RGBM Licensing?

zbskii · 8th May 2006, 07:42

Anybody know if the various decompression algorithms require a license fee? VPM appears to be in the public domain, but I couldn't find anything on RGBM. Also is there a technical description or reference implementation of RGBM around somewhere?
-Brett

decoweenie · 8th May 2006, 08:04

Last time I check was ~5 years ago for Decoweenie, and it was around US$4,500 for RGBM.

zbskii · 8th May 2006, 08:07

Thus the populatrity of VPM.

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Last time I check was ~5 years ago for Decoweenie, and it was around US$4,500 for RGBM.

decoweenie · 8th May 2006, 09:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by zbskii)

Also is there a technical description or reference implementation of RGBM around somewhere?

Look at the GAP website. Kees licensed RGBM for his software a few years back.

Also try Hydrospace (computer) website, not sure if Gene ever disclosed anything about his implementation of RGBM into the Explorer.

diverklondike · 8th May 2006, 11:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Look at the GAP website. Kees licensed RGBM for his software a few years back.

Also try Hydrospace (computer) website, not sure if Gene ever disclosed anything about his implementation of RGBM into the Explorer.

Here is a link to Bruce W's site....

http://www.rgbmdiving.com/

GAP · 8th May 2006, 12:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Look at the GAP website. Kees licensed RGBM for his software a few years back.

Also try Hydrospace (computer) website, not sure if Gene ever disclosed anything about his implementation of RGBM into the Explorer.

Well to me at least :-)

greetings Kees

GAP · 8th May 2006, 12:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Last time I check was ~5 years ago for Decoweenie, and it was around US$4,500 for RGBM.

a bit more for me.

AD_ward9 · 8th May 2006, 13:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by zbskii)

Anybody know if the various decompression algorithms require a license fee? VPM appears to be in the public domain, but I couldn't find anything on RGBM. Also is there a technical description or reference implementation of RGBM around somewhere?
-Brett

Only RGBM requires a fee, and that is only because their algorithm is not fully disclosed. That fact alone makes it impossible to formally verify that the implementation is correct. Bruce Wienke is the man to contact, and $4.5k seems to be the going rate to start with.

It is our intention to publish a RGBM formal model, which anyone can then challenge as being wrong. At the moment, there are so many differences between different "RGBM" implementations, we are having real difficulty validating our formal model. When we contacted Bruce Wienke to access the database of profiles he is building up we were denied access - we believe the reason is our formal model would have shown up the wide variation in RGBM implementations, rather than worries about loss of licence revenue. There appear to be a series of different RGBM algorithms in use, of different dates.

On the technical info, there is a fair bit on Bruce's site, and he is a co-author on a lot of scientific papers involving deco which you can find easily. However, there is no reference implementation.

Cheers,

Alex

GAP · 8th May 2006, 15:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

Only RGBM requires a fee, and that is only because their algorithm is not fully disclosed. That fact alone makes it impossible to formally verify that the implementation is correct. Bruce Wienke is the man to contact, and $4.5k seems to be the going rate to start with.

It is our intention to publish a RGBM formal model, which anyone can then challenge as being wrong. At the moment, there are so many differences between different "RGBM" implementations, we are having real difficulty validating our formal model. When we contacted Bruce Wienke to access the database of profiles he is building up we were denied access - we believe the reason is our formal model would have shown up the wide variation in RGBM implementations, rather than worries about loss of licence revenue. There appear to be a series of different RGBM algorithms in use, of different dates.

On the technical info, there is a fair bit on Bruce's site, and he is a co-author on a lot of scientific papers involving deco which you can find easily. However, there is no reference implementation.

Cheers,

Alex

Well, I disagree, Saying that RGBM has many implementations is saying that buhlmann GF has more then 10 implementations (5/100, 10/90, 15/85 .....

)
All the people that I know and use the iterative code have the same implementation but vary the three main variables in the model. We at GAP-Software never made a secret about the settings of these variables.
In the desktop software we show the pfac,bfac and rfac values and in the GAP-Lite product even more information of the RGBM is given.

The folded version of RGBM has, as I suspect, haldane model with settings that make it more behave as rgbm in the operating envelope of the dive computer.

There is a reference implementation in Fortran but then you have to buy license to have that code

I know about 5 people in the world who have that code, me included. Why do you not get a license? and be the 6th.

Greetings Kees

lizardland · 8th May 2006, 16:32

As for VPM when Eric Baker sent me an early copy of the code he told me it could be used freely provided it wasn't for a commercial venture. It would appear the license has since changed as there are now commercial products using VPM.

