Haskel v baby booster

mdsourou · 21st January 2008, 19:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

Now I see it against that scuba cylinder it’s much smaller than I had first thought, at first I thought the dam thing was over two meters tall!!

I’m Ok you can’t answer the questions, but someone should have worked from the compression ratio first, and also have tested the outlet gas temperature at the very least in order for it not to exceed the ring and seal melting temperatures.

I cannot answer for the Russian designs unless you are again more specific, however the military do allow greater stress in there designs that is why they protect themselves from failure by having a designed operational life expectancy, after which the products are scrapped. Using old military pumps in our industry is just picking up a great risk.

To the original question on the Haskel AGT 30-75 is as the 30-75 is a two stage, booster and it is much better suited to safety by reducing the compression loading on each of the individual stages of compression. The small Jetsam pump has but one advantage in so far that it is so small and the compression stroke low enough that the heat generated etc. etc, so tiny as not to cause much concern, further when these small pumps fail the “teaspoon” of gas in then is little more than a “pop” leaving a black soot. The Haskel 30-75 by comparison uses the huge drive air volume after each compression stroke to cool the piston barrel, a very cleaver idea as they have masses of cooling air to safely bring the gas temperature down thus allowing a greater flow or a greater pressure, or a lower inlet pressure to a higher outlet pressure or all of the above.

This big Cyprus booster is just a single stage, but twin piston unit and by compression from <3 bar to >250 barg and is effectively working on a huge 80:1 plus ratio. As most manufactures would, given the same set of inlet pressure and outlet pressures work on a more conservative 4 stages of compression for oxygen, its by the “maths” 4 times riskier than anything else.

Incidentally this Cyprus pump with oxygen compressing the gas temperature should not get IMHO much above the temperature of hot coffee, and gas temp calc is not the same as the pipe temperature. The gas velocity flow in what I guess 3/8” stainless tubing at high pressure should not IMHO go over 1000 l/min. It IMHO should have never used steel plated fittings in the branch of these pipe tee’s with hot, high pressure oxygen, It’s just asking for trouble.

With oxygen I have a saying to add to these mathematical formula.
“Learn or Burn”. Iain Middlebrook

My friend Iain
I am not planning to put this thing in product. So i dont really mind aout this IMHO. This booster is not registered. Its only hand made. I do feel as many cylinders as i like in time zero. Today i filled 5twins 15, 8 singles 18ltrs and 4 14lts in les than ten minutes. Thats what it counts to me. And guess what, no heat on my baby's pistons cylinders. To get warm must work more than 45 min non stop. So not a big deal for me. Never get hot. Only once when i was filling my 50ltrs one. And if i give it full power, thing that i do it only when the o2 cylinder drop less than 20bars, when its more then 100bar i am 200% that it will explore and im sure it will give me more than 1000ltr per min. When the o2 its full it gives me about 40ltr per stroke. So you can guess. Then if you thing that this booster is small then i dont know what to say. Anyway, people they are very experienced on boosters when they saw it were IMPRESSED.
The main thing for me is that i have spent 200cyp for a booster that i would spend about 15000-20000 if i was gona buy it from a factory.
And now i do another one with douple size pistons but give me max pressure 165bar with a drive air of 9 bars again. BUT i ll be using half of my driven gas of my big one.
Anyway i am using it for 3 years now, without any problems except of changing once my pistons o-rings. So i donthave any reason to worry about anything.

**rigdiver** · 28th January 2008, 19:02

Where can one source the green HP O2 fill hose?

