Megalodon over Ouroboros

silent running · 30th November 2006, 08:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by richc)

What's the issue over WOB with the Boris? It's CE approved so surely must meet requirements for WOB?

Rich

Hello Rich, don't know what the specifics of the CE WOB specs are. But a back mount CL unit will not breathe as easy as properly designed unit with OTS lungs and a radial scrubber, in all positions. -Andy

iani · 30th November 2006, 08:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by richc)

What's the issue over WOB with the Boris? It's CE approved so surely must meet requirements for WOB?

Rich

The WOB on boris is fine, I wouldn't want to use it swimming on my back but then I can't recall ever seeing a CCR diver swimming on their back so I don't see this as an issue. The lack of chest clutter is a big improvement and having the C/L's protected within the case is a big plus.

I would second Jerome's comments about CCRB support, the factory have been excellent around my issues with all the repairs being FOC. I wouldn't go for a Meg as I wouldn't want to send it to the US for repair and the lack of a CE pass is also a concern.

Ian

silent running · 30th November 2006, 08:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by DrJM)

Sounds like someone who never dived a Boris

the WOB is as good as a Mk15.5 you know that breather that the army use since two decades

C'mon get a life (underwater) and not behind a keyboard

Jerome

Jerome, it's not fair to pick on me just because I've been out of the water for months and can't go diving again until January...

No, I've not dived a Boris, but I have spent lots of hrs on the Drager and a few on the CK. I'm sure Boris breathes well for a BMCL unit, but for my type of diving, BMCLs are not the best. It's not some radical opinion, Ron also prefers the low WOB of OTS CLs and he has tried Boris... -Andy

Mark Chase · 30th November 2006, 09:12

There are all crap to be honest.

The Boris is what it is. An expedition CCR in the making. Meaning its not finished yet but when it is I have a feeling it will be epic. Just a few niggles to sort out.

But i would never get one. Why?

Because its too heavy, the worst possible CCR to travel with, I don't like the configuration of the tanks that makes it difficult to use with what ever is available. its too expensive for me, you cant have a spare head for those anoying first dive of the trip failures and frankly to me 100m is f in deep and I don't really need such a hard core tool.

The Meg

The best ECCR travel unit out there today. A fantastic design. Honed from granite and designed to knock down brick sh#t houses, but I wouldn't buy one

WHY:

It doesn't have a modern control system yet.

The fall out with Sherewater has left it in limbo and we are all waiting for the APex3 head to come on the market. (Or will it be the deep life??). As a result you can by the equivalent of an Inspo Classic head or a Kiss type head. If that your bag than this is the CCR for you. I refuse to buy a meg and immediately stick an aftermarket Shearwater head on it

The solid as a rock reliability claim is not supported by my experience with the two meg divers on our boat. a couple of jammed solenoids, micro switch failures, problems with the loom and thats in one year. However they are both on the Sherewater Head. We have had dives missed on the Meg and the Vision in equal measure and we have had Vision units that have never failed.

Lets see the Apex 3 head in action and THEN i will give serious consideration to the Meg.

However if you need a unit today right now than your in trouble. The Vision is going through the final (we hope) stages of debugging and needs a lot of modification until its as user friendly as the Meg, the Meg is a set point only system and the Boris frankly doesn't enter into the equation for me.

As a result i am sitting on my cheep as chips Classic ( apparently built out of tissue paper and sticky back plastic, that strangely has never ever broken weeeeeelll ever) with Hammerhead controller (with its known problem that hopefully is now fixed) and waiting until the dust settles. Presently I am waiting for the Deep life and the Apex three. Mind you if the HH problems are fixed i might just stick with that as its on a par with the Vision and the Shearwater heads

ATB

Mark Chase

***schford*** · 30th November 2006, 09:26

When I saw this I almost groaned :-) and could just see conflicting view points and was praying no arguments popped out....

Well any how let me chip in with my thoughts.

Both units have their pros and cons - we all know there is no perfect Rebreather - though I do note that decodiver actually owns both units so they must each have something uniquely good going for them

Meg +

Modular
Easy to Travel With
Configure it how you want
Very Robust
Multi Scrubber Options

Meg -

Clutterd front area
No built in deco from factory
HUD operation disliked by some

Boris +

Most sophisticated electronics in the world
Designed for Expedition Deep Diving
Clear front
Multi Redundant Electronics
Best Performing & tested scrubber for deep dives in the world
CE Approved

Boris -

Bloody Big
Increased WOB with rear mounted lungs (I believe a noted exception under CE tests - eg it does not achieve pass mark as per Inspiration etc)
One Size fits all
Expensive

In terms of location of makers people always blow that completely out of proportion in my book - eg if I fedex something to America it takes 1 day, if I post it to Portsmouth it takes 1 day. I would not use makers location as basis for anything.

In terms of quality of support - I would say you con not beat either manufacturer either.

Heheheh my views probably dont help do they!

iani · 30th November 2006, 09:38

[quote=schford;80915]

In terms of location of makers people always blow that completely out of proportion in my book - eg if I fedex something to America it takes 1 day, if I post it to Portsmouth it takes 1 day. I would not use makers location as basis for anything.

