Colkan Eagle

S. Marc · 20th March 2007, 22:37

Just an FYI for those guys discussing the restriction in the biopack center section.

The BMR 500 center section I have does not at first appear to have a restriction, there is no half moon at all, it is a full circle just over 1 1/4" ID, that is until one puts the scrubber into the center section, and then you get the half moon effect as when the scrubber is seated properly it blocks (rough eyeball measurement) one half of the exhale tube. The O-ring is above the exhale tube and the center section is machined such that the scrubber can go in to a predetermined depth.

There are some people (Phi, please don't get upset

) who have dove the BMR in the 300 to 400 fsw range and I have not heard of any reports of problems with WOB.

I have heard of a number of people doing sub 150 fsw dives on biopak center sections and have not heard of problems (not to say there weren't any).

Just my 2 cents.

Marc

**Dave Sutton** · 20th March 2007, 23:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

Direct from the horses mouth Colin Said, "digital electronics are "flakey" at best, we will be replacing the digital system with an analog one"

"Again, according to Colin, the backlight sucks juice and will significantly deplete the battery"

"this is however a bad thing for the oxygen side, with 200 bar on the manual inject valve, how much oxygen do you think is going to flow into the rig when one hits the button at depth....

Spoken like a true convert to the Meg.....

I'll be the first to LOVE analog pods, as my old Rev-G one is the tits...

The backlight on the secondary runs fine for about 6 *months* of regular diving, so dunno how long "significant" is, but... it's not an issue.

I'm not a HUD fan, and prefer the original Mark-15 array. There is a MINI-Primary in the works that will place the Mark-15 array in small scale in front of the divers eyes, which is probably better than any flashing HUD system. I get the first one.

The Schreader of the manual add valves have such low flow that even at 3000 PSI the flow from them is really pretty normal. See equations for flow of gas thru an orifice... remember sonic flow?

So, with all due respect, I think you could stand to give old Col a chance. His stuff has been great in the past, and he's a good guy.

I could debate the other points too, but it's not worthwhile. I wouldn't dive a Meg... (not an eCCR one anyhow) so there's an ass for every seat.

Dave

**Dave Sutton** · 20th March 2007, 23:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by marekm)

Hi Dave,

If you had to choose between a Sport KISS and a Colkan Eagle, which would you choose and would it be a tough choice? Reason I ask is that I just heard the price of the Eagle versus the SK, and have become very interested in getting one, especially since it will be available relatively locally. -Marek

Oh Man.... impossible for me to answer in a quick reply....

Here's the long version:

I'll always have an eCCR and a Leaky-Valve CCR on the rack, as I use them differently. There is ZERO DOUBT that for the "hey let's go for a quick dip now" dive that the mCCR is going to win hands down, any day of the week. Easier to set up, and less stress all around. With that said, there is also a mission for the eCCR when I need to work and just want to let the rig do it's thing.

Right now the "working rig" rack (as opposed to the "projects and experimentals" rack) has the Mark-15's that I "love", and a SK which I "like a lot". The SK is being replaced with a rEVO, as it's more capable.

If I had to choose a SK or a Eagle? Hmmm..... I'd need to decide if I was more likely to do more of one sort of diving than the other. Either rig is likely going to be a good one. You want it today? The SK, as the Eagle is not fully proven and ready. With that said, it's a very logical extension on what Col has been building for years and ought to be a very decent little rig. If you can wait until it's ready for prime time? I'd give it a good look, especially since it's locally made. Bottom line? I want one.

Dave

koputai · 20th March 2007, 23:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

Direct from the horses mouth Colin Said, "digital electronics are "flakey" at best, we will be replacing the digital system with an analog one"

The electronics, both primary and secondary, are digital, and will continue to be digital.

Quote:

also they had not provided a place for a 4th cell, but alluded they may be doing that. Are you or are you not? simple question.

Not now, later if there is a need. What's wrong with that?

Quote:

If the software hangs (assuming its digital and they dont go to analog) the LED can burn green all day and the CCR could be not delivering gas, this is a "bad" alarm,

It's a green flash, if the electronics hang, then flashing will stop, you'll know.

Quote:

again, according to Colin, the backlight sucks juice and will significantly deplete the battery,

Everything is relative. 180 hours BL on, 700 with it off. Hardly something to whinge about.

Quote:

this is however a bad thing for the oxygen side, with 200 bar on the manual inject valve, how much oxygen do you think is going to flow into the rig when one hits the button at depth....

Never dived a schraeder add valve Ron? Yes, the flow will be higher, but it can be controlled, and at least you have the ability to try. Your idea has all your O2 on it's way to the surface.

