setting pri and sec handsets differently???

diverreb · 12th December 2007, 13:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lilou6)

Hello,

How did you import the profile on PC ? Not with the HH...

Best regards

Lilian

It's from a Sensus Ultra.... a very small data recorder that can be clipped off or put in a pocket.

"Sensus Ultra is ReefNet's third-generation dive data logging device. Building on the strengths of its predecessors, it remains the simplest, most convenient tool for collecting detailed dive log data. Remarkably, it's also the most affordable!

Don't let Sensus Ultra's diminutive size (1" x 1.3" x 1.75") fool you. Packed inside are a sophisticated sensor, flash memory and processor capable of storing 1500 hours of dive data with a 10 second sampling interval."

ReefNet Inc. | Sensus Ultra

I use one too.... They are inexpensive & a great way to log your dives. It comes with it's own software for Mac or PC. I use a Mac and there is a great third party software package called Dive Log.

DiveLog

It's a lot more flexible, as far as indexing the dives, than the oem software.

Richie

Lilou6 · 12th December 2007, 14:00

Thanks,

Good to know

Lilian

**Dsix36** · 18th January 2008, 01:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

so use the custom GF.. set them both with the same GF-lo and make the secondary with the higher gf high.. (smaller number means deeper initial stops)

This last weekend while diving with SCRUBS in Key Largo, I set my primary GF at 25/85 and my secondary at 25/95. The TTS was much more believable, the secondary showed a few minutes less TTS than the primary on all dives.

I will probably change the lower GF value to 15 on both handsets. Any thoughts?

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 18th January 2008, 02:11

Depends on the dive, mix, time and what theory you want to believe (on that day).

With it set so low, you are stopping so deep that you are potentially not even offgassing (ongassing-causing even more deco obligation). If, at the same time, you set the GF high closer to 100, you are then also potentially causing an even higher risk by stopping deeper, ingassing, and then coming very close to the maximum risk at the time of exit. (This is why 10/100 is considered so aggressive.)

If you believe in deep stops, and you set the GF low to a low number but the GF high to a number that is farther away from 100 (let's say 85), you are potentially being pretty conservative and covering both ends of the spectrum for risk control (by stopping deep and then exiting the water after extending the shallow stops). However, this is only if you think that the very low GF low is at a stop where you are offgassing sufficiently (rather than still ongassing by stopping too deep).

If you believe in deep stops, exactly where do you set the GF low to stop at just the right spot so that you are offgassing, doing a deep stop and not incurring a higher risk? Depends on the depth, time, mix and phase of moon.

Are we having fun yet?

**Dsix36** · 19th January 2008, 00:07

by setting the GF low at 10, the first stop will be deeper and the depth will be set by what depth my pressures reach 10% of the MV value. Thus My first(deepest) stop be always be offgassing rather than ongassing.

Now, we are havin fun.

By the way, I will try to knock out your spacer tomorrow

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 19th January 2008, 05:44

I'd be happy to discuss this at length with you in person, because your answer is both right and wrong depending on which theory you believe.

While one set of compartments are at 10 percent, you will continue to ongass in others while hanging out for very, very deep stops. Then, you will have to make additional and longer stops along the way to account for that. You will start to rack up quite a bit of extra stop time.

The great debate comes when trying to decide exactly where to draw the line. "Tighten the guitar string too much and it will break. Leave it too loose and it will not play music." (I believe that this is a paraphrase of Siddhartha.) It's all a matter of balance.

Mark Chase · 19th January 2008, 06:15

If this happens again check the run time and depth on both hand sets.

On my HH it could do a reboot due to the usual contact issues and if it was a one off rather than a repeated event, I might not notice. During the re boot it re set deco to zero.

First time i noticed this I had checked my deco and i had about 30mins and next thing you know I had no deco so it was obvious. However at the depths your diving it could reboot 15mins into the dive and you could easily not notice.

I also had depth sensor failures that made the deco wrong as well. FOrtunatly they wre blatent so I couldent miss them.

I used to use DOTF to mentally calculate my deco before the ascent just to check the hand set was about right before i went up. Then i got a Shearwater and followed that instead.

Having the two hand sets showing different GFs is an interesting idea. However when i ran a HH i could change the GFs mid dive so I just ran my normal deco (20/85) and then if i needed to Id switch it to something more aggressive for bailout (50/100).

Its the only thing i wish the Shearwater I use now could do.

The HH deco used to get me out OK but it was difficult to have total confidence in it because the TTS was wrong and the stop times were often wrong. I ended up using the Shearwater to control deco and just kept the HH as back up.

