Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop)

LakeLover · 27th February 2007, 15:30

Great Post! I liked your personal spin on what you liked, and what you did not. These things are all so well fielded you probably couldn't REALY go wrong anyhow. Not like you bought an experimental unit that flys on garden Lime.

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 27th February 2007, 15:35

A couple of points to clear up:

Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith)

Optima: Guy started out telling us about every thing that was changing on the unit... BIG RED FLAG TO ME

All of the units come out with upgrades over time as technology improves. (Is the Inspiration the same unit today that it was years ago?) I would be worried about a company that stubbornly refuses to change the design when it could be improved. I am sure that all units on the market will come out with revisions, upgrades, and will add/change components over time. That is a good thing, not a bad one. So, don't be surprised to hear that there are changes coming around the corner.

The important thing is that Dive Rite, in my experience, is a company that will be fair and reasonable in its dealings with you regarding changes and upgrades. For example, the price to have Dive Rite make the upgrade to the FX was recently posted here, and it is quite reasonable. That says it all to me.

Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith)

. . most parts Out sourced. they were not even responsible for Scrubber.

Another way of putting this is that the unit was built around the scrubber that is made by a company that manufactures scrubber for its livelihood (and sells it, among its other customers, to the military). I previously posted an video interview with Dive Rite and Micropore reprsentatives that specifically raises this. Again, a good thing, not a bad one if you consider the scrubber to be an important component of your CCR.

This collaboration idea is also the thinking that went into other unit components. As the web site says: "The O2ptima was designed by a collaboration of diving experts; combining the benefits of the FarallonUSA designed breathing loop, the Micropore designed ExtendAir cartridge based CO2 scrubber, Dive Rite's proven regulators and buoyancy control systems, and the Hammerhead closed circuit, mixed gas controller and decompression computer from Juergensen Marine."

**Monkey** · 27th February 2007, 15:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

A couple of points to clear up:

All of the units come out with upgrades over time as technology improves. (Is the Inspiration the same unit today that it was years ago?) I would be worried about a company that stubbornly refuses to change the design when it could be improved. I am sure that all units on the market will come out with revisions, upgrades, and will add/change components over time. That is a good thing, not a bad one. So, don't be surprised to hear that there are changes coming around the corner.

The important thing is that Dive Rite, in my experience, is a company that will be fair and reasonable in its dealings with you regarding changes and upgrades. For example, the price to have Dive Rite make the upgrade to the FX was recently posted here, and it is quite reasonable. That says it all to me.

Another way of putting this is that the unit was built around the scrubber that is made by a company that manufactures scrubber for its livelihood (and sells it, among its other customers, to the military). I previously posted an video interview with Dive Rite and Micropore reprsentatives that specifically raises this. Again, a good thing, not a bad one if you consider the scrubber to be an important component of your CCR.

This collaboration idea is also the thinking that went into other unit components. As the web site says: "The O2ptima was designed by a collaboration of diving experts; combining the benefits of the FarallonUSA designed breathing loop, the Micropore designed ExtendAir cartridge based CO2 scrubber, Dive Rite's proven regulators and buoyancy control systems, and the Hammerhead closed circuit, mixed gas controller and decompression computer from Juergensen Marine."

this is one of those things that can be argued ether way.... in my line of work I rarely get any thing done well when I out source it.... but then again we never would have made it to the moon if it were not for suppliers...

I see you point.... and we can get into a spirited debate when I see you on the boat this week end.....

RobPot · 27th February 2007, 21:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith)

Here is what I have learned from this thread......

1: I NEED TO TRY A PROPERLY SET UP KISS CLASSIC AND KISS SPORT...
2: The 20P remark shows he has an emotional connection to his machine, and that’s the guy I want to get in the water with. His heart is in it... and that good...
(blah blah)
So which one of you KISS people is going to offer up another test drive?

Sorry again! I didn't really want to defend any one type against any other (but I think you'll find that most people who have spent a sizeable amount of money on a toy will defend their choice!) Heigh ho, feel free to come across to the UK and come for a dive with my rebreather that I feel is properly set up for me!

Robert

***jradomski*** · 27th February 2007, 22:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by bambang)

Optima: Guy started out telling us about every thing that was changing on the unit... BIG RED FLAG TO ME.. hand set updates,frame changes, most parts Out sourced. they were not even responsible for Scrubber. this made me feel it was way over priced... and the quantity of changes he said were coming led me to believe the unit was still being BETA tested with users as the Test pilots... there were heavy tool marks on all the Delrin parts, so they looked cheap. Loved the loop volume... loved the scrubber cartrige... felt the Hammer Head was the only fire tested piece of hardware on it.