Quote:

Couldnt get it to light up, cause it required a .4 PO2 to come alive, great for testing the unit right before a trip when you might not have any O2 to run the loop up. (sarcasm added)

You can also turn it on with the button.

Cheers,
Jason.

**Dave Sutton** · 20th March 2007, 23:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD)

One thing I quizzed Kane about was the stiffness of the chassis as that is what will drive the life of the hard fittings and he indicated the chassis was pretty stiff with no flexing so the hard piping should be very reliable. This unit is incredibly neat and tidy inside.

I'm sure the chassis will be rigid, but I don't think that it is an issue for the plumbing. SS lines flex a lot.... more so than you might imagine. I've seen that stuff vibrate like mad in aerospace applications and it's pretty much bulletproof.

This is more or less a 75% scale model Mark-15.5. Same pneumatic system, same electronics architecture, same secondary system, same Schraeder valve system, same 200+BAR pneumatic capability, etc. Nothing wrong with that. And it's avoids the OTS counterlungs that I *hate*.

As Classic Kiss is to Sport Kiss, Mark-15.5 is to Eagle. Good pedigree.

I already use their secondary, primary, and pod, so can vouch for that.

I'm going to order some manual add valves for my Mark-15 to relocate them too.

Col has always been anal about making things SIMPLE, CLEAN, and RELIABLE. I like what he makes. Just my 2 cents as a satisfied customer.

Dave

**Dave Sutton** · 20th March 2007, 23:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by koputai)

It's a green flash, if the electronics hang, then flashing will stop, you'll know..

Thanks Jason, I knew you would know...

(I once indvertantly set my pod to HUD mode, and guess what? My primary acted like a HUD. Cool!)

The thing that I would state, and Jason can confirm, is that since the electronics are doing so little, with such simple code, that a hang is not gonna be a player. This is why I LOVE simple setpoint controllers and leave my deco and all other "all singing and dancing" features to a second dedicated platform.

4th cell is easy to add too. Easier than the Mark-15, which is butt-simple since even I was able to figure it out "all by myself"...

Can you pass the word back to Col & Kane to get me a pair of manual adds for the Mark-15?

Dave

**Dave Sutton** · 21st March 2007, 00:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

pic below of the secondary

Hey! It looks *exactly* like the one on my Mark-15...... !! I opened the port *twice* in a season. Imagine the *work involved*.... (it's a standard regulator plug, BTW, to access the cal button, which is held down to bring the backlight to the "on" mode).

I have been a DELIGHTED user of this secondary, and the primary pod, and the LED primary for rather a while... and I pronounce them *SPLENDID*, as in "I could not be happier".... and I am VERY picky about my gear, as is well known.

Dave

SteveL · 21st March 2007, 05:58

Guys,

Lots of speculation whether this Rebreather is a prettied up version of unit a or unit b

Well to be clear it uses parts from

BP60
BP240
Carlton Cobra
MK15.5

So genetic linage is very impressive. Added to this are some modern electronics that are proving to be very reliable and robust.

All in all a tough little unit. So to be able to get into this linage with out a military or rescue operation price tag is pretty neat.

It will be wet dived in a pool in 2 or 3 weeks with chamber testing to 50m after that - then we are planning ocean dives in steps all the way to the SS Kielawarra (97m / 318ft) if deemed capable by the smucks (me and others) that will be relying on it for life support -

Any other questions just post away - certainly will be keeping you all abreast of the process.

Regards,

SteveL

RonMicjan · 21st March 2007, 06:00

...with a silly grin on my face...

as usual, folks take critisism of their favorite unit/system/procedure like its personal. There are some nice things about the unit, absolutly, I love the braided lines, schrader valves, simple SP controller, but I also dont like the things I mentioned. Just like Fox News, I report, you decide. I took very good notes during the seminar and reported what "The Man" said as well as my impressions of what he said, this is called an opinion, I am entitled, you are too. Next time, buy the plane ticket and come see for yourself.

cheers all (you too dave!)

Im packing up to go diving for the weekend here in AUSTRALIA, y'all can enjoy the cold rainy weather that Im sure you are having. heheheehheheheheheeheh

MHD · 21st March 2007, 08:27

have posted some shots of the Eagle in the gallery

Also have post a shot of the new VR3 screen showing it reading the 3 sensors and the voting logic out put to deco. The bars indicate which cells it's reading, in this case it's reading all 3

Eagle
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3784/cat/40
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3783/cat/40
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3782/cat/40
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3781/cat/40

