bauer junior nitrox

**jmurba** · 18th April 2007, 07:21

Hi all,

I am a little bit lost.
I am considering changing my 4m3/h compressor to get a 6m3/h.

The coltri is only rated 4.8m3/h with a 220 V electrical motor.
the bauer junior is rated 6m3/h with the same motor but I was told by the Marseille city dealer in France that the RPM was to important to continuous blend nitrox, where the Nice city Dealer (200km away from marseille) told me that the junior was officialy ok for nitrox up to 40%.....

I don't know who must I believe in....

the coltri is officially suitable for nitrox and has a lower RPM....

well it is a bit boaring to see those differences....

Divertec offers a compressor suitable for nitrox mds technology or I don't know what....but from france in case of a problem who will repair my mds technology...certainely not the local dealers that refuse exotic machines they don't know.... here down on the french riviera they even refuse to repair coltri sub compressors....

all of that is a real pain in the neck....grrrrr

any idea ?

regards

jean mi

Barrie Law · 18th April 2007, 09:58

Hi Jean,

The only manufacturer who gives a written permission for Nitrox use is Coltri Sub up to 40%.

I have never seen any documentation from any other manufacturer for any % of Nitrox use.

Attached you will find the ISO9001;2000 Certifications.

Below is the letter from Claudio Coltri from Coltri Sub;

To whom it may concern,

Following your request for written confirmation that our range of compressors is suitable for compressing Nitrox, please find the following for your consideration.

Aerotecnica Coltri Sub design high pressure compressors that are built to the highest standards in line with our ISO 9001:2000 Quality Management Systems.
Our compressors are certified to compress Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox) up to 40%, limited to a maximum pressure of 250 Bar for any mixtures greater 21%.

Whilst we recommend that our compressors are matched to our Nitrox Membrane Systems that supply ambient ‘permeate’ to slightly negative pressure into our Patented Mixing Tube, where it mixes homogeneously with filtered outside air to create Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox), then compressed, we must emphasize that other delivery systems may be used that produce Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox).
Delivery systems other than those supplied by Aerotecnica Coltri Sub must ensure that they are able to mix the different gases correctly to avoid potentially dangerous situations. No concentrations of Oxygen (O2) must ever exceed 40% when being supplied to the compressor intake.

It should be noted; our range of HP compressors should be operated only if in good mechanical condition and are using the recommended high performance synthetic lubricant recommended by Coltri Sub, Coltri Oil CE750. It is recommended that any existing machine undergoes a thorough service and oil change before use.

The compressor operator must be trained, must read and understand the entire compressor and nitrox system manual and operate everything as per recommendations in the manual.

Best regards,

Claudio Coltri

Johnny Christensen · 18th April 2007, 10:33

Good info. Thank's for sharing that.

**jmurba** · 18th April 2007, 13:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law)

Hi Jean,

The only manufacturer who gives a written permission for Nitrox use is Coltri Sub up to 40%.

I have never seen any documentation from any other manufacturer for any % of Nitrox use.

Attached you will find the ISO9001;2000 Certifications.

Below is the letter from Claudio Coltri from Coltri Sub;

To whom it may concern,

Following your request for written confirmation that our range of compressors is suitable for compressing Nitrox, please find the following for your consideration.

Aerotecnica Coltri Sub design high pressure compressors that are built to the highest standards in line with our ISO 9001:2000 Quality Management Systems.
Our compressors are certified to compress Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox) up to 40%, limited to a maximum pressure of 250 Bar for any mixtures greater 21%.

Whilst we recommend that our compressors are matched to our Nitrox Membrane Systems that supply ambient ‘permeate’ to slightly negative pressure into our Patented Mixing Tube, where it mixes homogeneously with filtered outside air to create Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox), then compressed, we must emphasize that other delivery systems may be used that produce Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox).
Delivery systems other than those supplied by Aerotecnica Coltri Sub must ensure that they are able to mix the different gases correctly to avoid potentially dangerous situations. No concentrations of Oxygen (O2) must ever exceed 40% when being supplied to the compressor intake.

It should be noted; our range of HP compressors should be operated only if in good mechanical condition and are using the recommended high performance synthetic lubricant recommended by Coltri Sub, Coltri Oil CE750. It is recommended that any existing machine undergoes a thorough service and oil change before use.

The compressor operator must be trained, must read and understand the entire compressor and nitrox system manual and operate everything as per recommendations in the manual.

