Bailout Cylinder Sizes

athomson · 11th December 2007, 12:14

Hi all,

I'm heading towards my Mod 2 at the moment and am starting to think about my kit configuration some more with regards to it. I'm also thinking its Christmas time and the family are asking what to get me (yippee, more dive gear, here I come).

Currently I dive a Inspiration Vision. When I'm doing something long or deepish, I add a Ali 7ltr or two (depending on the exact dive requirements) - I own one and borrow the second when needed.

Anyway, as I mentioned, I am doing my Mod 2 in the new year in Malin Head in Ireland and am trying to decide is it time to ditch the sevens and head for side slung tens, or should I stick with what I have and buy another seven.

Doing the numbers with V-planner for spending 20 minutes at 60m, the twin sevens should just about get me out of the water but there won't be much in the way of gas left?

Anyone got any opinions?

**Fun Under Pressure** · 11th December 2007, 13:23

Buy ali 80´s. With a TMX they have a perfect trim. So you can wear 2-3 on every site. I wear 2-3 on the left site w/o any problems. I use a 7L ali only for 100% Oxygen. and wear it on the right site. Good Luck with your MOD 2.

Cheers Markku

lizardland · 11th December 2007, 15:08

One of the biggest reasons that is going to force you off the loop would be CO2. Are the 7's enough to cope with a bailout on the bottom in that case?

Ahhh... the great alpinist debate again

***Decodiver*** · 11th December 2007, 15:21

I would say get 2 Ali 80s and a Golem Gear Armadillo, you won't even know they're there until you need them and as your diving grows you can add the Ali 7 you already have.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

louisrankin · 11th December 2007, 15:24

Quote:

Buy ali 80´s. With a TMX they have a perfect trim.

What is a TMX?????

Louis

Ben Field · 11th December 2007, 15:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by louisrankin)

What is a TMX?????

Its a kind of all-terrain breathing gas that allows you to bunny hop with ease...

Back to the question- I've saved one of my giant OC Trimix deco bottles (10.4ltr 232bar Ali) for deeper Rebreather diving, yes they are big (like a steel 15) but on the Armadillo it really doesn't get in the way.

As Stuart alluded- the size of the bottle you take is down to your approach, the guy at my LDS does 100mtrs with a couple of 3ltr bailout bottles! whereas my buddies and I take a minimum of a 3ltr, if not a 5 or 7 on even very shallow dives (10mtrs or less!)

Apparently we're "crazy" and stuck with an OC mindset, your life your choice IMO

**nigelh** · 11th December 2007, 15:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

Apparently we're "crazy" and stuck with an OC mindset,

Oh nice... Can I borrow that one?

I did mod2 on a single steel 7L of bottom mix and a team bailout approach.
The deco times looked horrendous.

Since then I've deco dived with two 7Ls (both steel) and no-team thinking (the team can have my gas but their gas isn't in my plan).

No stop I just dive with what is on board (plus seperate suit inflate).

I await instruction on hypoxic diving. It's an interesting call as to when carrying all that bailout on every dive makes an incident due to the bailout more likely than the incident it is supposed to save you from.

Mark Chase · 11th December 2007, 16:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by athomson)

Hi all,

I'm heading towards my Mod 2 at the moment and am starting to think about my kit configuration some more with regards to it. I'm also thinking its Christmas time and the family are asking what to get me (yippee, more dive gear, here I come).

Currently I dive a Inspiration Vision. When I'm doing something long or deepish, I add a Ali 7ltr or two (depending on the exact dive requirements) - I own one and borrow the second when needed.

Anyway, as I mentioned, I am doing my Mod 2 in the new year in Malin Head in Ireland and am trying to decide is it time to ditch the sevens and head for side slung tens, or should I stick with what I have and buy another seven.

Doing the numbers with V-planner for spending 20 minutes at 60m, the twin sevens should just about get me out of the water but there won't be much in the way of gas left?

Anyone got any opinions?

Any dive with a bailout planned 90mins of deco i take two 7s allowing a 30SAC for the deep mix. For my diving that gets me down to 50ish m.

