Trimix diving, CCR or OC

***EBT*** · 2nd November 2006, 13:19

Do what ya like, people always do

But its probably worth looking at the experience base and most people who've done the courses/diving seem to be suggesting that you need a fair bit of experience of shit happening, before you try to experience shit happening at depth.

Some quotes spring to mind;

"After my first 10 hours on a rebreather, I was a real expert. Another 40 hours of dive time later, I considered myself a novice. When I had completed about 100 hours of rebreather diving, I realized I was only just a beginner" - Richard Pyle

"You dont know, what you dont know"

"Open circuit responses arent necessarily life supporting on a rebreather" - Martin Robson (a very prolific CCR diver and instructor)

"F*ck that for a game of soldiers, wheres the wine" - lizardland after a bailout

"Why does this drink taste funny, Im not putting ice in my drinks again" - Me, after watching lizardlands bailout earlier in the day

RichardGreen · 2nd November 2006, 13:20

To answer the question you ask based on the diving experience you describe I would do the dive.

Richard Green

Lord M · 2nd November 2006, 14:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan)

I would ask yourself the followng questions:
How confident are you at dealing with ANY problem that may occur, have you had to do any problem solving on the unit in anger? Yes and No
Do you know what your bailout strategy will be, and have you validated that it'll work, and be correct for the dives you're planning? Ran it on ProPlanner, and re-confirmed this as a 5 minute dive to the same depth on OC
Will this dive be similar (depth, duration and deco loading) to the dives you've done on OC trimix? Yes, confidently
Will you be diving with another diver who has knowledge of CCR buddy procedures, or preferably is on CCR themselves? Yes
Will you be diving the unit in a configuration that you have dived shallower (amount of additional kit carried)? Yes, I have tried it with 3 cylinders

If you can answer "Yes" to all these questions, then I'd be more confident doing the dive on CCR, if you have a "No" or two, then I'd seriously think about doing it on OC, and spend some time over the winter developing those skills.

I've run the dive for both OC and CCR, the CCR deco is 30 minutes more than my OC!!!

The only thing that I am considering is, I will be taking my camera, I might not be keeping such a keen eye on the handsets, that's why I was looking into HUD's.

Perhaps OC is best, if only for the reduced deco

and cheaper costs

, sorry my warped sense of humour I'm in the wrong place to start anything.

Mdemon · 2nd November 2006, 14:38

Ignoring your original question, if taking a camera I wouldn't take the Box at this stage - the damn thing (the video camera that is) is like a small child constantly after your attention, in my limited experience.

Or sack the camera.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lord M)

I've run the dive for both OC and CCR, the CCR deco is 30 minutes more than my OC!!!

The only thing that I am considering is, I will be taking my camera, I might not be keeping such a keen eye on the handsets, that's why I was looking into HUD's.

Perhaps OC is best, if only for the reduced deco

and cheaper costs

, sorry my warped sense of humour I'm in the wrong place to start anything.

Padowan · 2nd November 2006, 14:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

Ignoring your original question, if taking a camera I wouldn't take the Box at this stage - the damn thing (the video camera that is) is like a small child constantly after your attention, in my limited experience.

Or sack the camera.

I mirror this opinion. You're gonna have enough things to be monitoring on your first trimix dive that you most certainly don't want the additional task load, and more importantly distraction that I know a video camera will bring to the equation.

RobertSt · 2nd November 2006, 15:27

Diving (deep) trimix CC dosn't sound like a to bad idea, several divers have done and do so without the tx class on CC (and theres been those paying the price for doing so...)

Myself, quite a newbie, 70 hours or so, feel more comf. diving CC than OC (shallow and deep) since most time spend underwater the last year is CC. So I choose CC if I can (even deep)

But handling and shooting with a videocam usually demands a lot of your 'capacity'/attention. If you have done it a lot and have good routines of how to do stuff go on... If you haven't, deep isn't usually the best place to work out problems.

Rob

decoweenie · 2nd November 2006, 16:02

Read this thread...

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebre...-your-po2.html

Mark Chase · 2nd November 2006, 16:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lord M)

I'm not asking anyone for advice here, just personal experience.