Best regards,

Claudio Coltri

Hi Barry,
as a matter of fact having explored the all bauer web site there is absolutly no trace of a statment concerning the possibility of blending nitrox with their compressors....
coltri is not the only one stating that his compressor is able to mix nitrox, the mps is stated on your web as being able to compress nitox 60%
but bauer says not...
I don't want to get in the coltri Vs bauer argument, it is like cars... one day you given your preference to a brand and it becoms a long history of fidelity (((-:
to be fair, I was finaly told that nitrox 40 was not a problem for the junio in good conditions, 2 hours a day max, compressor in a well ventilated place.. they wrote it to me and I printed the mail (((-:
so now I have all to make a decision and I am still hesitating mainly for the possibility of getting parts and service easily from local companies that here generaly refuse to work on a coltri certainement because they are jalous of the low prices....
coltri for the price and official nitrox 40 compatibiliy, bauer for the reputation and reliability, mps for the high nitrox rate and low rpm, rix for extreme gaz purity.........difficult fir a consumer to make a decision....

regards

jean mi

Barrie Law · 18th April 2007, 14:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

Hi Barry,
as a matter of fact having explored the all bauer web site there is absolutly no trace of a statment concerning the possibility of blending nitrox with their compressors....
coltri is not the only one stating that his compressor is able to mix nitrox, the mps is stated on your web as being able to compress nitox 60%
but bauer says not...
I don't want to get in the coltri Vs bauer argument, it is like cars... one day you given your preference to a brand and it becoms a long history of fidelity (((-:
to be fair, I was finaly told that nitrox 40 was not a problem for the junio in good conditions, 2 hours a day max, compressor in a well ventilated place.. they wrote it to me and I printed the mail (((-:
so now I have all to make a decision and I am still hesitating mainly for the possibility of getting parts and service easily from local companies that here generaly refuse to work on a coltri certainement because they are jalous of the low prices....
coltri for the price and official nitrox 40 compatibiliy, bauer for the reputation and reliability, mps for the high nitrox rate and low rpm, rix for extreme gaz purity.........difficult fir a consumer to make a decision....

regards

jean mi

Hi Jean,

To clarify MPS do not manufacturer a compressor they modify existing units and the units rated for 60% Nitrox are very expensive due to the modifications required and as a result I have sold very few of these compressors most divers are happy with the 40% rating offered from Coltri Sub along with the affordable cost for consumables and spare parts into the future.

So I believe I am correct in saying Coltri Sub are the only manufacturers who stand over there compressor for 40% Nitrox use and issues a written document to that effect.

The decision to buy one model or another is a personal thing and I hope you understand I am giving you some details I have that may help with your decision process but I to went along this road a few years ago and I am more than happy to distribute and recommend Coltri Sub compressors for Nitrox use.

Nb. The smaller MCH6 electric compressors require very little maintenance and providing you change the oil and filters regularly there is very little maintenance required.

Regards

Philippe GERIN · 18th April 2007, 15:26

Barrie,
Thanks for the info and experience sharing. Very helpfull.
Get some green.
Best
Philippe

ntokyo · 18th April 2007, 23:10

I have a Bauer Junior II and blend nitrox (under 40%) more than 3 years, no problem at all. Bauer even supplied me the synthetic oil for it.
On the manual, Nitrox is not mentioned. Helium is mentionned.

I would recommend the Junior for its robustness. No issue for Nitrox for me. I am very happy with it.

iain-hsm · 19th April 2007, 05:52

Claudio

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN
There are three points in this Coltri letter I am concerned about.

It is inaccurate
It is misleading
It contains a dangerous precedent

I would also look at a similar misleading CE certification with another Italian (Submex) product for a similar Italian “take” on the CE directive.

Quote: Our compressors are certified to compress Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox) up to 40%, limited to a maximum pressure of 250 Bar for any mixtures greater 21%.

Certified by who and to what standard, Better yet please disclose what they were TESTED to.
This 40% operating limit you state would require even with a moderate safety margin say an 80% oxygen test. First with a brand new “tight” compressor, then with a worn non serviced unit.

Sadly I suspect that your 40% operating maximum is also your tested maximum.

Further the CE certificate shown is for the manufacture of breathing AIR compressors wet suits and other sports equipment. There is no mention of gases other than air or indeed a gas containing a percentage of oxygen greater than 21% (Nitrox) or indeed oxygen.