After that I am on a steel 10 with 18/45 in (it floats) and an Ali 80 with 50% in. Past 120min run I add a drop tank of 80% on the boat and cut some very very agresive (just in case i dont get the drop tank) tables.

I tried two steel 10s and I couldn't trim out because the 18/45 floats and the 50 sinks like a large rock. The Ali 80 with 50% in is about 1.5kg neg with a 230bar fill. The Steel 10 of 18/45 is almost neutral + the first stage

To get an Ali 80 to float the same as the 10 you have to run it at around 160bar of 50%. Thats useless for the dives i do.

I chose to run the steel 10 for the deep mix because it tolerates over blowing a lot better than the ali. My steel 10 is always at at least 250bar. You can never have too much gas

PS: I forgot to mention a steel 10 empty is neutrol so it dosent make you boyent. An ali 80 empty is very very floaty so if your emptying your deep tin and then emptying your shalow tin and they are both 2Kg+ positive,, watch out.

The DIR boys aparently send the empties up the line rather than try and carry floaty tanks.

ATB

Mark

Mikel-Deko · 11th December 2007, 16:38

I've a Ali80 with Tx 10/60 and a ali7 with 45/25.
i've to put 2 kgs in the ali 80 to be less bouy because it is not easy to work with been so positive.
In big dives +ali80 Ean50.

My two cents.

Best

Mikel

Explorer · 11th December 2007, 17:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

I would say get 2 Ali 80s and a Golem Gear Armadillo, you won't even know they're there until you need them.

Great setup for sure.

