Vr3 VPM-B would you bother?

PCDiver · 20th August 2006, 19:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dinspiration)

Hello

Yes the VPM-B deco on the VR3 gives you a much longer runtime compared to the buhlmann model. Another point with the VR3 VPM-B model are the deepstops. I noticed on several dives that the duration of the deepstops were much longer than displayed, when you are very close to the depth of the stop. Example: The VR3 says 2 minutes at 20 meters and your actual depth is 20 meters. The computer let you stay at this depth for 3 – 4 minutes instead of the 2 minutes as indicated before you can ascent.

I highly recommend the colour screen. It is worth every cent without any discussion. I get around 30 – 40 diving hours (including external O2 cell reading) with a 3.6V lithium battery.

My personal recommendation is:

If you are looking to spend some money on a VR3 the colour screen is a must.
Make sure you the get a VR3 with the new main board (especially when buying a used one) – Otherwise the upgrade is quiet expensive.
Wait with the VPM-B upgrade unless you really need it

Kind regards
DINspiration

The color screen rocks, the VPM-B algoritm sucks "big time". NOT USABLE. I've tried to contact Delta-P about the VPM-B problem (excessive runtimes) but so far no replies. I bought via Barry. Great guy and excellent support. He is also trying to get to the bottom of this major issue but so far no luck.
So support from Delta-P gets a big thumbs down from me for the moment.

Peter

**Steve** · 21st August 2006, 03:32

I particularly like the VPM algorithm on the VR3. It get out of the water feeling fine and as I rarely ever feel the need to be fast out of the water. The fact that it isn't the fastest thing out there doesn't worry me one bit.

I can take or leave the colour screen. I'm not that moved in either direction by it.

PCDiver · 21st August 2006, 05:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

I particularly like the VPM algorithm on the VR3. It get out of the water feeling fine and as I rarely ever feel the need to be fast out of the water. The fact that it isn't the fastest thing out there doesn't worry me one bit.

I can take or leave the colour screen. I'm not that moved in either direction by it.

Sure? Another VR3 user had to use his tables because his VR3 gave him over 100 minutes extra deco compared to VPlanner and VR3 bullman. This was on a 100 meter dive. Also, my wife made an extra short (<2 minutes) deep stop at 40 meters to stay with her buddies and the VR3 penalised her with 17 minutes extra.

And this was on a moderate dive (BT 15 minutes, max depth 60 meters).

Apparently the VPM-B implementation is a combination of VPM-B padded with extra stops in the shallow. Very strange.

N.Bassily · 21st August 2006, 07:43

hi

her another vote for Barrie both for price and service .

nader

**nigelh** · 21st August 2006, 08:58

I bought the colour screen and I'm well pleased with it. More readably for my weak old eyes.
I use the 3.6V batteries and they seem to last and last so clearly it's not 'much' worse on the consumption front.

I didn't buy VPM because I'm not actually convinced by the model and nothing I have heard since convinces me that it is 'better' than Bulhmann with added deep stops.

DrJM · 21st August 2006, 09:09

I'm using a VR3-VPM since 15 month for deep cave diving on heliox and I am very happy of it. It's +/- equivalent to vplanner VPM-B-E coef +4

It just make me laugh when you're all winging about having to stay in the water longer ... because you're all winging through the week about having to work longer in your office and not being able to be in the water ... and when you're in the water you want to go out more quickly ???

C'mon guys, be safe and stay a bit more uw, it won't hurt and you'll avoid DCIs

Good day

Jerome

PCDiver · 21st August 2006, 10:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by DrJM)

I'm using a VR3-VPM since 15 month for deep cave diving on heliox and I am very happy of it. It's +/- equivalent to vplanner VPM-B-E coef +4

It just make me laugh when you're all winging about having to stay in the water longer ... because you're all winging through the week about having to work longer in your office and not being able to be in the water ... and when you're in the water you want to go out more quickly ???

C'mon guys, be safe and stay a bit more uw, it won't hurt and you'll avoid DCIs

Good day

Jerome

Hi Jerome,

it's not a question about being in the water longer. The problem is that the computer underwater behaves differently than in planning mode. You plan the dive with the VR3. Then you dive the plan and you end up with 50% more deco under water.

There is something wrong when the VR3 runs in VPM-B mode.

Are you only diving Heliox? There could be something wrong with the N calculations.

**Steve** · 21st August 2006, 12:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver)

Hi Jerome,

it's not a question about being in the water longer. The problem is that the computer underwater behaves differently than in planning mode. You plan the dive with the VR3. Then you dive the plan and you end up with 50% more deco under water.