The assumption that Coltri is the only company “certifying” Nitrox is misleading . At present in EU the position is clear. Any gas with a percentage of oxygen greater than 23% shall be classed as Oxygen and Oxygen is “use no Oil”. I would suggest that the “other companies” see no defence in selling an air compressor as being Nitrox suitable when it was never designed for such purpose in the first place.

Quote: Delivery systems other than those supplied by Aerotecnica Coltri Sub must ensure that they are able to mix the different gases correctly to avoid potentially dangerous situations

This is where the unsuitability of this system is highlighted as it does not FAIL SAFE.
A potential oxygen enriched fire, with oil lubrication now has now become an explosion.

It seems to me incredibly fortuitous that these standard air compressors with no additions or stated modifications are some how now suitable for nitrox any more than some other poor designed sport diving related products.

The fact that these compressors use oil albeit with a moderately higher flash point than normal synthetic diester , about 50C higher, the temperature of a cup of hot coffee. Hides the fact that there is a potential of a flash fire.

Quote: The recommended high performance synthetic lubricant recommended by Coltri Sub, Coltri Oil CE750.

Please state the auto ignition temperature of this oil against a standard diester.

Quote: The compressor operator must be trained, and operate everything as per recommendations in the manual.

This sounds like the get out clause. As a lot of things, it is in the detail of the letter. No doubt the manual states “in a good condition” and must be serviced. Oil and elevated oxygen concentrations are the dangerous precedent.

Quote: The compressor operator must be trained, must read and understand the entire compressor and nitrox system.

To this I agree hence in the spirit of understanding I look forward to your reply.

**jmurba** · 19th April 2007, 08:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by ntokyo)

I have a Bauer Junior II and blend nitrox (under 40%) more than 3 years, no problem at all. Bauer even supplied me the synthetic oil for it.
On the manual, Nitrox is not mentioned. Helium is mentionned.

I would recommend the Junior for its robustness. No issue for Nitrox for me. I am very happy with it.

what do they say about helium ?
thanks

**jmurba** · 19th April 2007, 08:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

Claudio

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN
There are three points in this Coltri letter I am concerned about.

It is inaccurate
It is misleading
It contains a dangerous precedent

I would also look at a similar misleading CE certification with another Italian (Submex) product for a similar Italian “take” on the CE directive.

Quote: Our compressors are certified to compress Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox) up to 40%, limited to a maximum pressure of 250 Bar for any mixtures greater 21%.

Certified by who and to what standard, Better yet please disclose what they were TESTED to.
This 40% operating limit you state would require even with a moderate safety margin say an 80% oxygen test. First with a brand new “tight” compressor, then with a worn non serviced unit.

Sadly I suspect that your 40% operating maximum is also your tested maximum.

Further the CE certificate shown is for the manufacture of breathing AIR compressors wet suits and other sports equipment. There is no mention of gases other than air or indeed a gas containing a percentage of oxygen greater than 21% (Nitrox) or indeed oxygen.

The assumption that Coltri is the only company “certifying” Nitrox is misleading . At present in EU the position is clear. Any gas with a percentage of oxygen greater than 23% shall be classed as Oxygen and Oxygen is “use no Oil”. I would suggest that the “other companies” see no defence in selling an air compressor as being Nitrox suitable when it was never designed for such purpose in the first place.

Quote: Delivery systems other than those supplied by Aerotecnica Coltri Sub must ensure that they are able to mix the different gases correctly to avoid potentially dangerous situations

This is where the unsuitability of this system is highlighted as it does not FAIL SAFE.
A potential oxygen enriched fire, with oil lubrication now has now become an explosion.

It seems to me incredibly fortuitous that these standard air compressors with no additions or stated modifications are some how now suitable for nitrox any more than some other poor designed sport diving related products.

The fact that these compressors use oil albeit with a moderately higher flash point than normal synthetic diester , about 50C higher, the temperature of a cup of hot coffee. Hides the fact that there is a potential of a flash fire.

Quote: The recommended high performance synthetic lubricant recommended by Coltri Sub, Coltri Oil CE750.

Please state the auto ignition temperature of this oil against a standard diester.

Quote: The compressor operator must be trained, and operate everything as per recommendations in the manual.

This sounds like the get out clause. As a lot of things, it is in the detail of the letter. No doubt the manual states “in a good condition” and must be serviced. Oil and elevated oxygen concentrations are the dangerous precedent.