8th May 2006, 07:42	#1 (permalink)
zbskii I have a diving problem. Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 138	RGBM Licensing? Anybody know if the various decompression algorithms require a license fee? VPM appears to be in the public domain, but I couldn't find anything on RGBM. Also is there a technical description or reference implementation of RGBM around somewhere? -Brett
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8th May 2006, 08:04	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: RGBM Licensing? Last time I check was ~5 years ago for Decoweenie, and it was around US$4,500 for RGBM.
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8th May 2006, 08:07	#3 (permalink)
zbskii I have a diving problem. Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 138	Re: RGBM Licensing? Thus the populatrity of VPM. Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Last time I check was ~5 years ago for Decoweenie, and it was around US$4,500 for RGBM.
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8th May 2006, 09:46	#4 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: RGBM Licensing? Quote: (Originally Posted by zbskii) Also is there a technical description or reference implementation of RGBM around somewhere? Look at the GAP website. Kees licensed RGBM for his software a few years back. Also try Hydrospace (computer) website, not sure if Gene ever disclosed anything about his implementation of RGBM into the Explorer.
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8th May 2006, 11:11	#5 (permalink)
diverklondike Just one of the Peasants Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,613	Re: RGBM Licensing? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Look at the GAP website. Kees licensed RGBM for his software a few years back. Also try Hydrospace (computer) website, not sure if Gene ever disclosed anything about his implementation of RGBM into the Explorer. Here is a link to Bruce W's site.... http://www.rgbmdiving.com/
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8th May 2006, 12:24	#6 (permalink)
GAP RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the Netherlands, heerhugoward Posts: 26	Re: RGBM Licensing? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Look at the GAP website. Kees licensed RGBM for his software a few years back. Also try Hydrospace (computer) website, not sure if Gene ever disclosed anything about his implementation of RGBM into the Explorer. Well to me at least :-) greetings Kees
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8th May 2006, 12:28	#7 (permalink)
GAP RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the Netherlands, heerhugoward Posts: 26	Re: RGBM Licensing? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Last time I check was ~5 years ago for Decoweenie, and it was around US$4,500 for RGBM. a bit more for me.
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8th May 2006, 13:39	#8 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,862	Re: RGBM Licensing? Quote: (Originally Posted by zbskii) Anybody know if the various decompression algorithms require a license fee? VPM appears to be in the public domain, but I couldn't find anything on RGBM. Also is there a technical description or reference implementation of RGBM around somewhere? -Brett Only RGBM requires a fee, and that is only because their algorithm is not fully disclosed. That fact alone makes it impossible to formally verify that the implementation is correct. Bruce Wienke is the man to contact, and $4.5k seems to be the going rate to start with. It is our intention to publish a RGBM formal model, which anyone can then challenge as being wrong. At the moment, there are so many differences between different "RGBM" implementations, we are having real difficulty validating our formal model. When we contacted Bruce Wienke to access the database of profiles he is building up we were denied access - we believe the reason is our formal model would have shown up the wide variation in RGBM implementations, rather than worries about loss of licence revenue. There appear to be a series of different RGBM algorithms in use, of different dates. On the technical info, there is a fair bit on Bruce's site, and he is a co-author on a lot of scientific papers involving deco which you can find easily. However, there is no reference implementation. Cheers, Alex Last edited by AD_ward9 : 8th May 2006 at 14:16.
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8th May 2006, 15:55	#9 (permalink)
GAP RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the Netherlands, heerhugoward Posts: 26	Re: RGBM Licensing? Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) Only RGBM requires a fee, and that is only because their algorithm is not fully disclosed. That fact alone makes it impossible to formally verify that the implementation is correct. Bruce Wienke is the man to contact, and $4.5k seems to be the going rate to start with. It is our intention to publish a RGBM formal model, which anyone can then challenge as being wrong. At the moment, there are so many differences between different "RGBM" implementations, we are having real difficulty validating our formal model. When we contacted Bruce Wienke to access the database of profiles he is building up we were denied access - we believe the reason is our formal model would have shown up the wide variation in RGBM implementations, rather than worries about loss of licence revenue. There appear to be a series of different RGBM algorithms in use, of different dates. On the technical info, there is a fair bit on Bruce's site, and he is a co-author on a lot of scientific papers involving deco which you can find easily. However, there is no reference implementation. Cheers, Alex Well, I disagree, Saying that RGBM has many implementations is saying that buhlmann GF has more then 10 implementations (5/100, 10/90, 15/85 ..... ) All the people that I know and use the iterative code have the same implementation but vary the three main variables in the model. We at GAP-Software never made a secret about the settings of these variables. In the desktop software we show the pfac,bfac and rfac values and in the GAP-Lite product even more information of the RGBM is given. The folded version of RGBM has, as I suspect, haldane model with settings that make it more behave as rgbm in the operating envelope of the dive computer. There is a reference implementation in Fortran but then you have to buy license to have that code I know about 5 people in the world who have that code, me included. Why do you not get a license? and be the 6th. Greetings Kees __________________
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8th May 2006, 16:32	#10 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,301	Re: RGBM Licensing? As for VPM when Eric Baker sent me an early copy of the code he told me it could be used freely provided it wasn't for a commercial venture. It would appear the license has since changed as there are now commercial products using VPM. __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
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