Mark Chase · 19th January 2008, 06:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

by setting the GF low at 10, the first stop will be deeper and the depth will be set by what depth my pressures reach 10% of the MV value. Thus My first(deepest) stop be always be offgassing rather than ongassing.

Now, we are havin fun.

By the way, I will try to knock out your spacer tomorrow

You on gas some tisue compartments during deep stops and off gas others.

Deep stops add deco to the dive time

Taking it to an extreem a dive to 100m for 30mins running 10/100GF will have a deco time of 170mins. Same dive running 100/100GF will have a deco of 129min

So doing the deep stops ads 41mins of deco

What deep stops are claimed to do is reduce the over all body stress of so called bend and mend profiles.

If you beleive this then thats up to you

I do but not only for this reasion. I think the Bhulman type profiles dont handle Helium very well. I think you need more emphasis on deep stops when using trimix. So i do a load of deep stops. Its just my atempt at feeling in control

Christ knows if my voodoo is any better than the next blokes

It seems to work OK for me but the more I get into deco diving the more I realise theres a 101 ways to skin a cat.

ATB

Mark

decoweenie · 20th January 2008, 07:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

...(This is why 10/100 is considered so aggressive.)...

Is it really ?

Here is an anecdotal comment...

I have been diving with GF since almost day 1 when it was introduced (i.e. 9 years ?) and have always use 10/100, except for the first year at 20/100.

The diving in the last 5 years have been 90% decompression, minimum 70m (shallowest wreck available) to maximum 120m with long'ish bottom time (i.e. not 1 sec at max depth, but typical of 35-45 mins at 72m).

Never a niggle, never feel sleepy or tired afterward (because I have to drive 3 hours to go home after the dive).

jiseson · 20th January 2008, 11:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Is it really ?

Here is an anecdotal comment...

I have been diving with GF since almost day 1 when it was introduced (i.e. 9 years ?) and have always use 10/100, except for the first year at 20/100.

The diving in the last 5 years have been 90% decompression, minimum 70m (shallowest wreck available) to maximum 120m with long'ish bottom time (i.e. not 1 sec at max depth, but typical of 35-45 mins at 72m).

Never a niggle, never feel sleepy or tired afterward (because I have to drive 3 hours to go home after the dive).

what water temp? how old r u? what shape r u in?

12th December 2007, 13:42	#21 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 512	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by Lilou6) Hello, How did you import the profile on PC ? Not with the HH... Best regards Lilian It's from a Sensus Ultra.... a very small data recorder that can be clipped off or put in a pocket. "Sensus Ultra is ReefNet's third-generation dive data logging device. Building on the strengths of its predecessors, it remains the simplest, most convenient tool for collecting detailed dive log data. Remarkably, it's also the most affordable! Don't let Sensus Ultra's diminutive size (1" x 1.3" x 1.75") fool you. Packed inside are a sophisticated sensor, flash memory and processor capable of storing 1500 hours of dive data with a 10 second sampling interval." ReefNet Inc. \| Sensus Ultra I use one too.... They are inexpensive & a great way to log your dives. It comes with it's own software for Mac or PC. I use a Mac and there is a great third party software package called Dive Log. DiveLog It's a lot more flexible, as far as indexing the dives, than the oem software. Richie
(Online)

12th December 2007, 14:00	#22 (permalink)
Lilou6 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South of the france Posts: 45	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Thanks, Good to know Lilian
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18th January 2008, 01:31	#23 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 891	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) so use the custom GF.. set them both with the same GF-lo and make the secondary with the higher gf high.. (smaller number means deeper initial stops) This last weekend while diving with SCRUBS in Key Largo, I set my primary GF at 25/85 and my secondary at 25/95. The TTS was much more believable, the secondary showed a few minutes less TTS than the primary on all dives. I will probably change the lower GF value to 15 on both handsets. Any thoughts? __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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18th January 2008, 02:11	#24 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,937	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Depends on the dive, mix, time and what theory you want to believe (on that day). With it set so low, you are stopping so deep that you are potentially not even offgassing (ongassing-causing even more deco obligation). If, at the same time, you set the GF high closer to 100, you are then also potentially causing an even higher risk by stopping deeper, ingassing, and then coming very close to the maximum risk at the time of exit. (This is why 10/100 is considered so aggressive.) If you believe in deep stops, and you set the GF low to a low number but the GF high to a number that is farther away from 100 (let's say 85), you are potentially being pretty conservative and covering both ends of the spectrum for risk control (by stopping deep and then exiting the water after extending the shallow stops). However, this is only if you think that the very low GF low is at a stop where you are offgassing sufficiently (rather than still ongassing by stopping too deep). If you believe in deep stops, exactly where do you set the GF low to stop at just the right spot so that you are offgassing, doing a deep stop and not incurring a higher risk? Depends on the depth, time, mix and phase of moon. Are we having fun yet? __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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19th January 2008, 00:07	#25 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 891	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? by setting the GF low at 10, the first stop will be deeper and the depth will be set by what depth my pressures reach 10% of the MV value. Thus My first(deepest) stop be always be offgassing rather than ongassing. Now, we are havin fun. By the way, I will try to knock out your spacer tomorrow __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Offline)