Quote: The compressor operator must be trained, must read and understand the entire compressor and nitrox system.

To this I agree hence in the spirit of understanding I look forward to your reply.

The thing is that compressor maker other then coltri prefer to say no nitrox officialy had let other guys say yes ok if you pay attention to température etc etc...
at least we can say that coltri has the courage to state ok pass nitrox in our compressor where risk and bauer say no nitrox and let say the teck divers you can do it in certain conditions...
so thanks to coltri.
as for the fake certification , not all the italian companies get fake certifications,
regards
jean mi

18th April 2007, 07:21	#1 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 861	bauer junior nitrox Hi all, I am a little bit lost. I am considering changing my 4m3/h compressor to get a 6m3/h. The coltri is only rated 4.8m3/h with a 220 V electrical motor. the bauer junior is rated 6m3/h with the same motor but I was told by the Marseille city dealer in France that the RPM was to important to continuous blend nitrox, where the Nice city Dealer (200km away from marseille) told me that the junior was officialy ok for nitrox up to 40%..... I don't know who must I believe in.... the coltri is officially suitable for nitrox and has a lower RPM.... well it is a bit boaring to see those differences.... Divertec offers a compressor suitable for nitrox mds technology or I don't know what....but from france in case of a problem who will repair my mds technology...certainely not the local dealers that refuse exotic machines they don't know.... here down on the french riviera they even refuse to repair coltri sub compressors.... all of that is a real pain in the neck....grrrrr any idea ? regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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18th April 2007, 10:33	#3 (permalink)
Johnny Christensen Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 304	Re: bauer junior nitrox Good info. Thank's for sharing that. __________________ www.johnnychristensen.com Wreckphotography from the cold north
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18th April 2007, 13:47	#4 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 861	Re: bauer junior nitrox Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law) Hi Jean, The only manufacturer who gives a written permission for Nitrox use is Coltri Sub up to 40%. I have never seen any documentation from any other manufacturer for any % of Nitrox use. Attached you will find the ISO9001;2000 Certifications. Below is the letter from Claudio Coltri from Coltri Sub; To whom it may concern, Following your request for written confirmation that our range of compressors is suitable for compressing Nitrox, please find the following for your consideration. Aerotecnica Coltri Sub design high pressure compressors that are built to the highest standards in line with our ISO 9001:2000 Quality Management Systems. Our compressors are certified to compress Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox) up to 40%, limited to a maximum pressure of 250 Bar for any mixtures greater 21%. Whilst we recommend that our compressors are matched to our Nitrox Membrane Systems that supply ambient ‘permeate’ to slightly negative pressure into our Patented Mixing Tube, where it mixes homogeneously with filtered outside air to create Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox), then compressed, we must emphasize that other delivery systems may be used that produce Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox). Delivery systems other than those supplied by Aerotecnica Coltri Sub must ensure that they are able to mix the different gases correctly to avoid potentially dangerous situations. No concentrations of Oxygen (O2) must ever exceed 40% when being supplied to the compressor intake. It should be noted; our range of HP compressors should be operated only if in good mechanical condition and are using the recommended high performance synthetic lubricant recommended by Coltri Sub, Coltri Oil CE750. It is recommended that any existing machine undergoes a thorough service and oil change before use. The compressor operator must be trained, must read and understand the entire compressor and nitrox system manual and operate everything as per recommendations in the manual. Best regards, Claudio Coltri Hi Barry, as a matter of fact having explored the all bauer web site there is absolutly no trace of a statment concerning the possibility of blending