There is something wrong when the VR3 runs in VPM-B mode.

Are you only diving Heliox? There could be something wrong with the N calculations.

Are you sure they didn't have multiple gasses turned on?

The VR3 will recalculate deco based on what gasses you have turned on and what you tell it you have switched to. Both the new and the old will add a big chunk of time at the MOD of another dil if you don't actually switch to it. For example if you plan to do a 100m dive, have your dil set to trimix 10/60 and a pO2 of 1.3 and plan to do that dive but also have air turned on your VR3 will think you intend to do a dil switch at the MOD of air (40m?). When you don't switch it slugs you with the aditional time.

I find the times between my VPM and Bullman VR3s fairly similar. The old deep stops tend to come on deeper but the runtimes even out. On really long deep dives i.e. 100m for 45minutes the VPM one gives a longer time by about 15minutes over the course of a 6 hour dive.

If it shoots out 100minutes it is a problem with the computer not the algorithm

PCDiver · 21st August 2006, 13:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

Are you sure they didn't have multiple gasses turned on?

The VR3 will recalculate deco based on what gasses you have turned on and what you tell it you have switched to. Both the new and the old will add a big chunk of time at the MOD of another dil if you don't actually switch to it. For example if you plan to do a 100m dive, have your dil set to trimix 10/60 and a pO2 of 1.3 and plan to do that dive but also have air turned on your VR3 will think you intend to do a dil switch at the MOD of air (40m?). When you don't switch it slugs you with the aditional time.

I find the times between my VPM and Bullman VR3s fairly similar. The old deep stops tend to come on deeper but the runtimes even out. On really long deep dives i.e. 100m for 45minutes the VPM one gives a longer time by about 15minutes over the course of a 6 hour dive.

If it shoots out 100minutes it is a problem with the computer not the algorithm

Nope, it was not related to the gas selection. We got some deep dives planned by the end of September. We will download the profiles and send the info to DeltaP via Barrie. I hope they find out what's wrong with those VR3s.

ccscuba · 22nd August 2006, 11:48

Mine (separate and on the Ouroboros) both run to the predicted time. we did have an issue with one which gave different times but it did have other gasses turned on.

20th August 2006, 19:47	#11 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 968	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dinspiration) Hello Yes the VPM-B deco on the VR3 gives you a much longer runtime compared to the buhlmann model. Another point with the VR3 VPM-B model are the deepstops. I noticed on several dives that the duration of the deepstops were much longer than displayed, when you are very close to the depth of the stop. Example: The VR3 says 2 minutes at 20 meters and your actual depth is 20 meters. The computer let you stay at this depth for 3 – 4 minutes instead of the 2 minutes as indicated before you can ascent. I highly recommend the colour screen. It is worth every cent without any discussion. I get around 30 – 40 diving hours (including external O2 cell reading) with a 3.6V lithium battery. My personal recommendation is: If you are looking to spend some money on a VR3 the colour screen is a must. Make sure you the get a VR3 with the new main board (especially when buying a used one) – Otherwise the upgrade is quiet expensive. Wait with the VPM-B upgrade unless you really need it Kind regards DINspiration The color screen rocks, the VPM-B algoritm sucks "big time". NOT USABLE. I've tried to contact Delta-P about the VPM-B problem (excessive runtimes) but so far no replies. I bought via Barry. Great guy and excellent support. He is also trying to get to the bottom of this major issue but so far no luck. So support from Delta-P gets a big thumbs down from me for the moment. Peter
(Offline)

21st August 2006, 03:32	#12 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,117	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? I particularly like the VPM algorithm on the VR3. It get out of the water feeling fine and as I rarely ever feel the need to be fast out of the water. The fact that it isn't the fastest thing out there doesn't worry me one bit. I can take or leave the colour screen. I'm not that moved in either direction by it. __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
(Online)

21st August 2006, 05:39	#13 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 968	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) I particularly like the VPM algorithm on the VR3. It get out of the water feeling fine and as I rarely ever feel the need to be fast out of the water. The fact that it isn't the fastest thing out there doesn't worry me one bit. I can take or leave the colour screen. I'm not that moved in either direction by it. Sure? Another VR3 user had to use his tables because his VR3 gave him over 100 minutes extra deco compared to VPlanner and VR3 bullman. This was on a 100 meter dive. Also, my wife made an extra short (<2 minutes) deep stop at 40 meters to stay with her buddies and the VR3 penalised her with 17 minutes extra. And this was on a moderate dive (BT 15 minutes, max depth 60 meters). Apparently the VPM-B implementation is a combination of VPM-B padded with extra stops in the shallow. Very strange.
(Offline)