Yes, I completely agree with your opinion regarding this particular unit above.

Over the years I have had the opertunity to dive (and own) many units.. The ones that haven't had any changes are now all gone from production.

The KISS units have both undergone multiple upgrades and changes, as have the Inpiration, Meg and Ouroboris so why just pick on the o2ptima??
Not picking on any particular unit, but lets use the meg as an example..

original units came with neorpren cl, now they ship with cordura with neopren as an option, they have had SMithers/juergenson electronics, shearwater, apeks 1 and apeks 2.., the t pieces have gone through several revisions as have the DSV and ADV.. The hose connections and C-l connections have changed as well.. The current Meg is quite different from the earlier megs..

The KISSes have had several different DSV, hose connections and po2 monitors... I gan go on with just about every current rig..

The original o2ptima was a good first release, all the changes I see on the o2ptima are refinements based on customer feedback.. Out of the entire rig the weakest point in my opinion is the DSV..

The HH electronics are always undergoing refinements and upgrades.. KJ takes great pride in his product and is always trying to improve it and listens to customer suggestions..

lof · 28th February 2007, 12:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith)

GOLEM GEAR: Man oh Man are they gonna get way to much of my money...
there BOV was engineered and built like Bugatti was in the old day...
the feel of there BOV in the hand, it generated LUST..
you could tell that the stuff they build is built the way it is because their live depends on it as well as yours...

BAM

Never knew our BOVs were so sexy. I'll never look at it the same way when I put it in my mouth

Thanks for feedback. It was great meeting this new group of budding Rebreather divers.

**diver1369** · 28th February 2007, 13:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith)

Here is what I have learned from this thread......

1: I NEED TO TRY A PROPERLY SET UP KISS CLASSIC AND KISS SPORT...
2: The 20P remark shows he has an emotional connection to his machine, and that’s the guy I want to get in the water with. His heart is in it... and that good. Do you really want to go deep with the guy who hearts into needle point?

I also learned I was not clear enough it letting this group understand one simple thing..

I welcome heavy criticism.... being politically correct and diplomatic in my book means it going to take me 10 times as long to get the information I need to keep me alive...

I know nothing.. I have no time in the water on the loop.... please smack me down when I talk out my ass you will end up saving my life.

I read some where on this board a quote that I have posted on the door of my wet room where I keep all my SCUBA Gear..

"Its a shame that stupidity is not painful"

so guys I am asking for your personal opinions.. Just because I am highly opinionated does not mean I am not willing to change my opinions or learn.

Lean something. Is that not what we are all here to do?

So witch one of you KISS people is going to offer up another test drive?

BAM

Given the turmoil that has recently rocked this on-line community over our treatment of one another on-line, and Stuart's thoughtful way of handling it, I feel that we have here an opportunity to all learn something. I want to congraulate BAM on his handling of a reply that could have been taken as somewhat insulting. He ignored the insulting bit and replied in a very constructive way and thereby turned the thread back into a positive exchange of views by all concerned. As an infrequent poster, I don't think I can give 'green' to anyone, but someone who can should give BAM a green blob. His on-line behaviour in this instance shows us how to maximize the value of Rebreather World. Thanks, BAM.

John

**diver1369** · 28th February 2007, 13:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by lof)

Never knew our BOVs were so sexy. I'll never look at it the same way when I put it in my mouth

Thanks for feedback. It was great meeting this new group of budding Rebreather divers.

And Jakub, all of your engineered products are sexy. Can't wait for my radial scrubber...

john

**jepuskar** · 28th February 2007, 13:52

The BOV was nice, the scrubber was cool....but THAT heated vest for drysuit divers....I'm all over that once it's released.

**Monkey** · 28th February 2007, 14:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by diver1369)

Given the turmoil that has recently rocked this on-line community over our treatment of one another on-line, and Stuart's thoughtful way of handling it, I feel that we have here an opportunity to all learn something. I want to congraulate BAM on his handling of a reply that could have been taken as somewhat insulting. He ignored the insulting bit and replied in a very constructive way and thereby turned the thread back into a positive exchange of views by all concerned. As an infrequent poster, I don't think I can give 'green' to anyone, but someone who can should give BAM a green blob. His on-line behaviour in this instance shows us how to maximize the value of Rebreather World. Thanks, BAM.

John

Thanks very much for this response..... this is the kind of community I want to be a part of... and the Green "blob" is Cool but I have no idea what the Green "blob" is.... is it some thing I am supposed to put on my MEG when it gets here?