nitrox with their compressors.... coltri is not the only one stating that his compressor is able to mix nitrox, the mps is stated on your web as being able to compress nitox 60% but bauer says not... I don't want to get in the coltri Vs bauer argument, it is like cars... one day you given your preference to a brand and it becoms a long history of fidelity (((-: to be fair, I was finaly told that nitrox 40 was not a problem for the junio in good conditions, 2 hours a day max, compressor in a well ventilated place.. they wrote it to me and I printed the mail (((-: so now I have all to make a decision and I am still hesitating mainly for the possibility of getting parts and service easily from local companies that here generaly refuse to work on a coltri certainement because they are jalous of the low prices.... coltri for the price and official nitrox 40 compatibiliy, bauer for the reputation and reliability, mps for the high nitrox rate and low rpm, rix for extreme gaz purity.........difficult fir a consumer to make a decision.... regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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18th April 2007, 14:39	#5 (permalink)
Barrie Law RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 459	Re: bauer junior nitrox Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) Hi Barry, as a matter of fact having explored the all bauer web site there is absolutly no trace of a statment concerning the possibility of blending nitrox with their compressors.... coltri is not the only one stating that his compressor is able to mix nitrox, the mps is stated on your web as being able to compress nitox 60% but bauer says not... I don't want to get in the coltri Vs bauer argument, it is like cars... one day you given your preference to a brand and it becoms a long history of fidelity (((-: to be fair, I was finaly told that nitrox 40 was not a problem for the junio in good conditions, 2 hours a day max, compressor in a well ventilated place.. they wrote it to me and I printed the mail (((-: so now I have all to make a decision and I am still hesitating mainly for the possibility of getting parts and service easily from local companies that here generaly refuse to work on a coltri certainement because they are jalous of the low prices.... coltri for the price and official nitrox 40 compatibiliy, bauer for the reputation and reliability, mps for the high nitrox rate and low rpm, rix for extreme gaz purity.........difficult fir a consumer to make a decision.... regards jean mi Hi Jean, To clarify MPS do not manufacturer a compressor they modify existing units and the units rated for 60% Nitrox are very expensive due to the modifications required and as a result I have sold very few of these compressors most divers are happy with the 40% rating offered from Coltri Sub along with the affordable cost for consumables and spare parts into the future. So I believe I am correct in saying Coltri Sub are the only manufacturers who stand over there compressor for 40% Nitrox use and issues a written document to that effect. The decision to buy one model or another is a personal thing and I hope you understand I am giving you some details I have that may help with your decision process but I to went along this road a few years ago and I am more than happy to distribute and recommend Coltri Sub compressors for Nitrox use. Nb. The smaller MCH6 electric compressors require very little maintenance and providing you change the oil and filters regularly there is very little maintenance required. Regards __________________ Barrie Law Rebreather World Store Supplying the Rebreather World Tel:US +19548403892 Fax:US+19543333792 Tel:EU+442071930496 Fax:EU+442077606344 Mobile+353876880628 Skype:barrielaw Email: barrie@rebreatherworldstore.com
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18th April 2007, 15:26	#6 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 636	Re: bauer junior nitrox Barrie, Thanks for the info and experience sharing. Very helpfull. Get some green. Best Philippe
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18th April 2007, 23:10	#7 (permalink)
ntokyo New Member Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 90	Re: bauer junior nitrox I have a Bauer Junior II and blend nitrox (under 40%) more than 3 years, no problem at all. Bauer even supplied me the synthetic oil for it. On the manual, Nitrox is not mentioned. Helium is mentionned. I would recommend the Junior for its robustness. No issue for Nitrox for me. I am very happy with it.
(Offline)

