setting pri and sec handsets differently???

**UWSojourner** · 10th December 2007, 02:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

ignore the TTS numbers, they are wrong ...

Do you know if this was corrected in the new HH eCCR? And the difference in the shown TTS between GF25/85 and GF10/100 is very large for the dive info provided?

diverreb · 10th December 2007, 04:19

The TTS variance was explained to me by Kevin. Let's see if I have can remember it correctly.... The TTS calculations are on going. The stops are rounded to the nearest minute and they had a choice to round up, giving longer than actual TTS being shown or they could have rounded down, which would have shown a shorter time. They chose to round up as it made more sense and in essence what it did was to show longer than actual TTS. The closer you get to the last stop the more accurate the the time becomes, except for the known issue with the one minute at 10' stop that can take three or four minutes to clear. (I think that's only with the older handsets.)

That aside, it still doesn't explain the differences with longer times at a less conservative GF setting.

Richie

***jradomski*** · 10th December 2007, 04:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by UWSojourner)

Do you know if this was corrected in the new HH eCCR? And the difference in the shown TTS between GF25/85 and GF10/100 is very large for the dive info provided?

same software.. the TTS is extremely conservative...

***jradomski*** · 10th December 2007, 04:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

Yesterday I did a dive of 2hr 15min at an average depth of 68'. I have always run my GF at 10/100 and stayed alive (awfully tired and my knees ached that night).
Yesterday I ran my primary GF at 25/85 and my secondary at 10/100. At 1hr 36min into the dive my primary was showing 4min of deco (first stop at 20') and the secondary was showing 38min (first stop at 50').
I set the dil to 21/35 on both handsets. I checked the setting at depth and after the dive. Everthing seems to be right.
Anyway I did the longest deco to be safe (not tired or achy knees last night), but I can't believe that these are right.
I thought that the first number in a GF would put the first stop deeper as the number was smaller. Is this not correct? It seems to me that 10/100 should have had deeper stops and got me out of the water sooner than 25/85.
Any help or advise will be appreciated. I am not a rocket scientist (yet) but I thought that I understood the principals of GF's
Help, I am sooooooo confused.

pleased try and advise the profile as accurately as possible (max depth and avg depth up to the time you looked at the computer).. especially the depth you were at when you looked at your 2 computers..

also unles you always expect to do the deeper stops of the computer with the lower gf low , i would set the 2 gf-lo settings the same..

the discrepency is much larger than I would expect..

pjguyon · 10th December 2007, 13:50

My understanding is the 1st number is for rapid compartments and the 2nd number is for slow compartments. So while your 25 is more conservative than 10, the 85 is less conservative than the 100. Not sure, but even at 70 feet, for a 2 hr plus dive, you would start to fill up your slow compartments, making for longer deco?

I'm pretty new at this sort of thing, so I may not understand this. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks,

**UWSojourner** · 10th December 2007, 17:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by pjguyon)

My understanding is the 1st number is for rapid compartments and the 2nd number is for slow compartments. So while your 25 is more conservative than 10, the 85 is less conservative than the 100. Not sure, but even at 70 feet, for a 2 hr plus dive, you would start to fill up your slow compartments, making for longer deco?

I'm pretty new at this sort of thing, so I may not understand this. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks,

Well, since you asked ...

The GF settings correspond to depth, not compartments.

The low GF is the GF you hit at your first stop (i.e. you stop when you hit a GF with that value). So 10 is more conservative than 25 because you'll stop deeper (assuming you believe deeper 1st stops imply more conservatism).

The high GF is your surfacing GF. So 85 is more conservative than 100 because you surface with a lower tissue tension.

Although you'll hit the low GF in the faster compartments, the high GF might be hit in any compartment depending on the severity of your tissue loadings.

**Dsix36** · 10th December 2007, 22:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

pleased try and advise the profile as accurately as possible (max depth and avg depth up to the time you looked at the computer).. especially the depth you were at when you looked at your 2 computers..

also unles you always expect to do the deeper stops of the computer with the lower gf low , i would set the 2 gf-lo settings the same..

the discrepency is much larger than I would expect..

max depth = 71.65'
avg depth = 52.52'
70' at 1hr 24min when I looked at both handsets

I do like the idea of doing deeper stops. I just want the secondary handset to be set with the least time in water, just in case the brown stuff hits the oscillatting blades.

the attached image will show the profile.

***jradomski*** · 11th December 2007, 03:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

max depth = 71.65'
avg depth = 52.52'
70' at 1hr 24min when I looked at both handsets

I do like the idea of doing deeper stops. I just want the secondary handset to be set with the least time in water, just in case the brown stuff hits the oscillatting blades.

the attached image will show the profile.

so use the custom GF.. set them both with the same GF-lo and make the secondary with the higher gf high.. (smaller number means deeper initial stops)

**Dsix36** · 12th December 2007, 01:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

so use the custom GF.. set them both with the same GF-lo and make the secondary with the higher gf high.. (smaller number means deeper initial stops)

Consider it done. I can't wait for the weekend to try it out

Thanks for your help and advice.
.