27th February 2007, 15:30	#31 (permalink)
LakeLover New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Northern New York Posts: 72	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Great Post! I liked your personal spin on what you liked, and what you did not. These things are all so well fielded you probably couldn't REALY go wrong anyhow. Not like you bought an experimental unit that flys on garden Lime.
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 15:35	#32 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,075	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) A couple of points to clear up: Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith) Optima: Guy started out telling us about every thing that was changing on the unit... BIG RED FLAG TO ME All of the units come out with upgrades over time as technology improves. (Is the Inspiration the same unit today that it was years ago?) I would be worried about a company that stubbornly refuses to change the design when it could be improved. I am sure that all units on the market will come out with revisions, upgrades, and will add/change components over time. That is a good thing, not a bad one. So, don't be surprised to hear that there are changes coming around the corner. The important thing is that Dive Rite, in my experience, is a company that will be fair and reasonable in its dealings with you regarding changes and upgrades. For example, the price to have Dive Rite make the upgrade to the FX was recently posted here, and it is quite reasonable. That says it all to me. Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith) . . most parts Out sourced. they were not even responsible for Scrubber. Another way of putting this is that the unit was built around the scrubber that is made by a company that manufactures scrubber for its livelihood (and sells it, among its other customers, to the military). I previously posted an video interview with Dive Rite and Micropore reprsentatives that specifically raises this. Again, a good thing, not a bad one if you consider the scrubber to be an important component of your CCR. This collaboration idea is also the thinking that went into other unit components. As the web site says: "The O2ptima was designed by a collaboration of diving experts; combining the benefits of the FarallonUSA designed breathing loop, the Micropore designed ExtendAir cartridge based CO2 scrubber, Dive Rite's proven regulators and buoyancy control systems, and the Hammerhead closed circuit, mixed gas controller and decompression computer from Juergensen Marine." __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
(Online)

27th February 2007, 15:49	#33 (permalink)
Monkey Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lauderdale By The Sea Florida Posts: 400	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) A couple of points to clear up: All of the units come out with upgrades over time as technology improves. (Is the Inspiration the same unit today that it was years ago?) I would be worried about a company that stubbornly refuses to change the design when it could be improved. I am sure that all units on the market will come out with revisions, upgrades, and will add/change components over time. That is a good thing, not a bad one. So, don't be surprised to hear that there are changes coming around the corner. The important thing is that Dive Rite, in my experience, is a company that will be fair and reasonable in its dealings with you regarding changes and upgrades. For example, the price to have Dive Rite make the upgrade to the FX was recently posted here, and it is quite reasonable. That says it all to me. Another way of putting this is that the unit was built around the scrubber that is made by a company that manufactures scrubber for its livelihood (and sells it, among its other customers, to the military). I previously posted an video interview with Dive Rite and Micropore reprsentatives that specifically raises this. Again, a good thing, not a bad one if you consider the scrubber to be an important component of your CCR. This collaboration idea is also the thinking that went into other unit components. As the web site says: "The O2ptima was designed by a collaboration of diving experts; combining the benefits of the FarallonUSA designed breathing loop, the Micropore designed ExtendAir cartridge based CO2 scrubber, Dive Rite's proven regulators and buoyancy control systems, and the Hammerhead closed circuit, mixed gas controller and decompression computer from Juergensen Marine." this is one of those things that can be argued ether way.... in my line of work I rarely get any thing done well when I out source it.... but then again we never would have made it to the moon if it were not for suppliers... I see you point.... and we can get into a spirited debate when I see you on the boat this week end.....
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 21:59	#34 (permalink)
RobPot Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portishead - Gateway to the South West Posts: 180	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith) Here is what I have learned from this thread...... 1: I NEED TO TRY A PROPERLY SET UP KISS CLASSIC AND KISS SPORT... 2: The 20P remark shows he has an emotional connection to his machine, and that’s the guy I want to get in the water with. His heart is in it... and that good... (blah blah) So which one of you KISS people is going to offer up another test drive? Sorry again! I didn't really want to defend any one type against any other (but I think you'll find that most people who have spent a sizeable amount of money on a toy will defend their choice!) Heigh ho, feel free to come across to the UK and come for a dive with my rebreather that I feel is properly set up for me! Robert
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 22:23	#35 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,898	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by bambang) Optima: Guy started out telling us about every thing that was changing on the unit... BIG RED FLAG TO ME.. hand set updates,frame changes, most parts Out sourced. they were not even responsible for Scrubber. this made me feel it was way over priced... and the quantity of changes he said were coming led me to believe the unit was still being BETA tested with users as the Test pilots... there were heavy tool marks on all the Delrin parts, so they looked cheap. Loved the loop volume... loved the scrubber cartrige... felt the Hammer Head was the only fire tested piece of hardware on it. Yes, I completely agree with your opinion regarding this particular unit above. Over the years I have had the opertunity to dive (and own) many units.. The ones that haven't had any changes are now all gone from production. The KISS units have both undergone multiple upgrades and changes, as have the Inpiration, Meg and Ouroboris so why just pick on the o2ptima?? Not picking on any particular unit, but lets use the meg as an example.. original units came with neorpren cl, now they ship with cordura with neopren as an option, they have had SMithers/juergenson electronics, shearwater, apeks 1 and apeks 2.., the t pieces have gone through several revisions as have the DSV and ADV.. The hose connections and C-l connections have changed as well.. The current Meg is quite different from the earlier megs.. The KISSes have had several different DSV, hose connections and po2 monitors... I gan go on with just about every current rig.. The original o2ptima was a good first release, all the changes I see on the o2ptima are refinements based on customer feedback.. Out of the entire rig the weakest point in my opinion is the DSV.. The HH electronics are always undergoing refinements and upgrades.. KJ takes great pride in his product and is always trying to improve it and listens to customer suggestions.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Online)