VR3
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3785/cat/40

20th March 2007, 22:37	#31 (permalink)
S. Marc Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Home Build Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	Re: Colkan Eagle Just an FYI for those guys discussing the restriction in the biopack center section. The BMR 500 center section I have does not at first appear to have a restriction, there is no half moon at all, it is a full circle just over 1 1/4" ID, that is until one puts the scrubber into the center section, and then you get the half moon effect as when the scrubber is seated properly it blocks (rough eyeball measurement) one half of the exhale tube. The O-ring is above the exhale tube and the center section is machined such that the scrubber can go in to a predetermined depth. There are some people (Phi, please don't get upset ) who have dove the BMR in the 300 to 400 fsw range and I have not heard of any reports of problems with WOB. I have heard of a number of people doing sub 150 fsw dives on biopak center sections and have not heard of problems (not to say there weren't any). Just my 2 cents. Marc
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20th March 2007, 23:33	#32 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: Colkan Eagle Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) Direct from the horses mouth Colin Said, "digital electronics are "flakey" at best, we will be replacing the digital system with an analog one" "Again, according to Colin, the backlight sucks juice and will significantly deplete the battery" "this is however a bad thing for the oxygen side, with 200 bar on the manual inject valve, how much oxygen do you think is going to flow into the rig when one hits the button at depth.... Spoken like a true convert to the Meg..... I'll be the first to LOVE analog pods, as my old Rev-G one is the tits... The backlight on the secondary runs fine for about 6 months of regular diving, so dunno how long "significant" is, but... it's not an issue. I'm not a HUD fan, and prefer the original Mark-15 array. There is a MINI-Primary in the works that will place the Mark-15 array in small scale in front of the divers eyes, which is probably better than any flashing HUD system. I get the first one. The Schreader of the manual add valves have such low flow that even at 3000 PSI the flow from them is really pretty normal. See equations for flow of gas thru an orifice... remember sonic flow? So, with all due respect, I think you could stand to give old Col a chance. His stuff has been great in the past, and he's a good guy. I could debate the other points too, but it's not worthwhile. I wouldn't dive a Meg... (not an eCCR one anyhow) so there's an ass for every seat. Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
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20th March 2007, 23:40	#33 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: Colkan Eagle Quote: (Originally Posted by marekm) Hi Dave, If you had to choose between a Sport KISS and a Colkan Eagle, which would you choose and would it be a tough choice? Reason I ask is that I just heard the price of the Eagle versus the SK, and have become very interested in getting one, especially since it will be available relatively locally. -Marek Oh Man.... impossible for me to answer in a quick reply.... Here's the long version: I'll always have an eCCR and a Leaky-Valve CCR on the rack, as I use them differently. There is ZERO DOUBT that for the "hey let's go for a quick dip now" dive that the mCCR is going to win hands down, any day of the week. Easier to set up, and less stress all around. With that said, there is also a mission for the eCCR when I need to work and just want to let the rig do it's thing. Right now the "working rig" rack (as opposed to the "projects and experimentals" rack) has the Mark-15's that I "love", and a SK which I "like a lot". The SK is being replaced with a rEVO, as it's more capable. If I had to choose a SK or a Eagle? Hmmm..... I'd need to decide if I was more likely to do more of one sort of diving than the other. Either rig is likely going to be a good one. You want it today? The SK, as the Eagle is not fully proven and ready. With that said, it's a very logical extension on what Col has been building for years and ought to be a very decent little rig. If you can wait until it's ready for prime time? I'd give it a good look, especially since it's locally made. Bottom line? I want one. Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled. Last edited by Dave Sutton : 20th March 2007 at 23:52.
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20th March 2007, 23:43	#34 (permalink)
koputai Subsea Systems Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 299	Re: Colkan Eagle Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) Direct from the horses mouth Colin Said, "digital electronics are "flakey" at best, we will be replacing the digital system with an analog one" The electronics, both primary and secondary, are digital, and will continue to be digital. Quote: also they had not provided a place for a 4th cell, but alluded they may be doing that. Are you or are you not? simple question. Not now, later if there is a need. What's wrong with that? Quote: If the software hangs (assuming its digital and they dont go to analog) the LED can burn green all day and the CCR could be not delivering gas, this is a "bad" alarm, It's a green flash, if the electronics hang, then flashing will stop, you'll know. Quote: again, according to Colin, the backlight sucks juice and will significantly deplete the battery, Everything is relative. 180 hours BL on, 700 with it off. Hardly something to whinge about. Quote: this is however a bad thing for the oxygen side, with 200 bar on the manual inject valve, how much oxygen do you think is going to flow into the rig when one hits the button at depth.... Never dived a schraeder add valve Ron? Yes, the flow will be higher, but it can be controlled, and at least you have the ability to try. Your idea has all your O2 on it's way to the surface. Quote: Couldnt get it to light up, cause it required a .4 PO2 to come alive, great for testing the unit right before a trip when you might not have any O2 to run the loop up. (sarcasm added) You can also turn it on with the button. Cheers, Jason.
