Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles

Ivon · 10th November 2006, 19:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawktah)

Yeah, I realize that, it just concerns me that you'd hand off your gas at 100 fsw and next thing you know you need it back because you have some kind of failure...I guess to me "handing it off" means its no longer a mandatory piece of equipment. I'm only AOW certified so this is a foreign concept. It not a stage its a bailout??? Please help me understand...

OK here you go, your in a wreck and have just had a pretty crappy silt out and you lose the line or entrance is blocked.
You look for a way out and the only way you can find is a bit of a squeeze and you have to remove your stage, pass it through first, get out and reattach it, now this way seem like a long shot but it has happened, plenty of times.
Doing all this when your weighted correctly is going to make it a whole lot easier.

Or

Your buddy has an electronics problem or they have a compromised loop, they can either go O/C or Semi closed, either way there using there dil/bailout, you would be surprised how quick you go through bailout with a CO2 problem, hell I was!
I sucked a 7ltr in no time, had I been into much more deco I would have had to use my Buddy's too and it would have been much easier for him to pass it off to me and me to carry it. It's much easier if there neutral Ali and not steel, I could go down, though not likely, but he could sure as hell go up.

The chance of you both having a problem at the same time is small, I always carry enough for me and have just bought larger tins so have more than enough for me and some spare for my buddy.

Hope that helps.

Dutchy · 10th November 2006, 20:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawktah)

Yeah, I realize that, it just concerns me that you'd hand off your gas at 100 fsw and next thing you know you need it back because you have some kind of failure...I guess to me "handing it off" means its no longer a mandatory piece of equipment. I'm only AOW certified so this is a foreign concept. It not a stage its a bailout??? Please help me understand...

I think you're grasped the concept perfectly

You help out your buddy and then you die

Seriously it's a matter of risk analysis. How often do problems occur? If you are not sure bring all the gas you need to get up yourself and insist on your buddy doing the same. For some dives (I'm not the expert here) its just not feasible and you can bring sufficient (suitable) gas for two on a party of four. And then again there are people that beleive they don't need anything at all.... And yes bringing a pony, a sling or a stage is all about bailout. If all goes right you don't need to breath from them at all.
On my dives I only bring 40 cuft compressed air. The pro's on this board have to bring multiple cylinders with different mixes. E.g. a lean bottom mix to travel up a lot. Then e.g. EAN50 and finally EAN80 or oxygen. Bringing all that gas and not needing it if all goes right. It's fun eh?

Dawktah · 10th November 2006, 21:24

Thanks!

I will need to customize my bailout gases to my diving. My current plan is to dive from my own personal rib with either my wife on OC or a buddy on OC. According to the Rebreather World World Map there is only one CCR diver within 35 miles and only 2 within 100 miles. So I ma planning on being a solo CCR diver.

From reading I will probably sling a small cylinder and hang a larger one on my shot line. Maybe, with funds, oxygen at 15ft.

This may change by the time I finish my course...

Thanks for all the help!

bobmaggi · 10th November 2006, 21:28

I'm right here across the lake from you - let's get together for a dive sometime! We dive all winter over here, we just bring a larger chainsaw on the colder days!

Bob

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawktah)

Thanks!

I will need to customize my bailout gases to my diving. My current plan is to dive from my own personal rib with either my wife on OC or a buddy on OC. According to the Rebreather World World Map there is only one CCR diver within 35 miles and only 2 within 100 miles. So I ma planning on being a solo CCR diver.

Ivon · 10th November 2006, 21:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by bobmaggi)

I'm right here across the lake from you - let's get together for a dive sometime! We dive all winter over here, we just bring a larger chainsaw on the colder days!

Bob

There you go, you have a buddy already

Dawktah · 10th November 2006, 23:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ivon)

There you go, you have a buddy already

Almost, I am moving to the Caribbean. I would assume living in the Caribbean you get a lot of people wanting to be your buddy!

The closest is 35 nautical, nearby island. Dolphin pilot ScubaVixen. We are in contact already. Not any buddy convo since I have to buy and get trained on a CCR.

Mark Chase · 13th November 2006, 20:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawktah)

O.K. dumb question, are tank boots, positive, negative or neutral? Never had to deal with one near water and not on a tank!

