The Right CCR for starting on?

Mark Chase

Integrated ECCR and decompression: Inspiration Vision

ECCR: Meg with Apex2 head. (Expensive but well built slightly better than the YBOD Classic but costs more than the Vision)

MCCR: rEvo would be my first choice. Excellent standard features and clever design.




They are all good but I like the features and simplicity of the rEvo and I would have thought MCCR was a better choice for cave diving (less to go wrong) However the Meg and by some margin the Inspo will handle flooding much better than the rEvo or the other popular MCCR the KISS.

I used to dive a Classic then a Hammerhead Classic and now I dive a KISS. I prefer the kiss for everything except its ability to cope with flooding (which is not good at all). I think by design the rEvo would do a slightly better job.

ATB

Mark Chase

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paulraymaekers

integrated ECCR and decompression, hybrid option (changing between CMF mCCR with parachute system to full ECCR in .... 10 seconds :-) ...

electronic upgrade on the mCCR rEvo, available first half of 2008

paul

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marekm

Hi Mark,

As you probably know, the flooding resistance of the Inspiration comes from the OTS CL's with flow diverters in the T-pieces. So have you tried mounting the CK's MSR bag counterlungs on your shoulders (like I have on my homebuild as seen on my avatar) and just plugging the usual CL mounting ports. If your not up for that, you might consider the Pelagian rebreather which is essentially a CK with OTS CLs.

Cheers.
-Marek

OceanOpportunity

Pelagian and Kiss are two different animals. Both considered mCCR, however the Pelagian uses a depth compensated 1st w/needle valve, KISS is non-depth compensated 1st w/orifice. there are ups/downs for each, but this is another choice to be made by the purchaser once he decides on eCCR or mCCR

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Ant Slegg

If you do decide which way to go in terms of eCCR or mCCR then I'd suggest:

1) find someone nearby with (one of) the possible options, bribe them with a drink or two and try the kit on, ask them about their experience and to demonstrate how the thing is set up. An evening spent looking at someone else's kit can teach you a lot, especially if all they seem to have done is modify it or buy bits from APD),
2) try and find someone qualified to give you a try dive
I believe you are in Ireland but I know the BS-AC has a sort of touring Rebreather try dive so they may be able to arrange something to let you try a few in one go.
3) if in doubt pay the money for the training course. I did this a few years ago for a Drager Dolphin course and didn't really enjoy the experience but it taught me a lot (on borrowed kit)

And finally on a note of caution (and apologies for stating the bl**dy obvious) diving a rebreather can be very different from OC so build up some experience before the darkness beckons...

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marekm

Not really, they share the same co-axial scrubber specifications, except the Pelagian has an off center return tube and OTS CL's. They even have some crossover in how the certification course works.

There is nothing stopping you putting a DS4 plug (ubiquitous these days) into the O2 first stage of the Pelagian and setting the needle valve to flow oxygen at ~0.8LPM, thus making it behave exactly like the KISS O2 CMF orifice.

The Pelagian is closer to the Classic KISS than any other rebreather.

-Marek

Gill Envy

Bravo Paul!!! a manufacturer who gets it!!! Adaptability build in to original design for the changing needs and wims of the diver over time...excellent!

IN general, The biggest challenge to finding out what soots your needs is that trying each out in a swimming pool just scratches the surface. Extended periods of time are needed on each to really know the differences.

My advice: make a list of what your priorities are. If you are going to far away places for extended periods of time go with an mCCR so you can learn to service it in the field or add a truly redundant back up to an eCCR that can be used as a primary for extended periods.

I'm in the middle of the cross over to the Copis Meg and wishing I had started on mCCR. Aside form the benefits of modularity on the Meg, learning to dive mCCR requires that you have a deeper understanding of how the system works and the more subtle visisitudes of po2 changes throughout the dive, your brain stays interested and engaged because things are constantly changing and requiring occasional adjustment. Perhaps using an mCCR as training wheels and then seeing later if you need a set point controller is the way to go.

the shearwater on an mCCR would allow for an eCCR upgrade down the line...especially on the Copis meg. then again, you could get a copis and wait till the Apex 3 comes and then go eCCR, then you'd either have a back up head or you could sell the Copis head to someone who needs a back up. If there is a down side to the meg it's that the options are almost endless, and that is often intimidating to the newcomer. It took me a year of CCR diving to even begin to feel that I could navigate through the choices of set point controller vs no set point controller, which wing/harness, which tank size and type, back plate options, scrubber preference, Can size, which valves do I prefer and what combination of electronics options best suites me.

I have a strong preference for front mounted counter lungs, so the Kiss was out of the question from day 1. I didn't trust the electronics of the Apex head so the eCCR version of the meg was out of the question (and the Copis wasn't an option a year and a half ago). the vision is a super cool, top of the line eCCR, but for expeditions I'd recommend adding a totally independent set of electronics (I'd be adding this on but my wife pulled the plug, it's a long story). The optima is a pretty cool set up with very nice options for a harness but the EAC's (co2 cartridges) were a major draw back to me, in expense and lack of flexibility. the rEvo looks cool but is made half way around the world (parts and training challenges for me here in the US). The Palagian looks very inovative for an mCCR with a needle valve and pressure compensating first stage (virtually eliminating the usual depth limitations of an mCCR), only two cells come stock with a place for a 3rd for in line deco/truly independent back up po2 computer of your choice...but is manufactured half way around the world (possing a training/parts challenge), The Prism is a much more viable option than first met the eye...excelent radial scrubber design for effiicient sorb use when traveling and long and or deep dives and a very inovative passive po2 display that actually runs off the electricity generated by the o2 cells... but I don't like shell covers/cowlings, the Inspo was too huge and boxy (even for my 6'3", 220lb frame).

For me the copis was the way to go...just a few hours from the manufacturer, local training is available from a top notche instructor, am adding on a shearwater GF and HUD. the stock handset will likely be left in place but dormant, ready to be the primary in the event of a Sheawater melt down. Rock solid rig for shore and multi day expedition kayak diving (my favorite). Modular to the N'th degree. the mCCR aspect is rediculously simple and easy to use (so far). I'll have two options for upgrading to eCCR in the future if I ever need to, get a Apex 3 or plumb in a solenoid and use the Shearwaters set point controller capabilities.

good luck, hope that helps!

g

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decoweenie

Whatever happened to the days of old when one only recommends unit that they at least owned and dived for a while to know it more intimately ?

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Gilles

Well, I wouldn't be very credible pushing the unit I dive and know intimately. You on the other hand....

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decoweenie

Was that a dig ?

The point I was alluding to is I found it was ironic that Mark never owned/dived none of the units he recommended - except experienced thru his friends owning the units or seeing at dive show.

One of the recommendation surprised me since he had been justifying a lot in the past for his decision to go with HH instead of Vision.

You, on the other hand, would be very credible commenting on the only unit you have been diving, for the last year. And I, of course, wouldn't know anything after almost 10 years of diving CCR exclusively...

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"...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..."

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