voyager v1 tek

gibbogeo · 12th May 2008, 20:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Devils Advocate)

It is between a Kiss and a Pelagian in concept. The O2 is a continious flow design but is controlled by a needle valve.

The oxygen it is still feed with a normal first stage that increase the IP with the depth like the Pelagian?

**jmurba** · 12th May 2008, 21:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo)

The oxygen it is still feed with a normal first stage that increase the IP with the depth like the Pelagian?

Do you dive the ccr version ?
must the diver reduce the o2 flow when going down ?

gibbogeo · 12th May 2008, 22:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

Do you dive the ccr version ?
must the diver reduce the o2 flow when going down ?

No, it is 5 years that i dive kiss valves with fixed ip regulators.

Before i used a dolphin modified (i still have it, with an aluminum shell made in new zealand), now i use a classic kiss.

**jmurba** · 13th May 2008, 09:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo)

No, it is 5 years that i dive kiss valves with fixed ip regulators.

Before i used a dolphin modified (i still have it, with an aluminum shell made in new zealand), now i use a classic kiss.

it is true that kiss is a simple solution that we can all understand,
as for the voyager I still don't understant the working principle and they don't explain it simply on their site, saying that it is a scr/mccr is not clear enough for me .
anyway if they don't want to explain this their problem, it does not mean that it is a bad system, but I would have liked to understant.

anyway one more mystery

regards

jean mi

gibbogeo · 13th May 2008, 09:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

As for the voyager I still don't understant the working principle and they don't explain it simply on their site, saying that it is a scr/mccr is not clear enough for me .
anyway if they don't want to explain this their problem, it does not mean that it is a bad system, but I would have liked to understant.

anyway one more mystery

No mistery at all. The same needle valve can restrict the flow from 0.5 to more than 25 l/sec. In the lower range (0.3-1.2) you fed it with pure oxygen and you use it as CCR like the Pelagian, in the higher range (5.0->25) you fed it with nitrox and you use it as SCR like the Azimut.

Obviously you need to preset the flow at the surface and you cannot switch the feeding gas from CCR to SCR during the dive without changing the flow rate.

How does it works is absolutely clear, it has a first stage that increase the IP with the depth that feed a needle valve, so the flow increae with the IP (and the depth).

**jmurba** · 13th May 2008, 14:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo)

No mistery at all. The same needle valve can restrict the flow from 0.5 to more than 25 l/sec. In the lower range (0.3-1.2) you fed it with pure oxygen and you use it as CCR like the Pelagian, in the higher range (5.0->25) you fed it with nitrox and you use it as SCR like the Azimut.

Obviously you need to preset the flow at the surface and you cannot switch the feeding gas from CCR to SCR during the dive without changing the flow rate.

How does it works is absolutely clear, it has a first stage that increase the IP with the depth that feed a needle valve, so the flow increae with the IP (and the depth).

thank for making it clearer for me,
so the oxygen flow must be controlled by the diver during the dive , the diver must tune the flow rate on the fly !!! whaouw !!!
and the diluant is added via an adv rigth ?
it must be difficult to fly...I mean more difficult then a kiss.
did you try it ?
regards

jean mi

gibbogeo · 13th May 2008, 15:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by jm)

so the oxygen flow must be controlled by the diver during the dive , the diver must tune the flow rate on the fly !!! whaouw !!!

This is how it works the Pelagian, with a needle valve you can reach and regulate during the dive.

In the voyager the flow is pre-set at surface. You are teached that you cannot change it during the dive.

Quote:

and the diluant is added via an adv rigth ?

Yes, that's correct.

Quote:

it must be difficult to fly...I mean more difficult then a kiss.

I agree.

Quote:

did you try it ?

No, i tested how the needle valve works at the surface with flowmeter and manometers for showing a friend that he was teached wrong, so i know how does it works, but i didn't used it in water, because i don't like in this machine.

**jmurba** · 13th May 2008, 19:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo)

This is how it works the Pelagian, with a needle valve you can reach and regulate during the dive.

