	Re: No Dema infos , yet Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law) Hi John, Have a look in the 'Gallery' later this evening Regards There goes my evening... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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