***Beanie*** · 28th January 2008, 19:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by rigdiver)

Where can one source the green HP O2 fill hose?

in the UK Sub-Aqua Products Home Page or Undersea Ltd - Serving the diving industry since 1970 come with 1/4 BSP ends though undersea may do NPT ends but with the $ postage etc would be pricy

21st January 2008, 19:25	#21 (permalink)
mdsourou New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cyprus Posts: 44	Re: Haskel v baby booster Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm) Now I see it against that scuba cylinder it’s much smaller than I had first thought, at first I thought the dam thing was over two meters tall!! I’m Ok you can’t answer the questions, but someone should have worked from the compression ratio first, and also have tested the outlet gas temperature at the very least in order for it not to exceed the ring and seal melting temperatures. I cannot answer for the Russian designs unless you are again more specific, however the military do allow greater stress in there designs that is why they protect themselves from failure by having a designed operational life expectancy, after which the products are scrapped. Using old military pumps in our industry is just picking up a great risk. To the original question on the Haskel AGT 30-75 is as the 30-75 is a two stage, booster and it is much better suited to safety by reducing the compression loading on each of the individual stages of compression. The small Jetsam pump has but one advantage in so far that it is so small and the compression stroke low enough that the heat generated etc. etc, so tiny as not to cause much concern, further when these small pumps fail the “teaspoon” of gas in then is little more than a “pop” leaving a black soot. The Haskel 30-75 by comparison uses the huge drive air volume after each compression stroke to cool the piston barrel, a very cleaver idea as they have masses of cooling air to safely bring the gas temperature down thus allowing a greater flow or a greater pressure, or a lower inlet pressure to a higher outlet pressure or all of the above. This big Cyprus booster is just a single stage, but twin piston unit and by compression from <3 bar to >250 barg and is effectively working on a huge 80:1 plus ratio. As most manufactures would, given the same set of inlet pressure and outlet pressures work on a more conservative 4 stages of compression for oxygen, its by the “maths” 4 times riskier than anything else. Incidentally this Cyprus pump with oxygen compressing the gas temperature should not get IMHO much above the temperature of hot coffee, and gas temp calc is not the same as the pipe temperature. The gas velocity flow in what I guess 3/8” stainless tubing at high pressure should not IMHO go over 1000 l/min. It IMHO should have never used steel plated fittings in the branch of these pipe tee’s with hot, high pressure oxygen, It’s just asking for trouble. With oxygen I have a saying to add to these mathematical formula. “Learn or Burn”. Iain Middlebrook My friend Iain I am not planning to put this thing in product. So i dont really mind aout this IMHO. This booster is not registered. Its only hand made. I do feel as many cylinders as i like in time zero. Today i filled 5twins 15, 8 singles 18ltrs and 4 14lts in les than ten minutes. Thats what it counts to me. And guess what, no heat on my baby's pistons cylinders. To get warm must work more than 45 min non stop. So not a big deal for me. Never get hot. Only once when i was filling my 50ltrs one. And if i give it full power, thing that i do it only when the o2 cylinder drop less than 20bars, when its more then 100bar i am 200% that it will explore and im sure it will give me more than 1000ltr per min. When the o2 its full it gives me about 40ltr per stroke. So you can guess. Then if you thing that this booster is small then i dont know what to say. Anyway, people they are very experienced on boosters when they saw it were IMPRESSED. The main thing for me is that i have spent 200cyp for a booster that i would spend about 15000-20000 if i was gona buy it from a factory. And now i do another one with douple size pistons but give me max pressure 165bar with a drive air of 9 bars again. BUT i ll be using half of my driven gas of my big one. Anyway i am using it for 3 years now, without any problems except of changing once my pistons o-rings. So i donthave any reason to worry about anything.
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28th January 2008, 19:02	#22 (permalink)
rigdiver LEARNING CONTINUALLY Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS Posts: 410	Re: Haskel v baby booster Where can one source the green HP O2 fill hose?
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28th January 2008, 19:45	#23 (permalink)
*Beanie* give a man an inch....... Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,172	Re: Haskel v baby booster Quote: (Originally Posted by rigdiver) Where can one source the green HP O2 fill hose? in the UK Sub-Aqua Products Home Page or Undersea Ltd - Serving the diving industry since 1970 come with 1/4 BSP ends though undersea may do NPT ends but with the $ postage etc would be pricy __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk
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