In the voyager the flow is pre-set at surface. You are teached that you cannot change it during the dive.

Yes, that's correct.

I agree.

No, i tested how the needle valve works at the surface with flowmeter and manometers for showing a friend that he was teached wrong, so i know how does it works, but i didn't used it in water, because i don't like in this machine.

if you isolate the reg from pressure it is a kiss...
I am sure that when they say scr/ccr it means that one can add a cape to the reg to get a fixed MP and dive the rig kiss style.
it must be certified as a SCR and divable as a kiss with a discreet modification.
the system you discribe can't be dived CCR, if the diver can't reduce the flow rate going down the ppo2 will sky rocket unless one tunes the flow rate to nearly nothign clos the surface to reach 1 liter minute at the botton whcih is stupid because this near the surface that we need the flow rate to be as close as possible to our methabolic consuption.
you also mentionned that the flow rate could vary from 0.5 to 25lt/minute...it looks like a scr flow rate...I'd like to read the certification, it must be a scr certification.

buonna sera

jean mi

gibbogeo · 13th May 2008, 20:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

if you isolate the reg from pressure it is a kiss...
I am sure that when they say scr/ccr it means that one can add a cape to the reg to get a fixed MP and dive the rig kiss style.

No, i am sorry, but i am sure of this part of the story. The regulator have not a cap and the IP increase with the depth.

Quote:

it must be certified as a SCR and divable as a kiss with a discreet modification.

It has a certification that is not issued from a notified laboratory. You can decide by yourself what value have it.

You can check this discussion about this mater:

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...=certification

(but i am sure you know it, because you started it!)

Quote:

the system you discribe can't be dived CCR, if the diver can't reduce the flow rate going down the ppo2 will sky rocket unless one tunes the flow rate to nearly nothign clos the surface to reach 1 liter minute at the botton whcih is stupid because this near the surface that we need the flow rate to be as close as possible to our methabolic consuption.

Now you know why i don't like it and why i made some test with manometer and flowmeters to convince a friend that the flow was increasing with the IP. And he is still not completely convinced, because they told him that with a variable IP first stage the flow would stand fixed due to some sort of viscosity, density, whatever technical or magical term you want to use, in the needle valve.

Quote:

you also mentionned that the flow rate could vary from 0.5 to 25lt/minute...it looks like a scr flow rate...

You can regulate it in a typical CCR flow for use with pure oxygen or you can have an higher flow for use in SCR.

Quote:

I'd like to read the certification, it must be a scr certification.

That's very easy:

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...html#post93492

buonna sera[/quote]

Bonne nuit

ps if you understand italian, i can send you something worth to be read about the voyager...

**jmurba** · 14th May 2008, 18:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo)

No, i am sorry, but i am sure of this part of the story. The regulator have not a cap and the IP increase with the depth.

you did not get me, I was not saying the reg had a fixed mp but only that if we fixed it's mp it would work as a kiss

It has a certification that is not issued from a notified laboratory. You can decide by yourself what value have it.

You can check this discussion about this mater:

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...=certification

(but i am sure you know it, because you started it!)

the discussion was about the submatix, I don't know the details of the voyager certification,

Now you know why i don't like it and why i made some test with manometer and flowmeters to convince a friend that the flow was increasing with the IP. And he is still not completely convinced, because they told him that with a variable IP first stage the flow would stand fixed due to some sort of viscosity, density, whatever technical or magical term you want to use, in the needle valve.

some still think that when the flow rate resch a sonic speed the flow can't increase regardless of the pressure, but it is not true of course the flow get's higher getting deeper...this the reason why we use fixed MP regulators (((-:

You can regulate it in a typical CCR flow for use with pure oxygen or you can have an higher flow for use in SCR.

