CO2 monitor - which rebreather?

Soren Thomsen · 22nd December 2007, 18:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by Soren Thomsen)

Hi Alex,

Are there some of the popular CCR producers among your clients? a.k.a could it be possible to see a sports unit with CO2 monitoring in 2008? Or could the monitoring package be buildt in a new head for existing rebreathers?

Cheers
Soren
A Sports client is planning a nice surprise for DEMA 08. More than that, we cannot say.

Alex

OK folks,

Looks like 2008 could be the year that a CCR for the people with a CO2 monitoring system is available.
Since the HammerHead, Sentinel, CisPos

CCR's and the Shearwater Pursuit all were introduced in 2007 these can most likely be ruled out.

So which CCR do YOU think has the nice surprise for DEMA 08? Megalodon Apecs 3.0, new unit from AP, a "true" CisLunar MK6 or....

Give us an "educated" guess...

Cheers

Soren

P.S. Strikes me as odd that the producer hasn't given any info at all. I meen it would be great for marketing and sales....

**Dsix36** · 22nd December 2007, 18:47

I won't even make a quess at this time.

I will believe it when I see it. Until then it is just vaporware

***caveseeker7*** · 22nd December 2007, 20:27

The Infinto. Been implemented there a few years back. But at a very high price.
At the production volume of let's say a Meg, the electronics package would like double the of the base unit. So I doubt anybody who bolts together 100, 200 or even 300 RBs a year can successfully get it to the market.

It will be available either when a high volume manufacturer gets into the game, or some else can develop and test a working CO2 sensor system for a lot less money.

Soren Thomsen · 22nd December 2007, 21:27

The interesting part is that it's likely going to be mounted on asports rebreather. This should indicate a somewhat affordable price, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe Alex D. could bring something to this thread regarding pricing...

Cheers

Soren

***caveseeker7*** · 22nd December 2007, 22:50

Then what are you asking the question for in this forum?

Alex has been developing the O.R. design, and been trying to sell it. From what I understand that's the entire rebreather, not just a CO2 monitor. So if there's a O.R. sport unit at DEMA 08 it'll likely be someone who decided to produce the O.R. in a reasonably high volume. He wrote Sports client, for all we know that could be Nike.

Just the CO2 sensor in an existing rig wouldn't make much sense in my opinion anyway. He's been waffling on about EN standards, sub-standards, FMECAS, fail-safe and what else since he arrived here. Why bolt the CO2 sensor into a rig that doesn't fit his lofty standards.

He's got an arm long list of what he considers faulty design by AP, so I rather doubt it'll be their rig. For the Meg the list may be shorter, but it's there.

The Cis MK6 will likely have the electronics as presented by Stone and Pyle. They sure put a lot of work into it, I doubt they just dump it. Am not sure what you mean by "real". If they build the MK6, it'll be real. If not, it will be vaporware, like many other rebreathers anounced, shown, etc including the O.R. at this time, and the many CO2 sensors that have been announced over the years.

Mdemon · 23rd December 2007, 06:27

What's the benefit of a CO2 monitor? It'll alert you/confirm the fact that your scrubber's not working 100%. Whilst that's an advantage if you hadn't realised your scrubber's not working, it doesn't help you resolve the issue. So if it's going to double the cost of the unit, I'd suggest you're better off buying a BOV with a good reg and a cylinder to connect it to and not worrying too much about which unit is getting the illusive CO2 monitor.

***caveseeker7*** · 23rd December 2007, 07:50

Well, I guess it all depends on how you implement it

The Infinito warns of and displays pCO2, but also performs an automatic loop flush.
Just the thing for the incapacitated diver.

Mdemon · 23rd December 2007, 09:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Well, I guess it all depends on how you implement it

The Infinito warns of and displays pCO2, but also performs an automatic loop flush.
Just the thing for the incapacitated diver.

...who is now hurtling upwards towards pulmonary embolism and DCI. Or does it manage buoyancy too?

***jradomski*** · 23rd December 2007, 11:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

...who is now hurtling upwards towards pulmonary embolism and DCI. Or does it manage buoyancy too?

It managed buoyancy as well (was able to dump all gas spaces) .. in fact it was supposedly tested on decompressing an unconscious diver.. by controlling the ascent... The version That I used predated the CO2 functions..

Soren Thomsen · 23rd December 2007, 11:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

What's the benefit of a CO2 monitor? It'll alert you/confirm the fact that your scrubber's not working 100%. Whilst that's an advantage if you hadn't realised your scrubber's not working, it doesn't help you resolve the issue. So if it's going to double the cost of the unit, I'd suggest you're better off buying a BOV with a good reg and a cylinder to connect it to and not worrying too much about which unit is getting the illusive CO2 monitor.

Hi Mdemon,
My view is that a potentially (still vapourware) CO2 monitoring system is not a substitute for BOV but a system that will allow you to use your BOV before it is to late...Video of CO2 incident comes to my mind.
If the system is so accurate that it can meassure PPCO2 and alert the diver before the diver has any symptoms to go for offboard OC or BOV I reckon that it is money well spend...even though I don't know the price.