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20th March 2007, 23:45	#35 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: Colkan Eagle Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD) One thing I quizzed Kane about was the stiffness of the chassis as that is what will drive the life of the hard fittings and he indicated the chassis was pretty stiff with no flexing so the hard piping should be very reliable. This unit is incredibly neat and tidy inside. I'm sure the chassis will be rigid, but I don't think that it is an issue for the plumbing. SS lines flex a lot.... more so than you might imagine. I've seen that stuff vibrate like mad in aerospace applications and it's pretty much bulletproof. This is more or less a 75% scale model Mark-15.5. Same pneumatic system, same electronics architecture, same secondary system, same Schraeder valve system, same 200+BAR pneumatic capability, etc. Nothing wrong with that. And it's avoids the OTS counterlungs that I hate. As Classic Kiss is to Sport Kiss, Mark-15.5 is to Eagle. Good pedigree. I already use their secondary, primary, and pod, so can vouch for that. I'm going to order some manual add valves for my Mark-15 to relocate them too. Col has always been anal about making things SIMPLE, CLEAN, and RELIABLE. I like what he makes. Just my 2 cents as a satisfied customer. Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled. Last edited by Dave Sutton : 20th March 2007 at 23:49.
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20th March 2007, 23:56	#36 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: Colkan Eagle Quote: (Originally Posted by koputai) It's a green flash, if the electronics hang, then flashing will stop, you'll know.. Thanks Jason, I knew you would know... (I once indvertantly set my pod to HUD mode, and guess what? My primary acted like a HUD. Cool!) The thing that I would state, and Jason can confirm, is that since the electronics are doing so little, with such simple code, that a hang is not gonna be a player. This is why I LOVE simple setpoint controllers and leave my deco and all other "all singing and dancing" features to a second dedicated platform. 4th cell is easy to add too. Easier than the Mark-15, which is butt-simple since even I was able to figure it out "all by myself"... Can you pass the word back to Col & Kane to get me a pair of manual adds for the Mark-15? Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
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21st March 2007, 00:01	#37 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: Colkan Eagle Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) pic below of the secondary Hey! It looks exactly like the one on my Mark-15...... !! I opened the port twice in a season. Imagine the work involved.... (it's a standard regulator plug, BTW, to access the cal button, which is held down to bring the backlight to the "on" mode). I have been a DELIGHTED user of this secondary, and the primary pod, and the LED primary for rather a while... and I pronounce them SPLENDID, as in "I could not be happier".... and I am VERY picky about my gear, as is well known. Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled. Last edited by Dave Sutton : 21st March 2007 at 00:05.
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21st March 2007, 05:58	#38 (permalink)
SteveL Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 221	Re: Colkan Eagle Guys, Lots of speculation whether this Rebreather is a prettied up version of unit a or unit b Well to be clear it uses parts from BP60 BP240 Carlton Cobra MK15.5 So genetic linage is very impressive. Added to this are some modern electronics that are proving to be very reliable and robust. All in all a tough little unit. So to be able to get into this linage with out a military or rescue operation price tag is pretty neat. It will be wet dived in a pool in 2 or 3 weeks with chamber testing to 50m after that - then we are planning ocean dives in steps all the way to the SS Kielawarra (97m / 318ft) if deemed capable by the smucks (me and others) that will be relying on it for life support - Any other questions just post away - certainly will be keeping you all abreast of the process. Regards, SteveL
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21st March 2007, 06:00	#39 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,081	Re: Colkan Eagle ...with a silly grin on my face... as usual, folks take critisism of their favorite unit/system/procedure like its personal. There are some nice things about the unit, absolutly, I love the braided lines, schrader valves, simple SP controller, but I also dont like the things I mentioned. Just like Fox News, I report, you decide. I took very good notes during the seminar and reported what "The Man" said as well as my impressions of what he said, this is called an opinion, I am entitled, you are too. Next time, buy the plane ticket and come see for yourself. cheers all (you too dave!) Im packing up to go diving for the weekend here in AUSTRALIA, y'all can enjoy the cold rainy weather that Im sure you are having. heheheehheheheheheeheh __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
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21st March 2007, 08:27	#40 (permalink)
MHD Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia Posts: 235	Re: Colkan Eagle have posted some shots of the Eagle in the gallery Also have post a shot of the new VR3 screen showing it reading the 3 sensors and the voting logic out put to deco. The bars indicate which cells it's reading, in this case it's reading all 3 Eagle http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3784/cat/40 http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3783/cat/40 http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3782/cat/40 http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3781/cat/40 VR3 http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...to/3785/cat/40 Last edited by MHD : 21st March 2007 at 08:35.
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