In terms of quality of support - I would say you con not beat either manufacturer either.

quote]

The proximitiy of maker means a lot to me, I can drive my unit to the factory and have it home again the same day (twice already). As for the WOB issue, this does only seem to be raised by those who haven't dived the unit, the exception covers two planes AIUI, on your back and on your side, we don't dive like this!

Ian

***Decodiver*** · 30th November 2006, 09:45

I'm not going to help either........

They are both excellent CCRs, I know because I own and regularly dive both.

I cannot notice any WOB changes when changing between units, both breathe like an absolute dream.

Yes the Boris is bigger than some units, CCRB support is exemplary as is that of ISC.

Whenever I need to speak to the people who designed and engineered these units, I pick up the phone and we talk.

I deco on VR3s so the lack of onboard deco on the Meg is not a limiting factor for me, I wish the Boris had a Smithers mode HUD incorporated into what is an already excellent HUD.

If I travel by air the Meg gets packed, if I travel by car I bring both units, because I often change from one unit to the next over a diving trip.

Both are great, you will always find people with preferences for one or the other.

I am not like that, I love them both!

If anyone in Europe wants to try out either unit and compare them please get in-touch I will be very happy to assist.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

**Steve** · 30th November 2006, 09:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

When I saw this I almost groaned :-) and could just see conflicting view points and was praying no arguments popped out....

he he. Well try this on for size.

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Best Performing & tested scrubber for deep dives in the world

The Meg radial absolutely blew it out of the water.

"Yeah Yeah, show me the test data" I can hear the carping from here. Well it hasn't been released yet and you will just have to take my word for it.

Seriously though, I was surprised with how well it went. Steve liked the numbers a lot

richc · 30th November 2006, 09:48

[quote=iani;80918]

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

The proximitiy of maker means a lot to me, I can drive my unit to the factory and have it home again the same day (twice already). As for the WOB issue, this does only seem to be raised by those who haven't dived the unit, the exception covers two planes AIUI, on your back and on your side, we don't dive like this!

Ian

I agree. I have no issue over WOB on my Boris.

Cheers

Rich

DrJM · 30th November 2006, 10:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

I wish the Boris had a Smithers mode HUD incorporated into

What is it ?

Qu'est ce que c'est ?

Merci

Jerome

30th November 2006, 08:47	#11 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,814	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros Quote: (Originally Posted by richc) What's the issue over WOB with the Boris? It's CE approved so surely must meet requirements for WOB? Rich Hello Rich, don't know what the specifics of the CE WOB specs are. But a back mount CL unit will not breathe as easy as properly designed unit with OTS lungs and a radial scrubber, in all positions. -Andy
(Online)

30th November 2006, 08:49	#12 (permalink)
iani Nefarious Activist Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Middlesex, UK Posts: 334	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros Quote: (Originally Posted by richc) What's the issue over WOB with the Boris? It's CE approved so surely must meet requirements for WOB? Rich The WOB on boris is fine, I wouldn't want to use it swimming on my back but then I can't recall ever seeing a CCR diver swimming on their back so I don't see this as an issue. The lack of chest clutter is a big improvement and having the C/L's protected within the case is a big plus. I would second Jerome's comments about CCRB support, the factory have been excellent around my issues with all the repairs being FOC. I wouldn't go for a Meg as I wouldn't want to send it to the US for repair and the lack of a CE pass is also a concern. Ian
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30th November 2006, 08:59	#13 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,814	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros Quote: (Originally Posted by DrJM) Sounds like someone who never dived a Boris the WOB is as good as a Mk15.5 you know that breather that the army use since two decades C'mon get a life (underwater) and not behind a keyboard Jerome Jerome, it's not fair to pick on me just because I've been out of the water for months and can't go diving again until January... No, I've not dived a Boris, but I have spent lots of hrs on the Drager and a few on the CK. I'm sure Boris breathes well for a BMCL unit, but for my type of diving, BMCLs are not the best. It's not some radical opinion, Ron also prefers the low WOB of OTS CLs and he has tried Boris... -Andy
(Online)