11th December 2007, 12:14	#1 (permalink)
athomson New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dublin Posts: 9	Bailout Cylinder Sizes Hi all, I'm heading towards my Mod 2 at the moment and am starting to think about my kit configuration some more with regards to it. I'm also thinking its Christmas time and the family are asking what to get me (yippee, more dive gear, here I come). Currently I dive a Inspiration Vision. When I'm doing something long or deepish, I add a Ali 7ltr or two (depending on the exact dive requirements) - I own one and borrow the second when needed. Anyway, as I mentioned, I am doing my Mod 2 in the new year in Malin Head in Ireland and am trying to decide is it time to ditch the sevens and head for side slung tens, or should I stick with what I have and buy another seven. Doing the numbers with V-planner for spending 20 minutes at 60m, the twin sevens should just about get me out of the water but there won't be much in the way of gas left? Anyone got any opinions?
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11th December 2007, 13:23	#2 (permalink)
Fun Under Pressure Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 594	Re: Bailout Cylinder Sizes Buy ali 80´s. With a TMX they have a perfect trim. So you can wear 2-3 on every site. I wear 2-3 on the left site w/o any problems. I use a 7L ali only for 100% Oxygen. and wear it on the right site. Good Luck with your MOD 2. Cheers Markku
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11th December 2007, 15:08	#3 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,188	Re: Bailout Cylinder Sizes One of the biggest reasons that is going to force you off the loop would be CO2. Are the 7's enough to cope with a bailout on the bottom in that case? Ahhh... the great alpinist debate again __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
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11th December 2007, 15:21	#4 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,168	Re: Bailout Cylinder Sizes I would say get 2 Ali 80s and a Golem Gear Armadillo, you won't even know they're there until you need them and as your diving grows you can add the Ali 7 you already have. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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11th December 2007, 15:24	#5 (permalink)
louisrankin Póg mo thóin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cambridge Posts: 301	Re: Bailout Cylinder Sizes Quote: Buy ali 80´s. With a TMX they have a perfect trim. What is a TMX????? Louis
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11th December 2007, 15:34	#6 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,482	Re: Bailout Cylinder Sizes Quote: (Originally Posted by louisrankin) What is a TMX????? Its a kind of all-terrain breathing gas that allows you to bunny hop with ease... Back to the question- I've saved one of my giant OC Trimix deco bottles (10.4ltr 232bar Ali) for deeper Rebreather diving, yes they are big (like a steel 15) but on the Armadillo it really doesn't get in the way. As Stuart alluded- the size of the bottle you take is down to your approach, the guy at my LDS does 100mtrs with a couple of 3ltr bailout bottles! whereas my buddies and I take a minimum of a 3ltr, if not a 5 or 7 on even very shallow dives (10mtrs or less!) Apparently we're "crazy" and stuck with an OC mindset, your life your choice IMO __________________ www.hugsac.org.uk Beware Fridge Suck
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11th December 2007, 15:51	#7 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 792	Re: Bailout Cylinder Sizes Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) Apparently we're "crazy" and stuck with an OC mindset, Oh nice... Can I borrow that one? I did mod2 on a single steel 7L of bottom mix and a team bailout approach. The deco times looked horrendous. Since then I've deco dived with two 7Ls (both steel) and no-team thinking (the team can have my gas but their gas isn't in my plan). No stop I just dive with what is on board (plus seperate suit inflate). I await instruction on hypoxic diving. It's an interesting call as to when carrying all that bailout on every dive makes an incident due to the bailout more likely than the incident it is supposed to save you from. __________________ nigelh Last edited by nigelh : 11th December 2007 at 15:55.
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11th December 2007, 16:08	#8 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Bailout Cylinder Sizes Quote: (Originally Posted by athomson) Hi all, I'm heading towards my Mod 2 at the moment and am starting to think about my kit configuration some more with regards to it. I'm also thinking its Christmas time and the family are asking what to get me (yippee, more dive gear, here I come). Currently I dive a Inspiration Vision. When I'm doing something long or deepish, I add a Ali 7ltr or two (depending on the exact dive requirements) - I own one and borrow the second when needed. Anyway, as I mentioned, I am doing my Mod 2 in the new year in Malin Head in Ireland and am trying to decide is it time to ditch the sevens and head for side slung tens, or should I stick with what I have and buy another seven. Doing the numbers with V-planner for spending 20 minutes at 60m, the twin sevens should just about get me out of the water but there won't be much in the way of gas left? Anyone got any opinions? Any dive with a bailout planned 90mins of deco i take two 7s allowing a 30SAC for the deep mix. For my diving that gets me down to 50ish m. After that I am on a steel 10 with 18/45 in (it floats) and an Ali 80 with 50% in. Past 120min run I add a drop tank of 80% on the boat and cut some very very agresive (just in case i dont get the drop tank) tables. I tried two steel 10s and I couldn't trim out because the 18/45 floats and the 50 sinks like a large rock. The Ali 80 with 50% in is about 1.5kg neg with a 230bar fill. The Steel 10 of 18/45 is almost neutral + the first stage To get an Ali 80 to float the same as the 10 you have to run it at around 160bar of 50%. Thats useless for the dives i do. I chose to run the steel 10 for the deep mix because it tolerates over blowing a lot better than the ali. My steel 10 is always at at least 250bar. You can never have too much gas PS: I forgot to mention a steel 10 empty is neutrol so it dosent make you boyent. An ali 80 empty is very very floaty so if your emptying your deep tin and then emptying your shalow tin and they are both 2Kg+ positive,, watch out. The DIR boys aparently send the empties up the line rather than try and carry floaty tanks. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System Last edited by Mark Chase : 11th December 2007 at 16:47.
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11th December 2007, 16:38	#9 (permalink)
Mikel-Deko Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Basque Country -Sp- Posts: 414	Re: Bailout Cylinder Sizes I've a Ali80 with Tx 10/60 and a ali7 with 45/25. i've to put 2 kgs in the ali 80 to be less bouy because it is not easy to work with been so positive. In big dives +ali80 Ean50. My two cents. Best Mikel __________________ Mikel-Deko Basque Country www.olatu.net "DIR is the nanny state for divers who cannot think on their own" Ron Micjan
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11th December 2007, 17:12	#10 (permalink)
Explorer I will teach you a..... Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 754	Re: Bailout Cylinder Sizes Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) I would say get 2 Ali 80s and a Golem Gear Armadillo, you won't even know they're there until you need them. Great setup for sure. __________________ TRAIN WRECKED.....
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