Cheers

Soren

22nd December 2007, 18:34	#1 (permalink)
Soren Thomsen Happy Hippo Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 149	CO2 monitor - which rebreather? Quote: (Originally Posted by Soren Thomsen) Hi Alex, Are there some of the popular CCR producers among your clients? a.k.a could it be possible to see a sports unit with CO2 monitoring in 2008? Or could the monitoring package be buildt in a new head for existing rebreathers? Cheers Soren A Sports client is planning a nice surprise for DEMA 08. More than that, we cannot say. Alex OK folks, Looks like 2008 could be the year that a CCR for the people with a CO2 monitoring system is available. Since the HammerHead, Sentinel, CisPos CCR's and the Shearwater Pursuit all were introduced in 2007 these can most likely be ruled out. So which CCR do YOU think has the nice surprise for DEMA 08? Megalodon Apecs 3.0, new unit from AP, a "true" CisLunar MK6 or.... Give us an "educated" guess... Cheers Soren P.S. Strikes me as odd that the producer hasn't given any info at all. I meen it would be great for marketing and sales.... __________________ - Giraffes were created when Chuck Norris uppercutted a horse -
(Online)

22nd December 2007, 18:47	#2 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,062	Re: CO2 monitor - which rebreather? I won't even make a quess at this time. I will believe it when I see it. Until then it is just vaporware __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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22nd December 2007, 20:27	#3 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,453	Re: CO2 monitor - which rebreather? The Infinto. Been implemented there a few years back. But at a very high price. At the production volume of let's say a Meg, the electronics package would like double the of the base unit. So I doubt anybody who bolts together 100, 200 or even 300 RBs a year can successfully get it to the market. It will be available either when a high volume manufacturer gets into the game, or some else can develop and test a working CO2 sensor system for a lot less money. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
(Offline)

22nd December 2007, 21:27	#4 (permalink)
Soren Thomsen Happy Hippo Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 149	Re: CO2 monitor - which rebreather? The interesting part is that it's likely going to be mounted on asports rebreather. This should indicate a somewhat affordable price, wouldn't you agree? Maybe Alex D. could bring something to this thread regarding pricing... Cheers Soren __________________ - Giraffes were created when Chuck Norris uppercutted a horse -
(Online)

22nd December 2007, 22:50	#5 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,453	Re: CO2 monitor - which rebreather? Then what are you asking the question for in this forum? Alex has been developing the O.R. design, and been trying to sell it. From what I understand that's the entire rebreather, not just a CO2 monitor. So if there's a O.R. sport unit at DEMA 08 it'll likely be someone who decided to produce the O.R. in a reasonably high volume. He wrote Sports client, for all we know that could be Nike. Just the CO2 sensor in an existing rig wouldn't make much sense in my opinion anyway. He's been waffling on about EN standards, sub-standards, FMECAS, fail-safe and what else since he arrived here. Why bolt the CO2 sensor into a rig that doesn't fit his lofty standards. He's got an arm long list of what he considers faulty design by AP, so I rather doubt it'll be their rig. For the Meg the list may be shorter, but it's there. The Cis MK6 will likely have the electronics as presented by Stone and Pyle. They sure put a lot of work into it, I doubt they just dump it. Am not sure what you mean by "real". If they build the MK6, it'll be real. If not, it will be vaporware, like many other rebreathers anounced, shown, etc including the O.R. at this time, and the many CO2 sensors that have been announced over the years. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
(Offline)

23rd December 2007, 06:27	#6 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,927	Re: CO2 monitor - which rebreather? What's the benefit of a CO2 monitor? It'll alert you/confirm the fact that your scrubber's not working 100%. Whilst that's an advantage if you hadn't realised your scrubber's not working, it doesn't help you resolve the issue. So if it's going to double the cost of the unit, I'd suggest you're better off buying a BOV with a good reg and a cylinder to connect it to and not worrying too much about which unit is getting the illusive CO2 monitor. __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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23rd December 2007, 07:50	#7 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,453	Re: CO2 monitor - which rebreather? Well, I guess it all depends on how you implement it The Infinito warns of and displays pCO2, but also performs an automatic loop flush. Just the thing for the incapacitated diver. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
(Offline)

23rd December 2007, 09:29	#8 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,927	Re: CO2 monitor - which rebreather? Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Well, I guess it all depends on how you implement it The Infinito warns of and displays pCO2, but also performs an automatic loop flush. Just the thing for the incapacitated diver. ...who is now hurtling upwards towards pulmonary embolism and DCI. Or does it manage buoyancy too? __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

23rd December 2007, 11:20	#9 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,011	Re: CO2 monitor - which rebreather? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) ...who is now hurtling upwards towards pulmonary embolism and DCI. Or does it manage buoyancy too? It managed buoyancy as well (was able to dump all gas spaces) .. in fact it was supposedly tested on decompressing an unconscious diver.. by controlling the ascent... The version That I used predated the CO2 functions.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Offline)

23rd December 2007, 11:20	#10 (permalink)
Soren Thomsen Happy Hippo Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 149	Re: CO2 monitor - which rebreather? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) What's the benefit of a CO2 monitor? It'll alert you/confirm the fact that your scrubber's not working 100%. Whilst that's an advantage if you hadn't realised your scrubber's not working, it doesn't help you resolve the issue. So if it's going to double the cost of the unit, I'd suggest you're better off buying a BOV with a good reg and a cylinder to connect it to and not worrying too much about which unit is getting the illusive CO2 monitor. Hi Mdemon, My view is that a potentially (still vapourware) CO2 monitoring system is not a substitute for BOV but a system that will allow you to use your BOV before it is to late...Video of CO2 incident comes to my mind. If the system is so accurate that it can meassure PPCO2 and alert the diver before the diver has any symptoms to go for offboard OC or BOV I reckon that it is money well spend...even though I don't know the price. Cheers Soren __________________ - Giraffes were created when Chuck Norris uppercutted a horse -
(Online)

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