28th February 2007, 12:47	#36 (permalink)
lof RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 479	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith) GOLEM GEAR: Man oh Man are they gonna get way to much of my money... there BOV was engineered and built like Bugatti was in the old day... the feel of there BOV in the hand, it generated LUST.. you could tell that the stuff they build is built the way it is because their live depends on it as well as yours... BAM Never knew our BOVs were so sexy. I'll never look at it the same way when I put it in my mouth Thanks for feedback. It was great meeting this new group of budding Rebreather divers. __________________ Jakub Golem Gear ShopKeeper www.golemgear.com
(Offline)

28th February 2007, 13:05	#37 (permalink)
diver1369 Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 78	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by dartagnansmith) Here is what I have learned from this thread...... 1: I NEED TO TRY A PROPERLY SET UP KISS CLASSIC AND KISS SPORT... 2: The 20P remark shows he has an emotional connection to his machine, and that’s the guy I want to get in the water with. His heart is in it... and that good. Do you really want to go deep with the guy who hearts into needle point? I also learned I was not clear enough it letting this group understand one simple thing.. I welcome heavy criticism.... being politically correct and diplomatic in my book means it going to take me 10 times as long to get the information I need to keep me alive... I know nothing.. I have no time in the water on the loop.... please smack me down when I talk out my ass you will end up saving my life. I read some where on this board a quote that I have posted on the door of my wet room where I keep all my SCUBA Gear.. "Its a shame that stupidity is not painful" so guys I am asking for your personal opinions.. Just because I am highly opinionated does not mean I am not willing to change my opinions or learn. Lean something. Is that not what we are all here to do? So witch one of you KISS people is going to offer up another test drive? BAM Given the turmoil that has recently rocked this on-line community over our treatment of one another on-line, and Stuart's thoughtful way of handling it, I feel that we have here an opportunity to all learn something. I want to congraulate BAM on his handling of a reply that could have been taken as somewhat insulting. He ignored the insulting bit and replied in a very constructive way and thereby turned the thread back into a positive exchange of views by all concerned. As an infrequent poster, I don't think I can give 'green' to anyone, but someone who can should give BAM a green blob. His on-line behaviour in this instance shows us how to maximize the value of Rebreather World. Thanks, BAM. John
(Offline)

28th February 2007, 13:07	#38 (permalink)
diver1369 Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 78	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by lof) Never knew our BOVs were so sexy. I'll never look at it the same way when I put it in my mouth Thanks for feedback. It was great meeting this new group of budding Rebreather divers. And Jakub, all of your engineered products are sexy. Can't wait for my radial scrubber... john
(Offline)

28th February 2007, 13:52	#39 (permalink)
jepuskar NA Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 397	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) The BOV was nice, the scrubber was cool....but THAT heated vest for drysuit divers....I'm all over that once it's released.
(Offline)

28th February 2007, 14:29	#40 (permalink)
Monkey Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lauderdale By The Sea Florida Posts: 400	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by diver1369) Given the turmoil that has recently rocked this on-line community over our treatment of one another on-line, and Stuart's thoughtful way of handling it, I feel that we have here an opportunity to all learn something. I want to congraulate BAM on his handling of a reply that could have been taken as somewhat insulting. He ignored the insulting bit and replied in a very constructive way and thereby turned the thread back into a positive exchange of views by all concerned. As an infrequent poster, I don't think I can give 'green' to anyone, but someone who can should give BAM a green blob. His on-line behaviour in this instance shows us how to maximize the value of Rebreather World. Thanks, BAM. John Thanks very much for this response..... this is the kind of community I want to be a part of... and the Green "blob" is Cool but I have no idea what the Green "blob" is.... is it some thing I am supposed to put on my MEG when it gets here?
(Offline)

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