Also, is there a way to learn how to properly rig a bail/stage bottle without taking a course? I'd like to rig it before the course to save on task loading since I will have to take Advanced Nitrox in combination with CCR intro, MOD 1.

The 1st Stages are heavy and make the tank float nose down. If you took them off and left a bear tank it would float prety flat. The boots sink and are there purley to protect the tank when not in the water.

Weighting without the tanks alowes you to ditch them or breath them empty (at which point ali tanks will be VERY positivly boyent and steel will float but not much) and still hold a 6m stop.

ATB

Mark Chase

Dawktah · 30th November 2006, 21:16

Looks like I will be building my own gas blending and filling station. Since I am planning to get a compressor to fill to 3,500 psi with DIN, would I be better off getting steel cylinders? If this happens the deepest I will be is 100' So should be able to bail on a HP65? 16" x 7.25" diameter.

Gilles · 17th December 2006, 12:10

I'd recommend a pair of ali 80's side-mounted. It is good to have plenty of bail, and the side-mounts keep the 80's nicely streamlined and out of the way.

When carrying 1 bottom mix and 1 deco mix, a weight on the Tmx tank keeps trim nice and balanced.

Russ · 17th December 2006, 18:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by sabgia)

I'd recommend a pair of ali 80's side-mounted. It is good to have plenty of bail, and the side-mounts keep the 80's nicely streamlined and out of the way.

When carrying 1 bottom mix and 1 deco mix, a weight on the Tmx tank keeps trim nice and balanced.

With that set up he wouldn't need the Rebreather...

I love steels for OC as you can over fill them but doing 140ft ect I still just use a AL40, if you start thinking about doing 200 just add another 40. Since you are diving with others who are on OC I would imagine there isn't a dive that a 40 would not be sufficient for bailout.