19th April 2007, 05:52	#8 (permalink)
iain-hsm Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Loughborough England uk Posts: 347	Re: bauer junior nitrox Claudio TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN There are three points in this Coltri letter I am concerned about. It is inaccurate It is misleading It contains a dangerous precedent I would also look at a similar misleading CE certification with another Italian (Submex) product for a similar Italian “take” on the CE directive. Quote: Our compressors are certified to compress Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox) up to 40%, limited to a maximum pressure of 250 Bar for any mixtures greater 21%. Certified by who and to what standard, Better yet please disclose what they were TESTED to. This 40% operating limit you state would require even with a moderate safety margin say an 80% oxygen test. First with a brand new “tight” compressor, then with a worn non serviced unit. Sadly I suspect that your 40% operating maximum is also your tested maximum. Further the CE certificate shown is for the manufacture of breathing AIR compressors wet suits and other sports equipment. There is no mention of gases other than air or indeed a gas containing a percentage of oxygen greater than 21% (Nitrox) or indeed oxygen. The assumption that Coltri is the only company “certifying” Nitrox is misleading . At present in EU the position is clear. Any gas with a percentage of oxygen greater than 23% shall be classed as Oxygen and Oxygen is “use no Oil”. I would suggest that the “other companies” see no defence in selling an air compressor as being Nitrox suitable when it was never designed for such purpose in the first place. Quote: Delivery systems other than those supplied by Aerotecnica Coltri Sub must ensure that they are able to mix the different gases correctly to avoid potentially dangerous situations This is where the unsuitability of this system is highlighted as it does not FAIL SAFE. A potential oxygen enriched fire, with oil lubrication now has now become an explosion. It seems to me incredibly fortuitous that these standard air compressors with no additions or stated modifications are some how now suitable for nitrox any more than some other poor designed sport diving related products. The fact that these compressors use oil albeit with a moderately higher flash point than normal synthetic diester , about 50C higher, the temperature of a cup of hot coffee. Hides the fact that there is a potential of a flash fire. Quote: The recommended high performance synthetic lubricant recommended by Coltri Sub, Coltri Oil CE750. Please state the auto ignition temperature of this oil against a standard diester. Quote: The compressor operator must be trained, and operate everything as per recommendations in the manual. This sounds like the get out clause. As a lot of things, it is in the detail of the letter. No doubt the manual states “in a good condition” and must be serviced. Oil and elevated oxygen concentrations are the dangerous precedent. Quote: The compressor operator must be trained, must read and understand the entire compressor and nitrox system. To this I agree hence in the spirit of understanding I look forward to your reply.
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19th April 2007, 08:44	#9 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 861	Re: bauer junior nitrox Quote: (Originally Posted by ntokyo) I have a Bauer Junior II and blend nitrox (under 40%) more than 3 years, no problem at all. Bauer even supplied me the synthetic oil for it. On the manual, Nitrox is not mentioned. Helium is mentionned. I would recommend the Junior for its robustness. No issue for Nitrox for me. I am very happy with it. what do they say about helium ? thanks __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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19th April 2007, 08:55	#10 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 861	Re: bauer junior nitrox Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm) Claudio TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN There are three points in this Coltri letter I am concerned about. It is inaccurate It is misleading It contains a dangerous precedent I would also look at a similar misleading CE certification with another Italian (Submex) product for a similar Italian “take” on the CE directive. Quote: Our compressors are certified to compress Oxygen-rich Air (Nitrox) up to 40%, limited to a maximum pressure of 250 Bar for any mixtures greater 21%. Certified by who and to what standard, Better yet please disclose what they were TESTED to. This 40% operating limit you state would require even with a moderate safety margin say an 80% oxygen test. First with a brand new “tight” compressor, then with a worn non serviced unit. Sadly I suspect that your 40% operating maximum is also your tested maximum. Further the CE certificate shown is for the manufacture of breathing AIR compressors wet suits and other sports equipment. There is no mention of gases other than air or indeed a gas containing a percentage of oxygen greater than 21% (Nitrox) or indeed oxygen. The assumption that Coltri is the only company “certifying” Nitrox is misleading . At present in EU the position is clear. Any gas with a percentage of oxygen greater than 23% shall be classed as Oxygen and Oxygen is “use no Oil”. I would suggest that the “other companies” see no defence in selling an air compressor as being Nitrox suitable when it was never designed for such purpose in the first place. Quote: Delivery systems other than those supplied by Aerotecnica Coltri Sub must ensure that they are able to mix the different gases correctly to avoid potentially dangerous situations This is where the unsuitability of this system is highlighted as it does not FAIL SAFE. A potential oxygen enriched fire, with oil lubrication now has now become an explosion. It seems to me incredibly fortuitous that these standard air compressors with no additions or stated modifications are some how now suitable for nitrox any more than some other poor designed sport diving related products. The fact that these compressors use oil albeit with a moderately higher flash point than normal synthetic diester , about 50C higher, the temperature of a cup of hot coffee. Hides the fact that there is a potential of a flash fire. Quote: The recommended high performance synthetic lubricant recommended by Coltri Sub, Coltri Oil CE750. Please state the auto ignition temperature of this oil against a standard diester. Quote: The compressor operator must be trained, and operate everything as per recommendations in the manual. This sounds like the get out clause. As a lot of things, it is in the detail of the letter. No doubt the manual states “in a good condition” and must be serviced. Oil and elevated oxygen concentrations are the dangerous precedent. Quote: The compressor operator must be trained, must read and understand the entire compressor and nitrox system. To this I agree hence in the spirit of understanding I look forward to your reply. The thing is that compressor maker other then coltri prefer to say no nitrox officialy had let other guys say yes ok if you pay attention to température etc etc... at least we can say that coltri has the courage to state ok pass nitrox in our compressor where risk and bauer say no nitrox and let say the teck divers you can do it in certain conditions... so thanks to coltri. as for the fake certification , not all the italian companies get fake certifications, regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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