30th November 2006, 09:12	#14 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,564	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros There are all crap to be honest. The Boris is what it is. An expedition CCR in the making. Meaning its not finished yet but when it is I have a feeling it will be epic. Just a few niggles to sort out. But i would never get one. Why? Because its too heavy, the worst possible CCR to travel with, I don't like the configuration of the tanks that makes it difficult to use with what ever is available. its too expensive for me, you cant have a spare head for those anoying first dive of the trip failures and frankly to me 100m is f in deep and I don't really need such a hard core tool. The Meg The best ECCR travel unit out there today. A fantastic design. Honed from granite and designed to knock down brick sh#t houses, but I wouldn't buy one WHY: It doesn't have a modern control system yet. The fall out with Sherewater has left it in limbo and we are all waiting for the APex3 head to come on the market. (Or will it be the deep life??). As a result you can by the equivalent of an Inspo Classic head or a Kiss type head. If that your bag than this is the CCR for you. I refuse to buy a meg and immediately stick an aftermarket Shearwater head on it The solid as a rock reliability claim is not supported by my experience with the two meg divers on our boat. a couple of jammed solenoids, micro switch failures, problems with the loom and thats in one year. However they are both on the Sherewater Head. We have had dives missed on the Meg and the Vision in equal measure and we have had Vision units that have never failed. Lets see the Apex 3 head in action and THEN i will give serious consideration to the Meg. However if you need a unit today right now than your in trouble. The Vision is going through the final (we hope) stages of debugging and needs a lot of modification until its as user friendly as the Meg, the Meg is a set point only system and the Boris frankly doesn't enter into the equation for me. As a result i am sitting on my cheep as chips Classic ( apparently built out of tissue paper and sticky back plastic, that strangely has never ever broken weeeeeelll ever) with Hammerhead controller (with its known problem that hopefully is now fixed) and waiting until the dust settles. Presently I am waiting for the Deep life and the Apex three. Mind you if the HH problems are fixed i might just stick with that as its on a par with the Vision and the Shearwater heads ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Online)

30th November 2006, 09:26	#15 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,674	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros When I saw this I almost groaned :-) and could just see conflicting view points and was praying no arguments popped out.... Well any how let me chip in with my thoughts. Both units have their pros and cons - we all know there is no perfect Rebreather - though I do note that decodiver actually owns both units so they must each have something uniquely good going for them Meg + Modular Easy to Travel With Configure it how you want Very Robust Multi Scrubber Options Meg - Clutterd front area No built in deco from factory HUD operation disliked by some Boris + Most sophisticated electronics in the world Designed for Expedition Deep Diving Clear front Multi Redundant Electronics Best Performing & tested scrubber for deep dives in the world CE Approved Boris - Bloody Big Increased WOB with rear mounted lungs (I believe a noted exception under CE tests - eg it does not achieve pass mark as per Inspiration etc) One Size fits all Expensive In terms of location of makers people always blow that completely out of proportion in my book - eg if I fedex something to America it takes 1 day, if I post it to Portsmouth it takes 1 day. I would not use makers location as basis for anything. In terms of quality of support - I would say you con not beat either manufacturer either. Heheheh my views probably dont help do they! __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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30th November 2006, 09:38	#16 (permalink)
iani Nefarious Activist Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Middlesex, UK Posts: 334	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros [quote=schford;80915] In terms of location of makers people always blow that completely out of proportion in my book - eg if I fedex something to America it takes 1 day, if I post it to Portsmouth it takes 1 day. I would not use makers location as basis for anything. In terms of quality of support - I would say you con not beat either manufacturer either. quote] The proximitiy of maker means a lot to me, I can drive my unit to the factory and have it home again the same day (twice already). As for the WOB issue, this does only seem to be raised by those who haven't dived the unit, the exception covers two planes AIUI, on your back and on your side, we don't dive like this! Ian
(Offline)

30th November 2006, 09:45	#17 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros I'm not going to help either........ They are both excellent CCRs, I know because I own and regularly dive both. I cannot notice any WOB changes when changing between units, both breathe like an absolute dream. Yes the Boris is bigger than some units, CCRB support is exemplary as is that of ISC. Whenever I need to speak to the people who designed and engineered these units, I pick up the phone and we talk. I deco on VR3s so the lack of onboard deco on the Meg is not a limiting factor for me, I wish the Boris had a Smithers mode HUD incorporated into what is an already excellent HUD. If I travel by air the Meg gets packed, if I travel by car I bring both units, because I often change from one unit to the next over a diving trip. Both are great, you will always find people with preferences for one or the other. I am not like that, I love them both! If anyone in Europe wants to try out either unit and compare them please get in-touch I will be very happy to assist. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions Last edited by Decodiver : 30th November 2006 at 09:47.
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30th November 2006, 09:47	#18 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,103	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) When I saw this I almost groaned :-) and could just see conflicting view points and was praying no arguments popped out.... he he. Well try this on for size. Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Best Performing & tested scrubber for deep dives in the world The Meg radial absolutely blew it out of the water. "Yeah Yeah, show me the test data" I can hear the carping from here. Well it hasn't been released yet and you will just have to take my word for it. Seriously though, I was surprised with how well it went. Steve liked the numbers a lot __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
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30th November 2006, 09:48	#19 (permalink)
richc New Member Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hove actually Posts: 40	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros [quote=iani;80918] Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) The proximitiy of maker means a lot to me, I can drive my unit to the factory and have it home again the same day (twice already). As for the WOB issue, this does only seem to be raised by those who haven't dived the unit, the exception covers two planes AIUI, on your back and on your side, we don't dive like this! Ian I agree. I have no issue over WOB on my Boris. Cheers Rich
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30th November 2006, 10:01	#20 (permalink)
DrJM Deep Cave Explorer Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Join Date: May 2005 Location: France Posts: 344	Re: Megalodon over Ouroboros Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) I wish the Boris had a Smithers mode HUD incorporated into What is it ? Qu'est ce que c'est ? Merci Jerome __________________ www.snoopyloop.com Deep Cave Exploration
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