I've only recently done my Mod1 on the box, I've been very comfortable with it and never had buoyancy problems. I've been trimix OC for a few years now and get several trimix dives in each year (maybe 20) as well as over 100 other dives. This weekend is looking very good for some wrecks we have been planning to dive for months, U325, UB65 and Ezra Weston.

The wrecks are all around 56-58m. I'm tempted to use the box. I have enough bailout cylinders for it

I also have twin 12's with the right mix in, they've been sitting there waiting for this dive.

I'm not going to ask anyone what to do. I just want to know, what would you do (have done)?

Please don't treat this as a 'don't do that' thread, as I'm more likely to do it to prove you wrong or not.

If I was 100% sure i could hold stops on a free ascent id go for it. Holding stops comfortably was the limiting factor in my transition to trimix on the unit.

Id carry loads of bailout and Id use it if I felt even slightly dodgey. I wouldent try and get clever and deal with it on loop.

On the other hand if you die your diving beyound your quals so you wont get a peny from life insurance.

EDIT: didnt notice the camera bit. Screw that M8 dont take the camera or do it OC.

ATB

Mark Chase

Ivon · 2nd November 2006, 16:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

If I was 100% sure i could hold stops on a free ascent id go for it.

Id carry loads of bailout and Id use it if I felt even slightly dodgey

On the other hand if you die your diving beyound your quals so you wont get a peny from life insurance.

ATB

Mark Chase

I know what your saying Mark but like he has stated he could hold a stop very early on, I don't think you can give people advice until you know how many hours they have, under 50 hours would just be plain stupid.

And to consider it with a camera is even more stupid in my opinion.

iani · 2nd November 2006, 16:55

I was in a similar situation, I did the dive and it went wrong, with hindsight it was too much too soon. TBH, as you feel the need to ask the question I'd suggest you probably should do this one on OC.