21st August 2006, 07:43	#14 (permalink)
N.Bassily New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 21	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? hi her another vote for Barrie both for price and service . nader
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21st August 2006, 08:58	#15 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 836	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? I bought the colour screen and I'm well pleased with it. More readably for my weak old eyes. I use the 3.6V batteries and they seem to last and last so clearly it's not 'much' worse on the consumption front. I didn't buy VPM because I'm not actually convinced by the model and nothing I have heard since convinces me that it is 'better' than Bulhmann with added deep stops. __________________ nigelh
(Online)

21st August 2006, 09:09	#16 (permalink)
DrJM Deep Cave Explorer Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Join Date: May 2005 Location: France Posts: 344	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? I'm using a VR3-VPM since 15 month for deep cave diving on heliox and I am very happy of it. It's +/- equivalent to vplanner VPM-B-E coef +4 It just make me laugh when you're all winging about having to stay in the water longer ... because you're all winging through the week about having to work longer in your office and not being able to be in the water ... and when you're in the water you want to go out more quickly ??? C'mon guys, be safe and stay a bit more uw, it won't hurt and you'll avoid DCIs Good day Jerome __________________ www.snoopyloop.com Deep Cave Exploration
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21st August 2006, 10:14	#17 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 968	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? Quote: (Originally Posted by DrJM) I'm using a VR3-VPM since 15 month for deep cave diving on heliox and I am very happy of it. It's +/- equivalent to vplanner VPM-B-E coef +4 It just make me laugh when you're all winging about having to stay in the water longer ... because you're all winging through the week about having to work longer in your office and not being able to be in the water ... and when you're in the water you want to go out more quickly ??? C'mon guys, be safe and stay a bit more uw, it won't hurt and you'll avoid DCIs Good day Jerome Hi Jerome, it's not a question about being in the water longer. The problem is that the computer underwater behaves differently than in planning mode. You plan the dive with the VR3. Then you dive the plan and you end up with 50% more deco under water. There is something wrong when the VR3 runs in VPM-B mode. Are you only diving Heliox? There could be something wrong with the N calculations.
(Offline)

21st August 2006, 12:52	#18 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,117	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver) Hi Jerome, it's not a question about being in the water longer. The problem is that the computer underwater behaves differently than in planning mode. You plan the dive with the VR3. Then you dive the plan and you end up with 50% more deco under water. There is something wrong when the VR3 runs in VPM-B mode. Are you only diving Heliox? There could be something wrong with the N calculations. Are you sure they didn't have multiple gasses turned on? The VR3 will recalculate deco based on what gasses you have turned on and what you tell it you have switched to. Both the new and the old will add a big chunk of time at the MOD of another dil if you don't actually switch to it. For example if you plan to do a 100m dive, have your dil set to trimix 10/60 and a pO2 of 1.3 and plan to do that dive but also have air turned on your VR3 will think you intend to do a dil switch at the MOD of air (40m?). When you don't switch it slugs you with the aditional time. I find the times between my VPM and Bullman VR3s fairly similar. The old deep stops tend to come on deeper but the runtimes even out. On really long deep dives i.e. 100m for 45minutes the VPM one gives a longer time by about 15minutes over the course of a 6 hour dive. If it shoots out 100minutes it is a problem with the computer not the algorithm __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
(Online)

21st August 2006, 13:53	#19 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 968	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) Are you sure they didn't have multiple gasses turned on? The VR3 will recalculate deco based on what gasses you have turned on and what you tell it you have switched to. Both the new and the old will add a big chunk of time at the MOD of another dil if you don't actually switch to it. For example if you plan to do a 100m dive, have your dil set to trimix 10/60 and a pO2 of 1.3 and plan to do that dive but also have air turned on your VR3 will think you intend to do a dil switch at the MOD of air (40m?). When you don't switch it slugs you with the aditional time. I find the times between my VPM and Bullman VR3s fairly similar. The old deep stops tend to come on deeper but the runtimes even out. On really long deep dives i.e. 100m for 45minutes the VPM one gives a longer time by about 15minutes over the course of a 6 hour dive. If it shoots out 100minutes it is a problem with the computer not the algorithm Nope, it was not related to the gas selection. We got some deep dives planned by the end of September. We will download the profiles and send the info to DeltaP via Barrie. I hope they find out what's wrong with those VR3s.
(Offline)

22nd August 2006, 11:48	#20 (permalink)
ccscuba New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: England Posts: 73	Re: Vr3 VPM-B would you bother? Mine (separate and on the Ouroboros) both run to the predicted time. we did have an issue with one which gave different times but it did have other gasses turned on.
(Offline)

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