Russ

10th November 2006, 19:06	#21 (permalink)
Ivon Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hull, East Yorkshire, England Posts: 318	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawktah) Yeah, I realize that, it just concerns me that you'd hand off your gas at 100 fsw and next thing you know you need it back because you have some kind of failure...I guess to me "handing it off" means its no longer a mandatory piece of equipment. I'm only AOW certified so this is a foreign concept. It not a stage its a bailout??? Please help me understand... OK here you go, your in a wreck and have just had a pretty crappy silt out and you lose the line or entrance is blocked. You look for a way out and the only way you can find is a bit of a squeeze and you have to remove your stage, pass it through first, get out and reattach it, now this way seem like a long shot but it has happened, plenty of times. Doing all this when your weighted correctly is going to make it a whole lot easier. Or Your buddy has an electronics problem or they have a compromised loop, they can either go O/C or Semi closed, either way there using there dil/bailout, you would be surprised how quick you go through bailout with a CO2 problem, hell I was! I sucked a 7ltr in no time, had I been into much more deco I would have had to use my Buddy's too and it would have been much easier for him to pass it off to me and me to carry it. It's much easier if there neutral Ali and not steel, I could go down, though not likely, but he could sure as hell go up. The chance of you both having a problem at the same time is small, I always carry enough for me and have just bought larger tins so have more than enough for me and some spare for my buddy. Hope that helps.
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10th November 2006, 20:27	#22 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawktah) Yeah, I realize that, it just concerns me that you'd hand off your gas at 100 fsw and next thing you know you need it back because you have some kind of failure...I guess to me "handing it off" means its no longer a mandatory piece of equipment. I'm only AOW certified so this is a foreign concept. It not a stage its a bailout??? Please help me understand... I think you're grasped the concept perfectly You help out your buddy and then you die Seriously it's a matter of risk analysis. How often do problems occur? If you are not sure bring all the gas you need to get up yourself and insist on your buddy doing the same. For some dives (I'm not the expert here) its just not feasible and you can bring sufficient (suitable) gas for two on a party of four. And then again there are people that beleive they don't need anything at all.... And yes bringing a pony, a sling or a stage is all about bailout. If all goes right you don't need to breath from them at all. On my dives I only bring 40 cuft compressed air. The pro's on this board have to bring multiple cylinders with different mixes. E.g. a lean bottom mix to travel up a lot. Then e.g. EAN50 and finally EAN80 or oxygen. Bringing all that gas and not needing it if all goes right. It's fun eh? __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
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10th November 2006, 21:24	#23 (permalink)
Dawktah New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 38	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles Thanks! I will need to customize my bailout gases to my diving. My current plan is to dive from my own personal rib with either my wife on OC or a buddy on OC. According to the Rebreather World World Map there is only one CCR diver within 35 miles and only 2 within 100 miles. So I ma planning on being a solo CCR diver. From reading I will probably sling a small cylinder and hang a larger one on my shot line. Maybe, with funds, oxygen at 15ft. This may change by the time I finish my course... Thanks for all the help!
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10th November 2006, 21:28	#24 (permalink)
bobmaggi New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South west Michigan Posts: 77	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles I'm right here across the lake from you - let's get together for a dive sometime! We dive all winter over here, we just bring a larger chainsaw on the colder days! Bob Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawktah) Thanks! I will need to customize my bailout gases to my diving. My current plan is to dive from my own personal rib with either my wife on OC or a buddy on OC. According to the Rebreather World World Map there is only one CCR diver within 35 miles and only 2 within 100 miles. So I ma planning on being a solo CCR diver.
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10th November 2006, 21:59	#25 (permalink)
Ivon Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hull, East Yorkshire, England Posts: 318	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by bobmaggi) I'm right here across the lake from you - let's get together for a dive sometime! We dive all winter over here, we just bring a larger chainsaw on the colder days! Bob There you go, you have a buddy already
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10th November 2006, 23:27	#26 (permalink)
Dawktah New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 38	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by Ivon) There you go, you have a buddy already Almost, I am moving to the Caribbean. I would assume living in the Caribbean you get a lot of people wanting to be your buddy! The closest is 35 nautical, nearby island. Dolphin pilot ScubaVixen. We are in contact already. Not any buddy convo since I have to buy and get trained on a CCR. Last edited by Dawktah : 10th November 2006 at 23:29.
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13th November 2006, 20:08	#27 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,693	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawktah) O.K. dumb question, are tank boots, positive, negative or neutral? Never had to deal with one near water and not on a tank! Also, is there a way to learn how to properly rig a bail/stage bottle without taking a course? I'd like to rig it before the course to save on task loading since I will have to take Advanced Nitrox in combination with CCR intro, MOD 1. The 1st Stages are heavy and make the tank float nose down. If you took them off and left a bear tank it would float prety flat. The boots sink and are there purley to protect the tank when not in the water. Weighting without the tanks alowes you to ditch them or breath them empty (at which point ali tanks will be VERY positivly boyent and steel will float but not much) and still hold a 6m stop. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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30th November 2006, 21:16	#28 (permalink)
Dawktah New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 38	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles Looks like I will be building my own gas blending and filling station. Since I am planning to get a compressor to fill to 3,500 psi with DIN, would I be better off getting steel cylinders? If this happens the deepest I will be is 100' So should be able to bail on a HP65? 16" x 7.25" diameter. Last edited by Dawktah : 30th November 2006 at 21:20.
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17th December 2006, 12:10	#29 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles I'd recommend a pair of ali 80's side-mounted. It is good to have plenty of bail, and the side-mounts keep the 80's nicely streamlined and out of the way. When carrying 1 bottom mix and 1 deco mix, a weight on the Tmx tank keeps trim nice and balanced. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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17th December 2006, 18:47	#30 (permalink)
Russ New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 88	Re: Newbie and buying stage/bailout bottles Quote: (Originally Posted by sabgia) I'd recommend a pair of ali 80's side-mounted. It is good to have plenty of bail, and the side-mounts keep the 80's nicely streamlined and out of the way. When carrying 1 bottom mix and 1 deco mix, a weight on the Tmx tank keeps trim nice and balanced. With that set up he wouldn't need the Rebreather... I love steels for OC as you can over fill them but doing 140ft ect I still just use a AL40, if you start thinking about doing 200 just add another 40. Since you are diving with others who are on OC I would imagine there isn't a dive that a 40 would not be sufficient for bailout. Russ
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