That's very easy:

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...html#post93492

buonna sera

Bonne nuit

ps if you understand italian, i can send you something worth to be read about the voyager...[/quote]

capisco Italiano ma non lo parlo bene...it's a petty given my roots !!

please send me the articles.

regards

jean mi

12th May 2008, 20:50	#11 (permalink)
gibbogeo kiss addict Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: italy Posts: 308	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by Devils Advocate) It is between a Kiss and a Pelagian in concept. The O2 is a continious flow design but is controlled by a needle valve. The oxygen it is still feed with a normal first stage that increase the IP with the depth like the Pelagian?
(Offline)

12th May 2008, 21:11	#12 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo) The oxygen it is still feed with a normal first stage that increase the IP with the depth like the Pelagian? Do you dive the ccr version ? must the diver reduce the o2 flow when going down ? __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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12th May 2008, 22:45	#13 (permalink)
gibbogeo kiss addict Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: italy Posts: 308	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) Do you dive the ccr version ? must the diver reduce the o2 flow when going down ? No, it is 5 years that i dive kiss valves with fixed ip regulators. Before i used a dolphin modified (i still have it, with an aluminum shell made in new zealand), now i use a classic kiss.
(Offline)

13th May 2008, 09:09	#14 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo) No, it is 5 years that i dive kiss valves with fixed ip regulators. Before i used a dolphin modified (i still have it, with an aluminum shell made in new zealand), now i use a classic kiss. it is true that kiss is a simple solution that we can all understand, as for the voyager I still don't understant the working principle and they don't explain it simply on their site, saying that it is a scr/mccr is not clear enough for me . anyway if they don't want to explain this their problem, it does not mean that it is a bad system, but I would have liked to understant. anyway one more mystery regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Online)

13th May 2008, 09:56	#15 (permalink)
gibbogeo kiss addict Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: italy Posts: 308	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) As for the voyager I still don't understant the working principle and they don't explain it simply on their site, saying that it is a scr/mccr is not clear enough for me . anyway if they don't want to explain this their problem, it does not mean that it is a bad system, but I would have liked to understant. anyway one more mystery No mistery at all. The same needle valve can restrict the flow from 0.5 to more than 25 l/sec. In the lower range (0.3-1.2) you fed it with pure oxygen and you use it as CCR like the Pelagian, in the higher range (5.0->25) you fed it with nitrox and you use it as SCR like the Azimut. Obviously you need to preset the flow at the surface and you cannot switch the feeding gas from CCR to SCR during the dive without changing the flow rate. How does it works is absolutely clear, it has a first stage that increase the IP with the depth that feed a needle valve, so the flow increae with the IP (and the depth).
(Offline)

13th May 2008, 14:01	#16 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo) No mistery at all. The same needle valve can restrict the flow from 0.5 to more than 25 l/sec. In the lower range (0.3-1.2) you fed it with pure oxygen and you use it as CCR like the Pelagian, in the higher range (5.0->25) you fed it with nitrox and you use it as SCR like the Azimut. Obviously you need to preset the flow at the surface and you cannot switch the feeding gas from CCR to SCR during the dive without changing the flow rate. How does it works is absolutely clear, it has a first stage that increase the IP with the depth that feed a needle valve, so the flow increae with the IP (and the depth). thank for making it clearer for me, so the oxygen flow must be controlled by the diver during the dive , the diver must tune the flow rate on the fly !!! whaouw !!! and the diluant is added via an adv rigth ? it must be difficult to fly...I mean more difficult then a kiss. did you try it ? regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Online)

13th May 2008, 15:34	#17 (permalink)
gibbogeo kiss addict Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: italy Posts: 308	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by jm) so the oxygen flow must be controlled by the diver during the dive , the diver must tune the flow rate on the fly !!! whaouw !!! This is how it works the Pelagian, with a needle valve you can reach and regulate during the dive. In the voyager the flow is pre-set at surface. You are teached that you cannot change it during the dive. Quote: and the diluant is added via an adv rigth ? Yes, that's correct. Quote: it must be difficult to fly...I mean more difficult then a kiss. I agree. Quote: did you try it ? No, i tested how the needle valve works at the surface with flowmeter and manometers for showing a friend that he was teached wrong, so i know how does it works, but i didn't used it in water, because i don't like in this machine.
(Offline)