Ian

2nd November 2006, 13:19	#11 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,971	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC Do what ya like, people always do But its probably worth looking at the experience base and most people who've done the courses/diving seem to be suggesting that you need a fair bit of experience of shit happening, before you try to experience shit happening at depth. Some quotes spring to mind; "After my first 10 hours on a rebreather, I was a real expert. Another 40 hours of dive time later, I considered myself a novice. When I had completed about 100 hours of rebreather diving, I realized I was only just a beginner" - Richard Pyle "You dont know, what you dont know" "Open circuit responses arent necessarily life supporting on a rebreather" - Martin Robson (a very prolific CCR diver and instructor) "Fck that for a game of soldiers, wheres the wine" - lizardland after a bailout "Why does this drink taste funny, Im not putting ice in my drinks again" - Me, after watching lizardlands bailout earlier in the day __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!* Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers Last edited by EBT : 2nd November 2006 at 13:24.
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2nd November 2006, 13:20	#12 (permalink)
RichardGreen Internet Dive Guru Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 140	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC To answer the question you ask based on the diving experience you describe I would do the dive. Richard Green
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2nd November 2006, 14:31	#13 (permalink)
Lord M New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Cornwall. Posts: 58	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan) I would ask yourself the followng questions: How confident are you at dealing with ANY problem that may occur, have you had to do any problem solving on the unit in anger? Yes and No Do you know what your bailout strategy will be, and have you validated that it'll work, and be correct for the dives you're planning? Ran it on ProPlanner, and re-confirmed this as a 5 minute dive to the same depth on OC Will this dive be similar (depth, duration and deco loading) to the dives you've done on OC trimix? Yes, confidently Will you be diving with another diver who has knowledge of CCR buddy procedures, or preferably is on CCR themselves? Yes Will you be diving the unit in a configuration that you have dived shallower (amount of additional kit carried)? Yes, I have tried it with 3 cylinders If you can answer "Yes" to all these questions, then I'd be more confident doing the dive on CCR, if you have a "No" or two, then I'd seriously think about doing it on OC, and spend some time over the winter developing those skills. I've run the dive for both OC and CCR, the CCR deco is 30 minutes more than my OC!!! The only thing that I am considering is, I will be taking my camera, I might not be keeping such a keen eye on the handsets, that's why I was looking into HUD's. Perhaps OC is best, if only for the reduced deco and cheaper costs , sorry my warped sense of humour I'm in the wrong place to start anything.
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2nd November 2006, 14:38	#14 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,927	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC Ignoring your original question, if taking a camera I wouldn't take the Box at this stage - the damn thing (the video camera that is) is like a small child constantly after your attention, in my limited experience. Or sack the camera. Quote: (Originally Posted by Lord M) I've run the dive for both OC and CCR, the CCR deco is 30 minutes more than my OC!!! The only thing that I am considering is, I will be taking my camera, I might not be keeping such a keen eye on the handsets, that's why I was looking into HUD's. Perhaps OC is best, if only for the reduced deco and cheaper costs , sorry my warped sense of humour I'm in the wrong place to start anything. __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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2nd November 2006, 14:56	#15 (permalink)
Padowan Proper Boffin Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 518	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) Ignoring your original question, if taking a camera I wouldn't take the Box at this stage - the damn thing (the video camera that is) is like a small child constantly after your attention, in my limited experience. Or sack the camera. I mirror this opinion. You're gonna have enough things to be monitoring on your first trimix dive that you most certainly don't want the additional task load, and more importantly distraction that I know a video camera will bring to the equation. __________________ Padowan The future's bright, the future's Yellow .....for now padowan.net - Latest Video: Scapa Flow Rebreather Diving
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2nd November 2006, 15:27	#16 (permalink)
RobertSt New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 17	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC Diving (deep) trimix CC dosn't sound like a to bad idea, several divers have done and do so without the tx class on CC (and theres been those paying the price for doing so...) Myself, quite a newbie, 70 hours or so, feel more comf. diving CC than OC (shallow and deep) since most time spend underwater the last year is CC. So I choose CC if I can (even deep) But handling and shooting with a videocam usually demands a lot of your 'capacity'/attention. If you have done it a lot and have good routines of how to do stuff go on... If you haven't, deep isn't usually the best place to work out problems. Rob
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2nd November 2006, 16:02	#17 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC Read this thread... http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebre...-your-po2.html __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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2nd November 2006, 16:41	#18 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,700	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC Quote: (Originally Posted by Lord M) I'm not asking anyone for advice here, just personal experience. I've only recently done my Mod1 on the box, I've been very comfortable with it and never had buoyancy problems. I've been trimix OC for a few years now and get several trimix dives in each year (maybe 20) as well as over 100 other dives. This weekend is looking very good for some wrecks we have been planning to dive for months, U325, UB65 and Ezra Weston. The wrecks are all around 56-58m. I'm tempted to use the box. I have enough bailout cylinders for it I also have twin 12's with the right mix in, they've been sitting there waiting for this dive. I'm not going to ask anyone what to do. I just want to know, what would you do (have done)? Please don't treat this as a 'don't do that' thread, as I'm more likely to do it to prove you wrong or not. If I was 100% sure i could hold stops on a free ascent id go for it. Holding stops comfortably was the limiting factor in my transition to trimix on the unit. Id carry loads of bailout and Id use it if I felt even slightly dodgey. I wouldent try and get clever and deal with it on loop. On the other hand if you die your diving beyound your quals so you wont get a peny from life insurance. EDIT: didnt notice the camera bit. Screw that M8 dont take the camera or do it OC. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System Last edited by Mark Chase : 2nd November 2006 at 16:48.
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2nd November 2006, 16:48	#19 (permalink)
Ivon Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hull, East Yorkshire, England Posts: 318	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) If I was 100% sure i could hold stops on a free ascent id go for it. Id carry loads of bailout and Id use it if I felt even slightly dodgey On the other hand if you die your diving beyound your quals so you wont get a peny from life insurance. ATB Mark Chase I know what your saying Mark but like he has stated he could hold a stop very early on, I don't think you can give people advice until you know how many hours they have, under 50 hours would just be plain stupid. And to consider it with a camera is even more stupid in my opinion.
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2nd November 2006, 16:55	#20 (permalink)
iani Nefarious Activist Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Middlesex, UK Posts: 334	Re: Trimix diving, CCR or OC I was in a similar situation, I did the dive and it went wrong, with hindsight it was too much too soon. TBH, as you feel the need to ask the question I'd suggest you probably should do this one on OC. Ian
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