19th January 2008, 05:44	#26 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,937	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? I'd be happy to discuss this at length with you in person, because your answer is both right and wrong depending on which theory you believe. While one set of compartments are at 10 percent, you will continue to ongass in others while hanging out for very, very deep stops. Then, you will have to make additional and longer stops along the way to account for that. You will start to rack up quite a bit of extra stop time. The great debate comes when trying to decide exactly where to draw the line. "Tighten the guitar string too much and it will break. Leave it too loose and it will not play music." (I believe that this is a paraphrase of Siddhartha.) It's all a matter of balance. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com Last edited by ScubaDadMiami : 19th January 2008 at 05:47.
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19th January 2008, 06:15	#27 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? If this happens again check the run time and depth on both hand sets. On my HH it could do a reboot due to the usual contact issues and if it was a one off rather than a repeated event, I might not notice. During the re boot it re set deco to zero. First time i noticed this I had checked my deco and i had about 30mins and next thing you know I had no deco so it was obvious. However at the depths your diving it could reboot 15mins into the dive and you could easily not notice. I also had depth sensor failures that made the deco wrong as well. FOrtunatly they wre blatent so I couldent miss them. I used to use DOTF to mentally calculate my deco before the ascent just to check the hand set was about right before i went up. Then i got a Shearwater and followed that instead. Having the two hand sets showing different GFs is an interesting idea. However when i ran a HH i could change the GFs mid dive so I just ran my normal deco (20/85) and then if i needed to Id switch it to something more aggressive for bailout (50/100). Its the only thing i wish the Shearwater I use now could do. The HH deco used to get me out OK but it was difficult to have total confidence in it because the TTS was wrong and the stop times were often wrong. I ended up using the Shearwater to control deco and just kept the HH as back up. __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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19th January 2008, 06:30	#28 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) by setting the GF low at 10, the first stop will be deeper and the depth will be set by what depth my pressures reach 10% of the MV value. Thus My first(deepest) stop be always be offgassing rather than ongassing. Now, we are havin fun. By the way, I will try to knock out your spacer tomorrow You on gas some tisue compartments during deep stops and off gas others. Deep stops add deco to the dive time Taking it to an extreem a dive to 100m for 30mins running 10/100GF will have a deco time of 170mins. Same dive running 100/100GF will have a deco of 129min So doing the deep stops ads 41mins of deco What deep stops are claimed to do is reduce the over all body stress of so called bend and mend profiles. If you beleive this then thats up to you I do but not only for this reasion. I think the Bhulman type profiles dont handle Helium very well. I think you need more emphasis on deep stops when using trimix. So i do a load of deep stops. Its just my atempt at feeling in control Christ knows if my voodoo is any better than the next blokes It seems to work OK for me but the more I get into deco diving the more I realise theres a 101 ways to skin a cat. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

20th January 2008, 07:18	#29 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) ...(This is why 10/100 is considered so aggressive.)... Is it really ? Here is an anecdotal comment... I have been diving with GF since almost day 1 when it was introduced (i.e. 9 years ?) and have always use 10/100, except for the first year at 20/100. The diving in the last 5 years have been 90% decompression, minimum 70m (shallowest wreck available) to maximum 120m with long'ish bottom time (i.e. not 1 sec at max depth, but typical of 35-45 mins at 72m). Never a niggle, never feel sleepy or tired afterward (because I have to drive 3 hours to go home after the dive).
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20th January 2008, 11:19	#30 (permalink)
jiseson DSIX/O2PTIMA Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island,ny Posts: 454	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Is it really ? Here is an anecdotal comment... I have been diving with GF since almost day 1 when it was introduced (i.e. 9 years ?) and have always use 10/100, except for the first year at 20/100. The diving in the last 5 years have been 90% decompression, minimum 70m (shallowest wreck available) to maximum 120m with long'ish bottom time (i.e. not 1 sec at max depth, but typical of 35-45 mins at 72m). Never a niggle, never feel sleepy or tired afterward (because I have to drive 3 hours to go home after the dive). what water temp? how old r u? what shape r u in? __________________ *Jonathan D Iseson*
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