13th May 2008, 19:37	#18 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo) This is how it works the Pelagian, with a needle valve you can reach and regulate during the dive. In the voyager the flow is pre-set at surface. You are teached that you cannot change it during the dive. Yes, that's correct. I agree. No, i tested how the needle valve works at the surface with flowmeter and manometers for showing a friend that he was teached wrong, so i know how does it works, but i didn't used it in water, because i don't like in this machine. if you isolate the reg from pressure it is a kiss... I am sure that when they say scr/ccr it means that one can add a cape to the reg to get a fixed MP and dive the rig kiss style. it must be certified as a SCR and divable as a kiss with a discreet modification. the system you discribe can't be dived CCR, if the diver can't reduce the flow rate going down the ppo2 will sky rocket unless one tunes the flow rate to nearly nothign clos the surface to reach 1 liter minute at the botton whcih is stupid because this near the surface that we need the flow rate to be as close as possible to our methabolic consuption. you also mentionned that the flow rate could vary from 0.5 to 25lt/minute...it looks like a scr flow rate...I'd like to read the certification, it must be a scr certification. buonna sera jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Online)

13th May 2008, 20:57	#19 (permalink)
gibbogeo kiss addict Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: italy Posts: 308	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) if you isolate the reg from pressure it is a kiss... I am sure that when they say scr/ccr it means that one can add a cape to the reg to get a fixed MP and dive the rig kiss style. No, i am sorry, but i am sure of this part of the story. The regulator have not a cap and the IP increase with the depth. Quote: it must be certified as a SCR and divable as a kiss with a discreet modification. It has a certification that is not issued from a notified laboratory. You can decide by yourself what value have it. You can check this discussion about this mater: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...=certification (but i am sure you know it, because you started it!) Quote: the system you discribe can't be dived CCR, if the diver can't reduce the flow rate going down the ppo2 will sky rocket unless one tunes the flow rate to nearly nothign clos the surface to reach 1 liter minute at the botton whcih is stupid because this near the surface that we need the flow rate to be as close as possible to our methabolic consuption. Now you know why i don't like it and why i made some test with manometer and flowmeters to convince a friend that the flow was increasing with the IP. And he is still not completely convinced, because they told him that with a variable IP first stage the flow would stand fixed due to some sort of viscosity, density, whatever technical or magical term you want to use, in the needle valve. Quote: you also mentionned that the flow rate could vary from 0.5 to 25lt/minute...it looks like a scr flow rate... You can regulate it in a typical CCR flow for use with pure oxygen or you can have an higher flow for use in SCR. Quote: I'd like to read the certification, it must be a scr certification. That's very easy: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...html#post93492 buonna sera[/quote] Bonne nuit ps if you understand italian, i can send you something worth to be read about the voyager...
(Offline)

14th May 2008, 18:16	#20 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: voyager v1 tek Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo) No, i am sorry, but i am sure of this part of the story. The regulator have not a cap and the IP increase with the depth. you did not get me, I was not saying the reg had a fixed mp but only that if we fixed it's mp it would work as a kiss It has a certification that is not issued from a notified laboratory. You can decide by yourself what value have it. You can check this discussion about this mater: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...=certification (but i am sure you know it, because you started it!) the discussion was about the submatix, I don't know the details of the voyager certification, Now you know why i don't like it and why i made some test with manometer and flowmeters to convince a friend that the flow was increasing with the IP. And he is still not completely convinced, because they told him that with a variable IP first stage the flow would stand fixed due to some sort of viscosity, density, whatever technical or magical term you want to use, in the needle valve. some still think that when the flow rate resch a sonic speed the flow can't increase regardless of the pressure, but it is not true of course the flow get's higher getting deeper...this the reason why we use fixed MP regulators (((-: You can regulate it in a typical CCR flow for use with pure oxygen or you can have an higher flow for use in SCR. That's very easy: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...html#post93492 buonna sera Bonne nuit ps if you understand italian, i can send you something worth to be read about the voyager...[/quote] capisco Italiano ma non lo parlo bene...it's a petty given my roots !! please send me the articles. regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Online)

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