Lilou6 · 12th December 2007, 06:43

Hello,

How did you import the profile on PC ? Not with the HH...

Best regards

Lilian

10th December 2007, 02:34	#11 (permalink)
UWSojourner Pacific Northwest Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 556	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) ignore the TTS numbers, they are wrong ... Do you know if this was corrected in the new HH eCCR? And the difference in the shown TTS between GF25/85 and GF10/100 is very large for the dive info provided?
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10th December 2007, 04:19	#12 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 599	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? The TTS variance was explained to me by Kevin. Let's see if I have can remember it correctly.... The TTS calculations are on going. The stops are rounded to the nearest minute and they had a choice to round up, giving longer than actual TTS being shown or they could have rounded down, which would have shown a shorter time. They chose to round up as it made more sense and in essence what it did was to show longer than actual TTS. The closer you get to the last stop the more accurate the the time becomes, except for the known issue with the one minute at 10' stop that can take three or four minutes to clear. (I think that's only with the older handsets.) That aside, it still doesn't explain the differences with longer times at a less conservative GF setting. Richie
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10th December 2007, 04:19	#13 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,011	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by UWSojourner) Do you know if this was corrected in the new HH eCCR? And the difference in the shown TTS between GF25/85 and GF10/100 is very large for the dive info provided? same software.. the TTS is extremely conservative... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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10th December 2007, 04:56	#14 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,011	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) Yesterday I did a dive of 2hr 15min at an average depth of 68'. I have always run my GF at 10/100 and stayed alive (awfully tired and my knees ached that night). Yesterday I ran my primary GF at 25/85 and my secondary at 10/100. At 1hr 36min into the dive my primary was showing 4min of deco (first stop at 20') and the secondary was showing 38min (first stop at 50'). I set the dil to 21/35 on both handsets. I checked the setting at depth and after the dive. Everthing seems to be right. Anyway I did the longest deco to be safe (not tired or achy knees last night), but I can't believe that these are right. I thought that the first number in a GF would put the first stop deeper as the number was smaller. Is this not correct? It seems to me that 10/100 should have had deeper stops and got me out of the water sooner than 25/85. Any help or advise will be appreciated. I am not a rocket scientist (yet) but I thought that I understood the principals of GF's Help, I am sooooooo confused. pleased try and advise the profile as accurately as possible (max depth and avg depth up to the time you looked at the computer).. especially the depth you were at when you looked at your 2 computers.. also unles you always expect to do the deeper stops of the computer with the lower gf low , i would set the 2 gf-lo settings the same.. the discrepency is much larger than I would expect.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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10th December 2007, 13:50	#15 (permalink)
pjguyon New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sorrento, FL Posts: 2	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? My understanding is the 1st number is for rapid compartments and the 2nd number is for slow compartments. So while your 25 is more conservative than 10, the 85 is less conservative than the 100. Not sure, but even at 70 feet, for a 2 hr plus dive, you would start to fill up your slow compartments, making for longer deco? I'm pretty new at this sort of thing, so I may not understand this. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks,
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10th December 2007, 17:48	#16 (permalink)
UWSojourner Pacific Northwest Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 556	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by pjguyon) My understanding is the 1st number is for rapid compartments and the 2nd number is for slow compartments. So while your 25 is more conservative than 10, the 85 is less conservative than the 100. Not sure, but even at 70 feet, for a 2 hr plus dive, you would start to fill up your slow compartments, making for longer deco? I'm pretty new at this sort of thing, so I may not understand this. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks, Well, since you asked ... The GF settings correspond to depth, not compartments. The low GF is the GF you hit at your first stop (i.e. you stop when you hit a GF with that value). So 10 is more conservative than 25 because you'll stop deeper (assuming you believe deeper 1st stops imply more conservatism). The high GF is your surfacing GF. So 85 is more conservative than 100 because you surface with a lower tissue tension. Although you'll hit the low GF in the faster compartments, the high GF might be hit in any compartment depending on the severity of your tissue loadings.
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11th December 2007, 03:06	#18 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,011	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) max depth = 71.65' avg depth = 52.52' 70' at 1hr 24min when I looked at both handsets I do like the idea of doing deeper stops. I just want the secondary handset to be set with the least time in water, just in case the brown stuff hits the oscillatting blades. the attached image will show the profile. so use the custom GF.. set them both with the same GF-lo and make the secondary with the higher gf high.. (smaller number means deeper initial stops) __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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12th December 2007, 01:23	#19 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,062	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) so use the custom GF.. set them both with the same GF-lo and make the secondary with the higher gf high.. (smaller number means deeper initial stops) Consider it done. I can't wait for the weekend to try it out Thanks for your help and advice. . __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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12th December 2007, 06:43	#20 (permalink)
Lilou6 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South of the france Posts: 47	Re: setting pri and sec handsets differently??? Hello, How did you import the profile on PC ? Not with the HH... Best regards Lilian
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